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Bible Study Trinity

Ok let me in on the joke what website might that be.

DEITY DO YOU KNOW WHAT IT MEANS?
their are so many that throw around that word deity, I havent met any that can truly define it. But they hold on to it. The definition of deity, is divinity, the definition of divinity is that Jesus is inferior to the supreme God but superior to man.

deity 1 a: often cap : divine nature or rank: the essintial nature of a god or of a supreme being: DIVINITY

di-vin-i-ty 1:the quality or state of being divine: nature or essence of God: GODHEAD (the divinity of Jesus) a celestial being inferior to the supreme God but superior to man<one of the subservient divinities>

This is the deffinition of deity and divinity, Jesus is separate from God.


Acts 17:24-29
24 "God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands.
25 "Nor is He worshiped with men's hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things.
29 "Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man's devising.
(NKJ)
Now Jesus had the Divine Nature of God, but He wasnt God.
We want that same divine nature, but that won't make us God either. We are suppose to be Christ like as Christians. Christ humbled Himself to God and we should do the same. To claim Jesus is God is to deny One of the two Spirits we submit to. And the only Way to the Father is threw the right Son.


Matt 10:33
33 "But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.
(NKJ)

Nobody can know God, unless the real Jesus reveals Him. If you dont know Jesus you cant know God.


Matt 11:27-30
27 "All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
28 "Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 "Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
30 "For My yoke is easy and My burden is light."
(NKJ)

John 14:28
28 "You have heard Me say to you, 'I am going away and coming back to you.' If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, 'I am going to the Father,' for My Father is greater than I.
(NKJ)
 
Oh yes I remember I even found one I hadnt answered. Thanks. When I switched computers I lost alot of my old websites.
 
Supernac,

Hey blessings to you friend! Keep pressing on. There are still hungry souls around (somewhere). Feel free to visit and post on my board.
 
All we can do is share where we're at. And learn from one another.
 
All we can do is share where we're at. And learn from one another.
 
And, please use extreme reverence and CAUTION when speaking on this topic.
Jesus gave a serious WARNING about talking about the Holy Spirit.

Read your bible, using a concordance, to look up the unforgiveable sin.
PLEASE, use extreme caution when talking about this most holy of subjects.
Click to expand...

In my opinion there is no such thing as the "Unpardonable Sin" since I believe that the passage is mistranslated. It should read:

Verily I say to you, that all the sins shall be forgiven to the sons of men, and evil speakings with which they might speak evil, but whoever may speak evil in regard to the Holy Spirit hath not forgiveness -- to the age, but is in danger of age-during judgment;


As to the debate of the Trinity, I'm kind of in a bind here. I'm really not sure of what I believe. I'm kind of leading to, I guess, the idea that they are One and not three distict personalities. I will use a quote from Eric Stetson,

"An analogy I like to use is that if God is water, then God the Father would be water in the liquid form, which can also be changed into either steam or ice and can appear in all three forms simultaneously. The steam represents the Holy Spirit, which is an invisible, ethereal substance capable of being either omnipresent or concentrated, like a gas. The ice represents Jesus Christ, a specific crystallization of God into the form of a human body and soul. In that solid form, God interacts with the world in a specific way, with certain contingencies and limitations. That is why Christians have always believed that Christ is both fully human and fully divine."
 
I've seen alot of people get sucked in with the analogies. Why not just go to the Word and believe it. Jesus said the Father is the only true God, but what does He know.

John 17:1-3
1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You,
2 "as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him.
3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
(NKJ)
 
So what's your point? Can you elaborate a bit? What is it you think this scripture is saying?
 
Squeakybro said:
Why not just go to the Word and believe it. Jesus said the Father is the only true God, but what does He know.
Click to expand...

If Jesus' reference to the Father as "The only true God" were meant to exclude the Son from deity, than the same principle of interpretation would have to apply to Jude 4, where Jesus Christ is called "our only Owner and Lord" This would have to exclude the Father from Lordship and Ownership. Yet, the JW speaks of the Father as "the Lord Jehovah," even though Jude 4 calls Jesus or "only" Lord. And the Holy Spirit is called "Lord" at 2 Corinthians 3:17. It's obviously, then, neither use the word only is exclusive with reference to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Jesus; being called our "only" Lord does not rule out the Lordship of the Father and the Holy Spirit, and the Father's being called the "only" true God does not exclude the Son and the Holy Spirit from deity.
 
you said
and the Father's being called the "only" true God does not exclude the Son and the Holy Spirit from deity.

I said
Then what your saying is one plus one is NOT two anymore. That takes one wild imagination. Now if you add these to that. It still comes up with only one God the Father.

1 Cor 8:6
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
(NKJ)

Eph 4:6
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
(NKJ)

And if that won't work for you try this. Jesus and I have the very same God and the very same Father.

John 20:17
17 Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"
(NKJ)

And your deity arguement won't wash. Have you ever looked up the definition of deity??????
Deity-Divinity

I have seen these words used in so many different context, that I had to go to the library and look in the big dictionary. To try to find out why these people are using it the way they are. It amazed me. The carnal language is dangerous because it is satans play ground. Satan can use the carnal mind, change a few words, exaggerate anything there. But the spiritual mind which is only verses, he has no power. He can only try with a piece of a verse, and this is why I tell everybody. If you ever get a piece of a verse, go look it up for verification. But he(satan) will not use a whole verse because that is glorifiing Christ. And satan is anti-christ. Now when I speak of verses I'm speaking of new testament verses, because we know that he(satan) quotes old testament verses. And yes the Holy Spirit quotes old testament verses to. But Christ is the new testament. Anyway check out these deffinitions from the big dictionary at the library.

deity 1 a: often cap : divine nature or rank: the essintial nature of a god or of a supreme being: DIVINITY

di-vin-i-ty 1:the quality or state of being divine: nature or essence of God: GODHEAD (the divinity of Jesus) a celestial being inferior to the supreme God but superior to man<one of the subservient divinities>

Now it doesnt say that Jesus is God, what it says is He is second in command, it says Jesus is inferior to the supreme God but over every other creature in heaven and on earth.
I got my deffinitions from websters new world dictionary copyright 1993
 
you said
So what's your point? Can you elaborate a bit? What is it you think this scripture is saying?

I said
The whole trinity idea has more holes in it than a screen door. And they have convinced you to believe in it with blind faith. Faith is not blind.

Rom 10:17
17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
(NKJ)

John 14:26
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
(NKJ)

Faith comes by hearing(not reading) the Word of God. Not hearing someone else quote it to you , but the Holy Spirit quoting it to you in your mind. And the Holy Spirit only quotes verses. He only brings to remembrance what JESUS HAS ALREADY SAID. And He cant quote the trinity because TRINITY isnt in the Word of God anywhere.
 
Squeakybro said:
I said
Then what your saying is one plus one is NOT two anymore. That takes one wild imagination. Now if you add these to that. It still comes up with only one God the Father.
Click to expand...

Hum... while it is true 1 + 1 + 1 = 3 however, 1 x 1 x 1 still = 1 So guess it just depends if your adding, or multiplying now doesn't it?

Why don't you answer the questions I posed, instead of throwing out a bunch more scriptures in efforts to confuse the issue and dodge logical questions.

In any case, your starting to repeat yourself, you've said all of this stuff before without any intelligent rebuttal to the questions asked of you.
 
you said
Why don't you answer the questions I posed, instead of throwing out a bunch more scriptures in efforts to confuse the issue and dodge logical questions.

I said
I have seen lots of accusations, but I must have missed the questions. Ask them again.
 
manimal2878 said:
ok

I just finished reading the new testament.

I don't see evidence for a lot of things that seem to be part of the church/christian established religions, I am sure some of it is me being new to study and not having a full understanding of the bible yet.

The thing is I see no justification whatsoever for the idea of the trinity. I don't even see how there could be interpretations that would lead to it.

Where did this idea come from? In fact it seems to contradict the idea of the ONE true god.

Can any of you guys offer some explanation?
Click to expand...

The thing you need to understand is that God's revelation of himself to Mankind was progressive. He didn't reveal everything about himself all at once. He revealed different aspects of his Nature bit by bit in order to give us time to assimilate those different aspects of his nature.

If God is Infinite and God is Truth then it stands to reason that God is Infinite Truth and that Infinite Truth cannot be fully comprehended by finite creatures. Therefore God sometimes has to reveal himself to us in the form of paradox. Two truths which, according to finite human logic and reason, contradict each other but in Infinite reality actually co-exist together.

First of all God revealed that he was personal in Nature and that as a personal Being he could commune with those personal beings whom he created in his own image (Gen.1-3).

Further down the line God revealed that he was strictly One God (Deut.6:4) and that apart from him no other Divine Being existed [though there were multiple 'gods', both heavenly and earthly, the strict definition of a 'god' being 'that which has power and authority over another' therefore whoever (or whatever) is invested with power and/or authority over us, either by God [Ex.7:1; Ps.82:6; Rom.13:1-7] or by ourselves [Ex.20:3], is de facto a 'god' over us. God never says 'Thou shalt have no other gods' since God himself has set 'gods' over us [Rom.13:1-7]. What he says is 'Thou shalt have no other gods before me' (Ex.20:3)] (Isa.43:10-13).

Eventually, through his supreme revelation of himself (as simultaneously the Infinite Divine Creator and a finite human creature) in the Person of the Messiah (Heb.1) God fully revealed his Trinitarian Nature.

This is what John is referring to in the opening verses of his Gospel (Jn.1:1-14) where he emphatically declares In the begining was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God (v.1)

This tells us:
a) that 'In the begining', i.e. before anything else was either created or existed, the Word existed. This means that the Word is Eternal and not a finite created being (cf. Gen.1:1; Phil.1:15-17).
b) that 'In the begining' the Word was WITH God. This means that the Word and 'God' [a reference to the conventional Jewish [though not Biblical] understanding of God as a strictly Unitarian 'Father'] are separate and distinct Persons (but not Beings).
and c) that 'In the begining' the Word WAS God. In other words, whilst being separate and distinct Persons they were also one and the same Eternal Being.

John then goes on to launch a full frontal assault on the heresy of Gnosticism by emphatically declaring that the Eternal Being who is God (a.k.a. the Word), far from remaining aloof in 'unsullied perfection' whilst getting 'others' to do his 'dirty work' of creating and sustaining the 'sinful' material realm for him, actually incarnated ['became flesh'] and dwelt [i.e. 'tabernacled'/'set up home'] amongst us. John emphatically declared this in order to demonstrate that the Creation was strictly God's own handiwork and that, being his own handiwork, it was 'very good' (Gen.1:31). Furthermore, to prove the point, God was quite willing to incarnate into his material realm and in doing so bestow upon it his 'seal of approval' as HIS creation. Therefore the material creation must be affirmed and enjoyed rather than denegrated, despized, and a thing from which to escape, as the Gnostics taught.

The important point for this discussion is that there are multiple passages within the Judeo-Christian Scriptures which, ulterior motives and theological presuppositions notwithstanding, clearly teach multiple Persons within the One Divine Being who is God.

If we start from the human creature who, being finite, has, by definition, to be unitarian in nature (i.e. one being/one person) and then try and project that back onto God (in contravention of God's own revelation concerning his Divine Nature as Trinitarian) instead of starting from God's own revelation of himself as Infinite Trinitarian (the fundamental pre-requisite of God being Love (1Jn.4:8)) rather than Unitarian, and then scaling down from that revelation of God as Trinitarian, to the finite unitarian creature that is Man, then it is hardly surprizing that we arrive at the wrong conclusions?!

Simonline.
 
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