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Bible Study Trinity Evidence All False

Eve you said

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
_________________
I know his word is true

I said
Once you understand that this is talking about living with Christ for His thousand year reign you can see it means to live with Him a thousand years. There will be no one to rule over. And we will be in subjection to Christ authority. We will still be submissive.

Rev 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
(NKJ)
 
liafailrock you said
you cannot logically deduce from this passage alone that only God the Father will reign. Rather, we are all subordinate to Him--- that's different than a slave status for us.

I said
I never said that. I said

That is just not so. We will never rule or reign, we will always be subservients. We will be subservients to Christ and the Father.

1 Cor 15:24-26
24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.
(NKJ)
 
It's absolutely amazing that someone can quote something that's IN the Bible, and then SB will override it and say, "No, that's not the way it is. THIS is the way it is." He does it time and time again.

Most recent case? Revelation 20:6 was quoted as a passage stating that those who have a part in the resurrection will reign with Christ. And what does Squeaky say?

Squeakybro said:
That is just not so. We will never rule or reign, we will always be subservients. We will be subservients to Christ and the Father.

I'm amazed that people are still responding to this person. Once again, he has done this on virtually every Christian bulletin board he is a member of.

Once again, for your viewing pleasure:

http://theologyweb.com/forum/showthread ... ge=1&pp=16

http://www.kingdomlife.com/phpBB2/viewt ... f18fdd4207

http://66.148.41.31/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000030.html

http://www.cog7.org/ubbpub/Forum13/HTML/000074.html

http://tfebbs.7times.us/php2/viewtopic. ... ce54e479b9

http://www.network54.com/Forum/message? ... 1066655098

http://www.network54.com/Forum/message? ... 1059342798

http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/archiv ... 38835.html


There will never be any "Bible Study" or engaging discussion with this person. He obviously has his own agenda, which he has been pushing for years (check the dates of the above links).

People, please take a hint. YOU WILL NOT CONVINCE HIM OF ANYTHING. Leave him to the Lord to deal with, and let his threads slip into oblivion by not responding to them.
 
Squeakybro said:
Once you understand that this is talking about living with Christ for His thousand year reign you can see it means to live with Him a thousand years. There will be no one to rule over. And we will be in subjection to Christ authority. We will still be submissive.

Well, Squeakybro, I get this feeling that this topic can get very divergent. When we are talking about the reign of Christ, this starts with the millennium where there is a reign of Christ on this Earth. Not all Christians believe that. However, if one does take that position (as I do), then there are real people that make it past that terrible time called the Tribulation that will enter the Kingdom. These are the people of all Isarel and people from the kingdoms of this Earth who will submit to Christ's rule. However, if you do not take that position, then this topic can be bandied about quite a bit.

But before we even think about this topic of the Kingdom, I must admit that Jesus Christ himself quotes the Messianic Psalm 2 as applying to the overcoming believer in Revelation 2:26-27 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

That's pretty clear and straightforward--- this is not allegory or symbolism as evidenced by the context.

I'd be interested how you would answer my two earlier questions.
 
Vice:

I hear you. But I get into these conversations because if someone believes differently than I, I can then find out if I have a scriptural comeback. It is really a learning experience and reinforcing what I learned for myself. I have yet to convince anyone of anything and the same can be said of someone else convincing me regarding major doctrinal issues. This, of course, is not true with minor, debatable items in which case if someone has a better view on it (and I did little scriptural study on that topic) I may lean toward what they believe. I believe most people enter forums because they already made up their minds, unless they participate on a "questions" thread where they are still seeking answers to something they do not know or made their minds up about yet.

But already I sense this topic can get quite divergent and there is not the time to debate everything.
 
Vice you said

Most recent case? Revelation 20:6 was quoted as a passage stating that those who have a part in the resurrection will reign with Christ. And what does Squeaky say?

Squeakybro wrote:

That is just not so. We will never rule or reign, we will always be subservients. We will be subservients to Christ and the Father.

I said
Take another look I was refering to the "will not rule" portion, and you refer to the reign portion. We will not rule over anyone. Christ and the Father will rule over us. It appears you have alittle bitterness in you and just looking for something to argue about.

Matt 23:24
24 "Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!
(NKJ)
 
squeaky Shown false again

God Manifest in the Flesh!

Throughout the New Testament we find the remarkable claim by the disciples that Jesus of Nazareth is God in the flesh.

Before the ministry of Jesus even commenced there were those that recognized the deity of Jesus.

When Mary, the mother of Jesus, was told by an angel that she would conceive the Messiah in her womb, she was also told that Elisabeth, her relative, was with child. Mary arose immediately and went to visit Elisabeth to share the wonderful news. In Luke, chapter one, we read the remarkable declaration of Elisabeth regarding the child in Mary’s womb:

"And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost. And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, ‘Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?’" Luke 1:41-43 (KJV)

"The mother of my Lord!" Elisabeth recognized the greatness of the child in Mary’s womb and the fact that this child is the very Lord of the universe!

Apparently, Elisabeth taught her son well. Thirty years later John the Baptist, Elisabeth’s son, was drawing great multitudes to his message of repentance and forgiveness of sins. News of his ministry reached the Pharisees, and so a delegation was sent to John to ask him who he was. The response of John is recorded in all four Gospels.

In the Gospel of John we read the details of this inquiry:

"Now this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, ‘Who are you?’ He confessed, and did not deny, but confessed, ‘I am not the Christ. And they asked him, ‘What then? Are you Elijah?’ He said, ‘I am not.’ ‘Are you the Prophet?’ And he answered, ‘No.’ Then they said to him, ‘Who are you, that we may give an answer to those who sent us? What do you say about yourself? He said: ‘I am ‘The voice of one crying in the wilderness: Make straight the way of the LORD,’ as the prophet Isaiah said.’" John 1:19-23 (NKJ)

In his statement John tells us plainly that he is quoting the prophet Isaiah and that his ministry was to go before the LORD, to make His way straight. The casual reader might continue on and miss an incredible insight placed in the book of Isaiah by the Holy Spirit.

In John 1:19-23 John the Baptist claimed that he was ‘The voice of one crying in the wilderness: Make straight the way of the LORD,’ as the prophet Isaiah said.’" It turns out that John is quoting Isaiah 40:3. In this verse the prophet Isaiah speaks of a time when another prophet, yet future, would be,

"The voice of one crying in the wilderness: ‘Prepare the way of the LORD; make straight in the desert a highway for our God.’" (NKJ)

In the text of Isaiah 40:3 the word LORD is again the English translation for the Hebrew word Yahweh.

John the Baptist was claiming that he was going before and making straight the path for Yahweh, the very Creator of the universe! However, in the next few verses we see unequivocally that John was speaking of Jesus of Nazareth, the one whose path he was making straight;

"And they which were sent were of the Pharisees. And they asked him, and said unto him, ‘Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?’ John answered them, saying, ‘I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.’ These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing. The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, ‘Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.’" John 1:24-30 (KJV)

In these verses John identifies Jesus as the One whom he preceded, the One "whose shoe’s latchet [he is] not worthy to unloose," the One who Isaiah said was Yahweh!

The disciple’s belief that Jesus was indeed God, "manifest in the flesh," is unequivocally proclaimed by the Apostle Paul in I Timothy 3:16:

"And without controversy great is the mystery of Godliness. God was manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among the gentiles, believed on in the world, and received up in glory." I Timothy 3:16 (KJV)

When was God "received up in glory?" In the book of the Acts of the Apostles, chapter one, Jesus of Nazareth ascended into heaven from the mount of Olives forty days after his resurrection. Skeptical? Read on.



The Feet of God!

In the book of the prophet Zechariah, written at least four hundred years before the birth of Jesus, we are given a glimpse of the last days:

"Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south." Zechariah 14:3-4 (KJV)

In this portion of Scripture we are told that Yahweh ("LORD") will manifest himself in time and space in a body with feet and stand on the mount of Olives.

In the book of the Acts of the Apostles, the identity of this person is further clarified in chapter one. The scene depicted is forty days after the resurrection of Jesus. He has just told His disciples that He is going to send the Holy Spirit. In the very next verse we read:

"And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, ‘Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.’ Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a Sabbath day’s journey." Acts 1:9-11 (KJV)

This is another one of those places where a casual reading of the text fails to uncover an astonishing nugget which reveals the supernatural engineering of the biblical text.

In Acts, chapter one, the scene is the ascension of Jesus Christ into heaven. Can you imagine the look on the disciples faces as they watched this event. As they are staring in awe, two angels (men in white apparel) tell the disciples that Jesus’ return will be, in effect, a re-run of His ascension into heaven. Then the Holy Spirit inspired Luke, the author of Acts, to insert a seemingly insignificant commentary that they returned "unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet."

In other words, when Jesus comes a second time, He will descend from heaven and set His feet on the place from where He ascended – the mount of Olives!

The Book of Zechariah states that this event will be accomplished through a physical manifestation of Yahweh. The New Testament says it’s Jesus. Either we have an irreconcilable contradiction, or Jesus and Yahweh must be One and the same!



"Thou Shalt Worship No Other God"

The claims of Jesus’ disciples leave little doubt that they believed He was indeed, "God manifested in the flesh." This shared belief is further supported by the fact that they willingly worshipped Him as God.

In Matthew’s Gospel we read the story of the Magi – the wise men – who came to honor the baby Jesus whom they believed was the "King of the Jews."

"And after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the east came to Jerusalem saying, ‘Where is He who has been King of the Jews, for we have seen His star in the east and have come to worship Him.’" Matthew 2:1-2 (NKJ)

The Greek word for worship is "proskuneo," The literal meaning of this word is to fall on your face, prostrate on the ground, and to kiss at the feet of an individual. These magi wanted to worship the Messiah.

Later in the Gospel of Matthew, we read the story about the day that Jesus walked on water. Jesus instructed His disciples to go ahead of Him and cross over the sea in a boat. Late that evening a storm arose and Jesus decided to take a short-cut. So, He simply walked on the sea to meet the His disciples at the boat in the midst of the sea! The disciples, believing they had seen a spirit, "were troubled," to say the least.

Once Jesus identified Himself, Peter decided to try his hand at walking on water. However, when he took his eyes off Jesus, Peter began to sink. Then Matthew’s Gospel states, "then those who were in the boat came and worshipped Jesus, saying, ‘Truly you are the Son of God.’"

In the Book of Job we are given a little nugget that helps clarify the identity of Jesus and why the disciples worshipped Him. Speaking of God, Job states, "He alone, spreads out the Heavens and treads on the waves of the sea." The word "treads" literally means to walk upon.

No wonder they worshipped Jesus! They must have thought to themselves, "Only God can walk on water."

The worship of Jesus was not a trivial matter. In fact, the Pharisees rebuked Him for receiving such worship. The reason is found in the book of Deuteronomy;

"And it shall be, if thou do at all forget the LORD thy God, and walk after other gods, and serve them, and worship them, I testify against you this day that ye shall surely perish." Deuteronomy 8:19 (KJV)

To worship anything (literally to prostrate one’s self) other than Yahweh was a sin punishable by death. Consequently, if Jesus was not God then these men were guilty of blasphemy.



The Claim’s of Christ

Without a doubt, the claims of Jesus are the most radical, the most exclusive, the most offensive, and the most divisive claims ever made by any man. Through the ages there have been many religious leaders that have made remarkable claims about their teachings, their identity or their relationship to God. Many have claimed to be a way to God. Some have claimed that their words contained eternal truths which, if applied to one’s life, could bring happiness or great fulfillment. Some have claimed to be the Messiah and some have even dared to claim that they were gods. The claims of Jesus are even more radical.

During his ministry, in clear and certain terms, Jesus claimed to be the Son of God, the Messiah of Israel, and on numerous occasions He even declared equality with God. He declared that He speaks the very words of God and He claimed to be the only way to eternal life. Such claims were not only too much for the scribes and Pharisees to handle, they were the major reason that they wanted Jesus dead.



"Do You Believe in the Son of God?"

There are those who say that Jesus of Nazareth never claimed to be the Son of God. On the other hand, one of the reasons that modern rabbis reject the messianic claim of Jesus is because He did claim this title. Their contention is that the Messiah is just a man, and not the Son of God. Therefore, Jesus could not be the Messiah. However, when the beliefs of the ancient Jewish rabbis are examined in detail, we find that they did, indeed, believe that the Messiah is the Son of God.

Jesus’ claim to be the Son of God is found throughout the four Gospel accounts, but none more clearly than in the Gospel of John. In chapter nine we read the story of a man, blind since birth, who was healed by Jesus at the Temple of God. After the Pharisees accused him of faking the recovery of his sight, he was thrown out of the Temple and was found again by Jesus.

"Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when He had found him, He said to him, ‘Do you believe in the Son of God?’ He answered and said, ‘Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?’ And Jesus said to him, ‘You have both seen Him and it is He who is talking with you.’" John 9:35-37 (NKJ)



"Messiah… Who is Called Christ"

The Messiah (Anointed One), the coming redeemer of Israel, has been the hope of every Jew for thousands of years. Arguably, the dominant theme of the Tanakh (Old Testament) was to foretell the birth, lineage, mission and destiny of this Redeemer, the "King Messiah." In fact, the Babylonian Talmud states:

"All the prophets prophesied only of the days of Messiah." Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 99a

In the Old Testament, there are literally hundreds of messianic prophecies which foretell nearly every aspect of the Messiah’s life, mission and destiny. During His life, Jesus of Nazareth fulfilled over three-hundred prophecies that were definitely recognized by ancient Jews as messianic. From His humble birth in the city of Bethlehem to His suffering and cruel death,, from His rejection by Israel to His acceptance by the gentile world, it was all foretold hundreds of years before His birth.

Despite impeccable "credentials," the messianic claim of Jesus was ultimately rejected by the leadership in Israel. To many, the rejection of Jesus by the leadership of Israel is evidence enough that He was not the Messiah. "After all," the skeptic argues, "shouldn’t the learned men of Israel, the scribes and the Pharisees, recognize the Messiah when He comes?" To the biblically naïve this argument seems reasonable. However, when the Messiah’s mission is examined in the light of the Old Testament prophecies, we discover that His suffering, rejection and death are, in fact, the fulfillment of a supernatural plan devised before the creation of our space-time domain!

There is no doubt that Jesus took upon Himself the title of Messiah in numerous places in the four Gospel narratives. However, His messianic claim was usually affirmed in response to an inquiry about His personal identity or a discussion about the Messiah in the third person.

For example, in John, chapter four, we read the story of a Samaritan woman that Jesus met at Jacob’s well. This meeting was remarkable because, as the woman noted, " Jews have no dealings with Samaritans." Centuries of animosity between the Samaritans and the Jews resulted in a tradition where the Jews would literally go around Samaria rather than risk contact with a Samaritan. After inquiring why Jesus would even talk to her, the woman said to Him, "I know that Messiah is coming who is called Christ…When He comes, He will tell us all things.’ And Jesus said to her, "I Who speak to you am He."



"I And My Father Are One"

Throughout the four Gospels Jesus made many astonishing claims about Himself and His relationship to God His Father. However, none of them offended the Pharisees more than His claims of deity. In the Gospel of John, chapter 10, we find a dramatic encounter and the most incredible claim ever made by Jesus:

"Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter. And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon’s porch. Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, ‘How long do You keep us in doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.’ Jesus answered them, ‘I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. I and My Father are one.’ Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, ‘Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?’ The Jews answered Him, saying, ‘For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.’" John 10:22-33 (NKJ)

Among the Sanhedrin, the ruling body in Israel, there were those who wanted to believe that Jesus was the Messiah. Eventually, some of them did. However, when Jesus declared that He and His Father were One, they couldn’t handle it. There was no doubt in their minds what Jesus had just declared. He was applying to Himself the very nature and essence of God the Father, the Creator of the universe, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob!

Those that heard this incredible claim had a choice. They had seen many miraculously healed; they had heard His unparalleled words. Either this man was the Messiah of Israel and God in the flesh, or a deceiver and a blasphemer. They chose the latter. Why? Because He, "being a Man, makes himself God."

Throughout the Gospel of John, Jesus made dozens of similar declarations regarding His equality with God. In John chapter 14, we find an incredible discourse between Jesus and His disciples. Speaking of His Father, Jesus said:

"‘If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.’ Philip said to Him, ‘Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.’ Jesus said to him, ‘Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?" John 14:7-9 (NKJ)

In John, chapter 12, speaking of the Father, Jesus made a similar declaration when He stated, "…he who sees Me sees Him who sent Me."

Jesus’ claim that He is the very image of God is echoed in a number of places in the New Testament.

Speaking of His majesty, Paul the Apostle declared that Jesus is:

"…the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him." Colossians 1:15-16 (NKJ)

In Hebrews 1:3 the author, speaking of Jesus, states:

"who being the effulgence of His [God’s] glory, and the very image of His substance, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had made purification of sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high."

In I John 5:20, the Apostle John makes an incredible statement regarding the identity of Jesus:

"And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."

Such radical claims about Him and by Him are unparalleled in human history. No wonder the Temple officers who were charged with capturing Jesus said "…No man ever spoke like this Man!"



The Titles of God

Within the Old Testament there are a number of majestic titles that are exclusively applied to God. In many cases we find that God jealously guards these titles, declaring that they apply to Him "alone." It is fascinating to discover that many of those titles exclusively applied to God in the Old Testament are applied to Jesus of Nazareth in the New Testament as well. In fact, a careful examination of both testaments reveals that most of the names of God are applied to all three persons of the Trinity (Table 1).

In the book of Revelation, the Apostle John was caught up in the spirit and given a panoramic vision of earthly and heavenly events at the end of the age. During his vision, John was given a preview of the throne of God where he saw Jesus Christ as "a Lamb as it had been slain." John was also given a preview of the cataclysmic events on planet earth that will take place during the last 3 1/2 years of earth history known as the "Great Tribulation."

In Revelation, chapter 19, John is given a vision of an event called the "marriage supper of the Lamb," where the saints (the church) are treated to a meal by the Lord Jesus himself. Then the Apostle John states he saw "heaven open" and a man riding on a white horse, whose robe was dipped in blood. This rider, called the "Word of God," is unequivocally identified by scholars as Jesus Christ. What is remarkable about this rider is that verse 16 states "…He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written ‘King of Kings, and Lord of Lords.’"

This presents a small problem because this very same title is exclusively applied to Yahweh in the Old Testament.

"For the LORD, [Yahweh] your God, is the God of Gods and the Lord of Lords. The great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality nor takes a bribe." Deuteronomy 10:17

The title "LORD of lords," by its very nature, can only apply to one individual. There cannot be two "LORD of lords." So, either Jesus of Nazareth and Yahweh are One and the same, or there is another major contradiction in the Bible. But wait, there’s more.

In the book of Revelation, chapter one, there is a similar paradox. The Apostle John was exiled to the island of Patmos when he heard behind him a "great voice" who identified himself as the "Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last." Stunned by this encounter, John "fell at his feet as dead." Then the One who spoke to John laid His right hand on him and said:

"…Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death." Revelation 1:17b-18

The identity of this individual is, of course, Jesus Christ. Only Jesus could make the claim, "I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore." The problem is that the title "First and the Last," here applied to Jesus, is also applied exclusively to Yahweh in the Old Testament.

In the book of Isaiah we read:

"Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; besides Me there is no God.’" Isaiah 44:6 (NKJ)

In this verse we see another hint of the supernatural engineering of the Biblical text. Notice first that there are two distinct personages spoken of here; Yahweh, King of Israel and Yahweh of Hosts. These two individuals refer to themselves as "I." Notice, they do not state, "We are the First and the Last." Here we see a hint of at least two personages making up the God of the Bible.

Secondly, notice that Yahweh states, "besides Me there is no God." There are not two Yahwehs. Consequently, since the title, "the First and the Last," is applied to Jesus Christ, then He must be a physical manifestation of Yahweh, the transcendent Creator of the universe.
 
liafailrock said:
Squeakybro said:
we are to submit to God the way Jesus submitted to God. If we submit to God then God can work through us. And it will be Him doing the works not us.

I 100% agree with this statement! And that's how The God (YHWH) reproduces Himself thru everyone being one in Him. However, God wanted many glorified sons. These will one day rule and reign, judge angels and the world, and live eternally like Christ. That's an awful lot of responcibility given to us. We are not just merely eternally grateful individuals whose sole purpose is to give the Father an eternal ego-boost. He wanted more like Himself to do things with.

God reproducing himself?

That sounds like the EW Kenyon/William Branham "Manifest sons of God" heresy to me.
 
you said
God reproducing himself?

I said
God does not reproduce Himself. He works through obedient children. We submit and God will work through us. The same way He worked through Jesus. Jesus wasnt God we will never be God and God doesnt reproduce Himself.

2 Cor 5:18-21
18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God.
21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
(NKJ)
 
I gave up a while back trying to talk with Squeakybro. He isn't interested in the truth - only confusing people.
 
reproduce: verb

1. Make a copy of
2. Have offspring or young
3. Recreate an idea, mood, atmosphere, etc. as by artistic means
4. Repeat after memorization

Let's deal with definition #2 using all Bible quotes, and don't say "that's not what it says", because if I said it in a similar manner , you (all) would understand me clearly enough. Indeed, you already have which is the reason for the challenge. If one is born of God, they were reproduced from God. Some Scripture:

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.


Paul said:

And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Or.... in my words, just as Adam reproduced human beings and are in Adam's likeness, so being born in Christ makes one in the likeness of God, or, offspring of God. Therefore, the believer will rule and reign with Christ, they will judge angels and the cosmos, etc.

I John 5:1

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

I Peter 1:3

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

Let's see, that's Jesus, Paul, John ,and Peter talking about being born of God or begotten of God. That makes God the Father--- and His sons are begotten of Him. Sounds like the same thing in the physical world. And by definition, that's reproduction.
 
You must be in the milk understanding. Because only those in the milk would attempt to use a carnal dictionary to define Spiritual words. Now because reproduce is not in the Word of God. It appears you use the word begotten. And because the same word in the new testament has a different definition in the old testament I gave you both.

3205 yalad (yaw-lad');

a primitive root; to bear young; causatively, to beget; medically, to act as midwife; specifically, to show lineage:

KJV-- bear, beget, birth ([-day]), born, (make to) bring forth (children, young), bring up, calve, child, come, be delivered (of a child), time of delivery, gender, hatch, labour, (do the office of a) midwife, declare pedigrees, be the son of, (woman in, woman that) travail (-eth, -ing woman).

3439 monogenes (mon-og-en-ace');

from 3441 and 1096; only-born, i.e. sole:

KJV-- only (begotten, child).

1080 gennao (ghen-nah'-o);

from a variation of 1085; to procreate (properly, of the father, but by extension of the mother); figuratively, to regenerate:

KJV-- bear, beget, be born, bring forth, conceive, be delivered of, gender, make, spring.
 
This is about to get off topic.

If God reproduces Himself, then there are more than one God.

Ex 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
 
evanman you said

If God reproduces Himself, then there are more than one God.

I said
Slow down we havent even proved that reproduce is in the Word of God. If we havent established that yet we cant assume the way you are.
God does not reproduce Himself.

Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
(NKJ)
 
Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Well now, since this book of Relevation was written before there was an established book of canonized Scripture called the Bible, the verses above applied only to the book of Revelation itself.
 
You said
Well now, since this book of Relevation was written before there was an established book of canonized Scripture called the Bible, the verses above applied only to the book of Revelation itself

I said
Well I guess you have a right to your opinion, but dont forget that is all you have is an opinion.
Personally from experiance I find that it applies where ever the Holy Spirit puts it. And in this case it applies here.
 
Vic said:
Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Well now, since this book of Relevation was written before there was an established book of canonized Scripture called the Bible, the verses above applied only to the book of Revelation itself.

********

Elijah here:
Are you saying that the Word of God in Rev. is something [NEW}? That He, the Word of God is NOT FROM EVERLASTING... just because we did not have it in print??? And that Christ' Words of Matt. 4:4 are meaningless before it was in print??? And that 2 Tim. 3:16 was not printed in the old testament so it is not ETERNAL TRUTH???

WOW!!! You & 'i' are in total 180 degree opposites! :sad :crying: You toss out the verse in Rev. as meaning only Rev., when it is said that HISTORY IS TO REPEAT in Ecclesiastes 1:9-10 & Ecclesiastes 3:15, and God is even asking the question, IS THERE ANYTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN? while you nor Rev. were not even 'born' in form yet! :fadein: But READ HIS ANSWER to His own question in ETERNITY, before you came on the scene & could be born, & then garble it up!! :wink: (Thank you Lord, huh?)

Better still, read Eccl. 3 verse 14, & compare with your abstract 'posts' remark? "I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be forever: nothing can be put to it, nor anything taken from it:
and God doeth it, that men should fear before Him." That even sounds as good as a Revelation 22:18-19 repeat to me![/color]

Whatever? ---Elijah
 
Squeaky Denies Scripture

Squeaky,

You simply must acknowledge the Old and New Testament that testify that Jesus is God.

The spirit you follow obviously doesn’t know scripture and/or wishes to pervert it.

Mathew says that Isaiah chapter 9 is about Jesus:

Isaiah 9:1-2

1 Nevertheless, there will be no more gloom for those who were in distress. In the past he humbled the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, but in the future he will honor Galilee of the Gentiles, by the way of the sea, along the Jordan-
2 The people walking in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of the shadow of death a light has dawned.

Mathew 4:13-17

13Leaving Nazareth, he went and lived in Capernaum, which was by the lake in the area of Zebulun and Naphtali– 14to fulfill what was said through the prophet Isaiah: 15“Land of Zebulun and land of Naphtali, the way to the sea, along the Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles– 16the people living in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of the shadow of death a light has dawned.â€Â17From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.â€Â

So, since Mathew says Isaiah chapter 9 is about Christ, and Christ started His post-resurrection ministry preaching from the Old Testament and affirming what Moses and the Prophets said about Him, let's look at what one of the greatest prophets said about Jesus (as mathew and the New Testament affirm)

1. Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Sine the Old and New Testament affirm Jesus is to be called Mighty God. and since Jesus, and Mathew, and the New Testament affirmed this writing about Jesus, what leads Squeaky and his perverted spirit to deny clear scripture?

Squeaky - BELIEVE : Romans 9:5 Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.
 
As I told you on the other board where you heckle until you answer my question I will not play your game anymore.
How old are you? Are you a man or a woman?
 
Hey, let's have some fun and let's look up some Greek words together, shall we?

In the First chapter of Matthew we have a bunch of "begats", for example:

And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias.......

begat:
gennao¯
ghen-nah'-o
From a variation of G1085; to procreate (properly of the father, but by extension of the mother); figuratively to regenerate: - bear, beget, be born, bring forth, conceive, be delivered of, gender, make, spring.


Then, I earlier quoted I John 5:1:

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

and I Peter 1:3 :

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

Let's look up "begat" there and also "begotten":

gennao¯
ghen-nah'-o
From a variation of G1085; to procreate (properly of the father, but by extension of the mother); figuratively to regenerate: - bear, beget, be born, bring forth, conceive, be delivered of, gender, make, spring.

anagennao¯
an-ag-en-nah'-o
From G303 and G1080; to beget or (by extension) bear (again): - beget, (bear) X again.


DANG! I wish these Greeks would get it right and not use the same words for being born from a natural father and being born of a heavenly Father. They could have somebody actually believe what is written there and go to hell forever and ever and ever because God would be so furious to even think He would do, ahem, you know, and create another being like Himself. Don't they know those who were born again are not "regenerated" from God the way a human baby is from a couple? God created us all like I made this computer. Being the Geek (not Greek) that I am without a wife (or life) I called this computer I built my "son".
grin.gif
 
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