True Acts 2:38 Christians will not go through the Great Tribulation

[jasoncran]

I know what they believe. we have one of them down the road that is united pentacostal church. I never said that he wasn't saved. the upc are oneness and also say the same as they are also apostolic.

 

[Narwhalist]

Romans 5;1 - Therefore, since we have been justified through FAITH, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have gained access by FAITH into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.
Ephesians 2:8 - For it by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast.
Can't get any clearer. No mention of baptism saving here.
The Covenant of Grace is a covenant between God and mankind where God promises man eternal life. It is based upon the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross and the condition is faith in Jesus Christ. Just like the communion during the last supper replaces Passover, baptism replaces circumcision. Circumcision was the rite that gave you entrance into the covenant between God & Abraham, it did not save. Same goes for Baptism.

 

[JLB]

Romans 5;1 - Therefore, since we have been justified through FAITH, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have gained access by FAITH into this grace in which we now stand. And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God.
Ephesians 2:8 - For it by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast.
Can't get any clearer. No mention of baptism saving here.
The Covenant of Grace is a covenant between God and mankind where God promises man eternal life. It is based upon the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross and the condition is faith in Jesus Christ. Just like the communion during the last supper replaces Passover, baptism replaces circumcision. Circumcision was the rite that gave you entrance into the covenant between God & Abraham, it did not save. Same goes for Baptism.

Well it looks like you and Jesus have a different definition for being saved.

15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. Mark 16:15-16


JLB

 

[Narwhalist]

How about the part you left off. I believe the entire scripture goes "He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will accompany those who believe:
I don't have a different definition of being saved than Jesus does. But I do understand the Bible and know what a negative inference fallacy is. If I say all cats with black tails are animals, can you infer from this that cats that don't have black tails are animals. Of course not. Just because Mark says that whoever believes and is baptized, you cannot infer from this that those who are not baptized are not saved. The next phrase would have to say "but whoever does not believe and is not baptized will be condemned.
Yet you say nothing about Romans 5:1 and Ephesians 2:8 - mentions nothing about baptism.
Let's look at John 3:18 - Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. Where's baptism here?
John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life for God's wrath remains on him.
John 5:24 (Jesus speaking) - I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believe him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.
John 8:24 (Jesus speaking again) - "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins. - again not a mention of baptism,
Acts 16:31 - They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved - you and your household. Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in the house." After the word of the Lord was spoken to the family, and they were saved, then "The jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his family were baptized. Baptism is very important, but it is not a requirement for salvation.
Here's another - Galatians 3:6 - Consider Abraham: "He believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness. Understand, then that those who believe are children of Abraham. The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by FAITH, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: All nations will be blessed through you. So those who have FAITH, are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
Acts 10:43 - All the prophets testify about Him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name - no mention of baptism again. Now this scripture says it clearly for in the next verse, Acts 10:44 says this - "While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message." Then note what happens next. Peter says "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water. THEY HAVE RECEIVED THE HOLY SPIRIT JUST AS WE HAVE. SO HE ORDERED THAT THEY BE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST. This baptism happened after they were saved.
The scripture you mentioned Mark 16:15-16 cannot be interpreted unless these other scriptures, which there is no doubt to what they are saying, are taken into consideration. Test bible scripture with other scripture to obtain correct interpretation of scriptures which are not as clear.

 

[JLB]

How about the part you left off. I believe the entire scripture goes "He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved,

You can throw all the other scriptures you want into the mix, it won't change the words of Jesus.

... he who believes and is baptized will be saved.

You either believe Him and show you believe Him, by obeying Him, or you don't.

It's your choice.

in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Thessalonians 1:8


JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

I know what they believe. we have one of them down the road that is united pentacostal church.

Almost sounds if you have a pet or something.

JBL, you believe that dunking in Water is absolutely necessary to be saved?



Mike.

 

[jasoncran]

I know what they believe. we have one of them down the road that is united pentacostal church.

Almost sounds if you have a pet or something.

JBL, you believe that dunking in Water is absolutely necessary to be saved?



Mike.

they are nearly a cult.all the women have their hair up in buns.they are so into the holy ghost. that I could see that they almost teach that the hs was the god whom died for you!

 

[John 8:32]

Sounds a lot like APOSTOLIC here. Would this include the gift of tongues?

Why would anyone imagine themselves to be Christian outside of the Apostolic doctrine? Speaking in other tongues was the only evidence that the Apostles accepted that someone had received the same Holy Ghost that they had received.

Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.





Regards,
Bro. Winter

1Co 14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

1Co 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
1Co 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

From the Diaglott...

1Co 14:18 I give thanks to the God, all of you more with tongues, speaking;
1Co 14:19 but in a congregation I wish five words through the understanding of me to have spoken, that also others I may instruct, then a myriad words in a tongue.

from Thayers...

G1100
γλῶσσα
glōssa
Thayer Definition:
1) the tongue, a member of the body, an organ of speech
2) a tongue
1a) the language or dialect used by a particular people distinct from that of other nations
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: of uncertain affinity
Citing in TDNT: 1:719, 123

Sorry, but the scripture doesn't bear out that one must speak in languages to be a Christian...

1Co 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
1Co 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

The gift of speaking in languages is not given to all anymore than the gift of miracles or healing.

 

[JLB]

I know what they believe. we have one of them down the road that is united pentacostal church.

Almost sounds if you have a pet or something.

JBL, you believe that dunking in Water is absolutely necessary to be saved?



Mike.

I believe what Jesus said -

He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. Mark 16:16

For me personally, I was Baptized in the Holy Ghost first, and later on I was baptized in water.

However this scripture in John 3:5 has nothing to do with baptism of water.

Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Personally. I believe in all three baptisms. [The Holy Ghost and fire is one Baptism, not two]

But that is not the topic of this thread.


JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

I believe what Jesus said -

He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. Mark 16:16

For me personally, I was Baptized in the Holy Ghost first, and later on I was baptized in water.

However this scripture in John 3:5 has nothing to do with baptism of water.

OK you believe in (3)?? I was just asking. Being in prison and giving my life to the Lord as well as others. The best we could have done is rinsed off in the show to be baptized.

The gift of speaking in languages is not given to all anymore than the gift of miracles or healing.

John.............. The gift of Miracles or Healing was not given to everyone back then either. Jesus said if you believe on my name you shall speak with new Tongues. He did say you shall lay hands on the sick and they shall "RECOVER" but that is not the gift of Healing by the Power and anointing of the Holy Spirit. That is just believing the Word of God, and believing with them that they will eventually recover and be OK.

The anointing to do a Miracle or lay hands on people and KABOOM!!!!, instantly healed is more as the Spirit of God wills. You will definitively be able to tell if or when that anointing comes on you. We can still pray for others by faith and encourage them if they are sick though without the gift operating. James has a passage for Pastors/ Elders of the church if they pray in faith that the Lord will "RISE" them up.
I normally have seen the gifts of Healing operate when A) The persons was not saved or brand new. B) Something needs instantly turned around to save them.

Gifts are great and it's awesome to see them operate but we also have scripture we are suppose to stand on and believe anyway.

they are nearly a cult.all the women have their hair up in buns.they are so into the holy ghost. that I could see that they almost teach that the hs was the god whom died for you!

Ya, I know. I worked with an Apostolic Pastor. He kept claiming I was not really saved because 1) I just would not dress as suggested. 2) I was not baptisted in the name of Jesus only, but by the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (As if I care what they said during the Baptism, I was glad to be saved) I asked him how the heck am I speaking in tongues if I am not even saved? He did not seem to know that answer. I will say they love the Lord, The Holy Spirit is definitely there, but that don't mean your not confused.

Mike.

 

[Eugene]

how the heck am I speaking in tongues if I am not even saved?

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive. If you were not saved you would not have spoken in tongues.

And being saved and baptized does not automatically mean all experience the Holy Spirit falling on them as you experienced.

Acts 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Below some received the Holy Ghost prior to baptism, and so they had to have already been saved.

Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

 

[Brother Mike]

And being saved and baptized does not automatically mean all experience the Holy Spirit falling on them as you experienced.

That was my case. I gave my life to the Lord the best I knew how. Being in prison though you sort of just get a bible if your lucky and start reading through it. Later the Lord moved me to what was called the Christian Wing. It was there I first heard someone speaking in tongues as the men would gather every night, hold hands and pray. First I had seen it, I grew up Baptist and Nazarene. Of course Baptist, and many different men all joined in. Denomination does not really matter in prison. Christians, Muslims, New Age, the list goes on. It was those Tongues talkers who led because they were a strange group that not only spoke in tongues but had some kind of power where they knew things and it was all very strange. Still, I needed to be (With) the Christians so I just stood around when they gathered and kept quite.

 

[JLB]

OK you believe in (3)?? I was just asking. Being in prison and giving my life to the Lord as well as others. The best we could have done is rinsed off in the show to be baptized.

I would like to share with you what I have about this subject, maybe in another thread that is about baptisms.

However this scripture in John 3:5 has nothing to do with baptism of water.

Do you agree with this statement?


JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

Do you agree with this statement?

I am open to hear. I have not studied baptism very deeply. Some believe one by which they get saved and all the possible manifestation of the Holy Spirit they will ever see. Some two, that we get dunked in water and at the same time or later the filling of the Holy Spirit as a gift to be a more effective witness (Evidence of Tongues normally follows this) A 3rd one though............ I have yet to hear. Not saying it's not there, I just not heard or studied it.

Mike.

 

[JLB]

Do you agree with this statement?

I am open to hear. I have not studied baptism very deeply. Some believe one by which they get saved and all the possible manifestation of the Holy Spirit they will ever see. Some two, that we get dunked in water and at the same time or later the filling of the Holy Spirit as a gift to be a more effective witness (Evidence of Tongues normally follows this) A 3rd one though............ I have yet to hear. Not saying it's not there, I just not heard or studied it.

Mike.

The understanding of the three is found in the meaning of what Jesus taught here in these verse's.

3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." 4 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?" 5 Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Do you know what Jesus is referring to here?

"Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.


JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

From what I am reading and the question asked Jesus, one must be human from a women to qualify. How can one enter the Womb the second time and Jesus said you had to exit the womb and be born by Spirit.

Mike.

 

[Sinthesis]

From what I am reading and the question asked Jesus, one must be human from a women to qualify. How can one enter the Womb the second time and Jesus said you had to exit the womb and be born by Spirit.

Mike.

Human from a women is a given. Nobody isn't born, but we are all conceived and born in sin. Baptism is symbolic of laying down your old life to be raised to a new life. That is the water. Your new life as a Christian is to be motivated by the Holy Spirit rather than the old spirit of self.

 

[Holy Bible]

Steve, you claim that the Jews are THE elect of God. But you missed a few very telling and important verses on this exact topic.
For example: Colossians 3:12 shows the Church to be the very elect of God. 1Peter1:2 also is the Church. How about 1 Peter5:13?
How about Romans 9:6 eh? Then you made very sure NOT to quote this very telling verse, namely
Romans 11:7 You see? There is an election but it is made up of both Jew and Gentile.
*******
Holy Bible
There is only one.

 

[reba]

Off topic... HB your font is very small ....

 

[turnorburn]

Welcome to the forums Brother Steve..

tob