Trinity Here

[Rollo Tamasi]

In the end times, there will be those who try to convince others that the Trinity is not true.
They will try to prove that between God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit, there is no Trinity.
They will try to divide Christians and stop them from having fellowship with one another, weakening their faith, and ultimately, destroying them.

DON'T BELIEVE IT!

The Trinity is true, Jesus and the Father are one, and the Holy Spirit is God himself coming to our rescue.
Always remember, only God can save us.

 

[Eugene]

In the end times, there will be those who try to convince others that the Trinity is not true.
They will try to prove that between God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit, there is no Trinity.
They will try to divide Christians and stop them from having fellowship with one another, weakening their faith, and ultimately, destroying them.

DON'T BELIEVE IT!

.
The Trinity is true, Jesus and the Father are one, and the Holy Spirit is God himself coming to our rescue.
Always remember, only God can save us.

Thank you brother, but that is just a continuation of existing conditions concerning God in the minds of men. How is this advantageous to their godless religiousness? If they can cast doubt upon upon the word of God, they have gained alliance that God does not exist, and I remain amazed at the extent they will go. Could we say they find pleasure in unity of evil, or are they merely puppets of Satan?
I will say that I have found Christians confused also as to the total depth and extent of God's presence to us which believe, but prayerfully that too will be answered to them as they grow in grace and knowledge of our Lord.

 

[ezrider]

Those who would try and deny the Trinity are of no real concern, and really of little consequence. The true end time deception comes by those who profess the Trinity doctrine but then deny that the "coming" of the Spirit is the promised "second coming." If you are looking for the "second" coming of a man, then you have not received the Spirit as Christ, and you have demonstrated your disbelief in that which you profess to be true but without understanding.

 

[Eugene]

Those who would try and deny the Trinity are of no real concern, and really of little consequence. The true end time deception comes by those who profess the Trinity doctrine but then deny that the "coming" of the Spirit is the promised "second coming." If you are looking for the "second" coming of a man, then you have not received the Spirit as Christ, and you have demonstrated your disbelief in that which you profess to be true but without understanding.

It sounds as if you have something to say here I'd like to have a clearer understanding of.

 

[ezrider]

It sounds as if you have something to say here I'd like to have a clearer understanding of.

1. Do you believe the Holy Spirit dwells within you?

2. Do you still look for the second coming of Jesus?

3. If you answered yes to both 1 & 2, then please explain the contradiction in your answers.

 

[Eugene]

1. Do you believe the Holy Spirit dwells within you?

2. Do you still look for the second coming of Jesus?

3. If you answered yes to both 1 & 2, then please explain the contradiction in your answers.

I don't see the contradiction, though we're guilty of straying from the OP. Please start a new thread.

 

[JohnD]

Those who would try and deny the Trinity are of no real concern, and really of little consequence. {snip}

I disagree completely. But I must qualify this:

As a Church doctrine, the Trinity is not a required knowledge for conversion. It is imperative however for there to be an actual conversion to the truth that one believes in the genuine Jesus Christ. A general / generic jesus will not save. In order to ensure one has the genuine Jesus one must determine who that is by the Bible and what all it says about him, his deity, his humanity etc.

For example:

Colossians 2:9 (NIV84)
9For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,

This is not to say the totality of Deity lives in him, but rather that the Deity in him is fully divine / fully God / just as much God as the Father or the Spirit.

If it were not for the many texts indicating a plurality of individuals in the one God, Colossians 2:9 and other similar texts could suggest Jesus is all the God that there is. But we must take the amalgam of Bible texts on the matter into consideration.

For example:

John 1:1 (NIV84)
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

This indicates there were two who are God. Deuteronomy 6:4 and other texts indicate there is only one God so this is not a text that proves there are Gods (plural) as Tritheists state. Tritheism believes there are three Gods with one unified purpose (hence the oneness claims throughout scripture). An example of the error of this theology would be to apply it to an immediate family (father, mother, child) as three families. There is a much more detailed biblical refutation of this theology but I am only mentioning it here to make y'all aware of it.

The Texas in my past travels is showing. Tee Hee

This is what I like to call the beginning 1 - 2 punch:

John 1:1–2 (NIV84)
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2He was with God in the beginning.

Genesis 1:1–2 (NIV84)
1In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

1 John 1:1–2 (NIV84)
1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.
2The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.

 

[JohnD]

The Jesus of Jehovah's Witness does not save.
The Jesus of Mormonism does not save.
The Jesus of Oneness / Apostolic Modalism (Sabellianism) does not save.

2 Corinthians 11:3–4 (NIV84)
3But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ.
4For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.

Just as Eve was deceived... isn't that how humanity got in this mess in the first place?

"you put up with it easily enough..." is a put down (gullibility) ridiculed.

Galatians 1:8–9 (NIV84)
8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

Paul included angels and even the Apostles.

It may not be a requirement that a convert knows first all the theology there is, but they are still subject to converting to the genuine Jesus. And the teachings of the Bible (one of which man classifies as Trinitarian) is required in that authentication.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Those who would try and deny the Trinity are of no real concern, and really of little consequence. The true end time deception comes by those who profess the Trinity doctrine but then deny that the "coming" of the Spirit is the promised "second coming." If you are looking for the "second" coming of a man, then you have not received the Spirit as Christ, and you have demonstrated your disbelief in that which you profess to be true but without understanding.

The chapters from 10 to the end of Daniel and the Book of Revelation say to me that you might be quenching the Spirit. Having watch a Modalist friend pass over I am familiar with Modalism but having spent better than 25 years studying and about 23 years teaching the Bible I know that it is wise fro the Modalist not to try proving their point of view because scripture will not support it when scripture is viewed using solid Hermeneutics.

Sorry to see you holding that view but you are wrong. God does not present Himself in different modes but as suggested in Genesis one and proved over and over, the God Head is a Triune, Spirit Being where the Son, that is promised to reappear in the clouds, became a man while God the Father remained on the Throne and the Holy Spirit, the third person of the God Head, replaced the second person, the Son.

May God bless this truth to your heart.

 

[Deborah13]

I disagree completely. But I must qualify this:

As a Church doctrine, the Trinity is not a required knowledge for conversion. It is imperative however for there to be an actual conversion to the truth that one believes in the genuine Jesus Christ. A general / generic jesus will not save. In order to ensure one has the genuine Jesus one must determine who that is by the Bible and what all it says about him, his deity, his humanity etc.

For example:

Colossians 2:9 (NIV84)
9For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,

This is not to say the totality of Deity lives in him, but rather that the Deity in him is fully divine / fully God / just as much God as the Father or the Spirit.

If it were not for the many texts indicating a plurality of individuals in the one God, Colossians 2:9 and other similar texts could suggest Jesus is all the God that there is. But we must take the amalgam of Bible texts on the matter into consideration.

For example:

John 1:1 (NIV84)
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

This indicates there were two who are God. Deuteronomy 6:4 and other texts indicate there is only one God so this is not a text that proves there are Gods (plural) as Tritheists state. Tritheism believes there are three Gods with one unified purpose (hence the oneness claims throughout scripture). An example of the error of this theology would be to apply it to an immediate family (father, mother, child) as three families. There is a much more detailed biblical refutation of this theology but I am only mentioning it here to make y'all aware of it.

The Texas in my past travels is showing. Tee Hee

This is what I like to call the beginning 1 - 2 punch:

John 1:1–2 (NIV84)
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2He was with God in the beginning.

Genesis 1:1–2 (NIV84)
1In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

1 John 1:1–2 (NIV84)
1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.
2The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

I like the Young's Literal better....
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten of a father, full of grace and truth.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Why is everybody off topic?
Why does nobody answer the OP?
Or does nobody understand the OP?
Should I rewrite it?

 

[ezrider]

The chapters from 10 to the end of Daniel and the Book of Revelation say to me that you might be quenching the Spirit. Having watch a Modalist friend pass over I am familiar with Modalism but having spent better than 25 years studying and about 23 years teaching the Bible I know that it is wise fro the Modalist not to try proving their point of view because scripture will not support it when scripture is viewed using solid Hermeneutics.

Sorry to see you holding that view but you are wrong. God does not present Himself in different modes but as suggested in Genesis one and proved over and over, the God Head is a Triune, Spirit Being where the Son, that is promised to reappear in the clouds, became a man while God the Father remained on the Throne and the Holy Spirit, the third person of the God Head, replaced the second person, the Son.

May God bless this truth to your heart.

Bill,

Please do not assume to know of what I am referring to. Modalism? You couldn't be further from the truth of which I speak. You have not the slightest clue as to my relationship with the Lord and my communion with his Spirit to make such a declaration that I am quenching the Spirit. You do not know of what you speak.

But I have nothing more to add to this topic. It is obvious to me that there are few who would seek the truth, most want to argue rather than learn or open themselves to contemplating the what ifs because they fear to challenge their own beliefs. Besides, it has been made readily apparent to me that somehow discussing the Spirit verse the manifestation of the word in the flesh is somehow off topic as a discussion on the trinity. My position on trinity shall only speak from the dead. I shall say no more.

I shall leave you all to debate the traditions and doctrines of men for which I have no desire to discuss. Peace out!

 

[Malachi]

1. Do you believe the Holy Spirit dwells within you?
2. Do you still look for the second coming of Jesus?
3. If you answered yes to both 1 & 2, then please explain the contradiction in your answers.

There's no contradiction here whatsoever, since Jesus and the Holy Spirit are two distinct Divine Persons, and the Second Coming of Christ is embedded in Scripture. His first coming was in lowliness and humiliation but His Second Coming is in "power and great glory". and He will come with His saints AND angels.

Which brings us to the OP. There are indeed three distinct Divine Persons in the Godhead, and those who deny either the Deity of Christ or the truth of the Trinity are antichrists. And there will be many antichrists before the final Antichrist -- the Beast -- rears his ugly head.

 

[JohnD]

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

I like the Young's Literal better....
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten of a father, full of grace and truth.

1 John 1:1–10 (AV)
1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
3That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
4And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
5This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[Deborah13]

5This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all

 

[JohnD]

Hi.

Just thought I'd peek in on the website.

 

[Deborah13]

Hi.

Just thought I'd peek in on the website.

Glad to see you. Hope your wife is feeling better.

Mat 12:15 But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;
Mat 12:16 And charged them that they should not make him known:
Mat 12:17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
Mat 12:18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

Isa 42:1 Lo, My servant, I take hold on him, My chosen one--My soul hath accepted, I have put My Spirit upon him, Judgment to nations he bringeth forth.

 

[Sinthesis]

In the end times, there will be those who try to convince others that the Trinity is not true.
They will try to prove that between God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit, there is no Trinity.
They will try to divide Christians and stop them from having fellowship with one another, weakening their faith, and ultimately, destroying them.

DON'T BELIEVE IT!

The Trinity is true, Jesus and the Father are one, and the Holy Spirit is God himself coming to our rescue.
Always remember, only God can save us.

Hasn't this been going on for quite a while now? So that it began long before any era we would normally today consider as end times?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Hasn't this been going on for quite a while now? So that it began long before any era we would normally today consider as end times?

I understand what you are saying.
Yes, I believe it has been going on since the birth of the Church.
The entirety of the Church is the end times.

 

[JLB]

but then deny that the "coming" of the Spirit is the promised "second coming."

Jesus Christ Baptizes with the Holy Spirit, on the Day of Pentecost.

4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, "which," He said, "you have heard from Me;
5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now." Acts 1:4-5


This happened on the day of Pentecost.

If you are looking for the "second" coming of a man, then you have not received the Spirit as Christ, and you have demonstrated your disbelief in that which you profess to be true but without understanding.

Jesus Christ Himself is seated at the right hand of God, and will remain there untill He returns at the end of the age to Gather His people at the Resurrection and Rapture.

This is the Second coming. - Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

24 "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light;
25 the stars of heaven will fall, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken.
26 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.
Mark 16:24-27


The day of Pentecost and the Day of the lord are two separate events.


JLB