Truly I Tell You

[phil marriner]

Explain please what you mean by heresy another term thrown around by those who think they know the truth

 

[jasonc]

Explain please what you mean by heresy another term thrown around by those who think they know the truth

go to the tos and read up with full preterism is. and what the tos says.

 

[phil marriner]

ah so you go the pharisee route instead of reasoning with humility and love ok i leave you all in Peace and Love for the sake of brotherly love in Christ

 

[jasonc]

ah so you go the pharisee route instead of reasoning with humility and love ok i leave you all in Peace and Love for the sake of brotherly love in Christ

2:.2: No active promotion of other Faiths is allowed:

You will not post any messages; links, images or photos that promote a religion or belief other than Biblical and historical Christianity (atheism is considered a "belief" for the purposes of this rule). Discussion of these doctrines are is fine, as long as the beliefs foreign to Christianity (as defined above) are not actively promoted or held in balance with orthodox Christianity. This includes Full Preterism, Universal Reconciliation, Universal Salvation, Serpent seed, Dual Seed or Two-Seedline doctrine where discussion is limited to and only allowed in the 1 on 1 Debate Forum. This is a Christian Forum as the name suggests.


before you declare that as the case. full pretersim was never taught nor believed by the apostles, one can find what they said to their disciples with Justin martyr. he was a premillenialist but not as one is today. he looked to the resurrection and he was born 30 years after the fact of ad 70 .

 

[phil marriner]

For the third time i do not follow any theology except the living word Jesus Christ i know nothing about preterism,pre mill,pre trib this or that

 

[jasonc]

For the third time i do not follow any theology except the living word Jesus Christ i know nothing about preterism,pre mill,pre trib this or that

so you agreed to something in ignorance? that is what you believe. I know we used to not to have that rule but a preterist poster saw to that was changed. so you know better then the apostle who had the vision? really john the apostle would disagree with YOU. he was there when jesus said what he said. and according to Justin martyr taught a thousand year reign.

 

[phil marriner]

The thousand year reign symbolises a very long period of time even eternity if a day is a thousand years and a thousand years a day meaning Father exists out of time as we know it and that means eternity

 

[reba]

Slow down guys.... some your wording phil marriner is lining up with full preterism....Here is the teaching of full preterism condensed into a nut shell ...

Full preterism teaches , all eschatological prophecy has come to pass, the Great White Throne Judgment, including the resurrection, the destruction of satan, and the Second Coming of Christ. This view is not a part of Cfnets Statement of Faith. Cfnet holds the view full preterism is heresy.
Postings will be closely moderated, subject to quick deletions.

 

[jasonc]

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html

CHAPTER XXXI -- IF CHRIST'S POWER BE NOW SO GREAT, HOW MUCH GREATER AT THE SECOND ADVENT!

"But if so great a power is shown to have followed and to be still following the dispensation of His suffering, how great shall that be which shall follow His glorious advent! For He shall come on the clouds as the Son of man, so Daniel foretold, and His angels shall come with Him. These are the words: 'I beheld till the thrones were set; and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of His head like the pure wool. His throne was like a fiery flame, His wheels as burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before Him. Thousand thousands ministered unto Him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him. The books were opened, and the judgment was set. I beheld then the voice of the great words which the horn speaks: and the beast was beat down, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. And the rest of the beasts were taken away from their dominion, and a period of life was given to the beasts until a season and time. I saw in the vision of the night, and, behold, one like the Son of man coming with the clouds of heaven; and He came to the Ancient of days, and stood before Him. And they who stood by brought Him near; and there were given Him power and kingly honour, and all nations of the earth by their families, and all glory, serve Him. And His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not be taken away; and His kingdom shall not be destroyed. And my spirit was chilled within my frame, and the visions of my head troubled me. I came near unto one of them that stood by, and inquired the precise meaning of all these things. In answer he speaks to me, and showed me the judgment of the matters: These great beasts are four kingdoms, which shall perish from the earth, and shall not receive dominion for ever, even for ever and ever. Then I wished to know exactly about the fourth beast, which destroyed all [the others] and was very terrible, its teeth of iron, and its nails of brass; which devoured, made waste, and stamped the residue with its feet: also about the ten horns upon its head, and of the one which came up, by means of which three of the former fell. And that horn had eyes, and a mouth speaking great things; and its countenance excelled the rest. And I beheld that horn waging war against the saints, and prevailing against them, until the Ancient of days came; and He gave judgment for the saints of the Most High. And the time came, and the saints of the Most High possessed the kingdom. And it was told me concerning the fourth beast: There shall be a fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall prevail over all these kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall destroy and make it thoroughly waste. And the ten horns are ten kings that shall arise; and one shall arise after them; and he shall surpass the first in evil deeds, and he shall subdue three kings, and he shall speak words against the Most High, and shall overthrow the rest of the saints of the Most High, and shall expect to change the seasons and the times. And it shall be delivered into his hands for a time, and times, and half a time. And the judgment sat, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end. And the kingdom, and the power, and the great places of the kingdoms under the heavens, were given to the holy people of the Most High, to reign in an everlasting kingdom: and all powers shall be subject to Him, and shall obey Him. Hitherto is the end of the matter. I, Daniel, was possessed with a very great astonishment, and my speech was changed in me; yet I kept the matter in my heart.'"

CHAPTER XXXII -- TRYPHO OBJECTING THAT CHRIST IS DESCRIBED AS GLORIOUS BY DANIEL, JUSTIN DISTINGUISHES TWO ADVENTS.

And when I had ceased, Trypho said, "These and such like Scriptures, sir, compel us to wait for Him who, as Son of man, receives from the Ancient of days the everlasting kingdom. But this so-called Christ of yours was dishonourable and inglorious, so much so that the last curse contained in the law of God fell on him, for he was crucified."

Then I replied to him, "If, sirs, it were not said by the Scriptures which I have already quoted, that His form was inglorious, and His generation not declared, and that for His death the rich would suffer death, and with His stripes we should be healed, and that He would be led away like a sheep; and if I had not explained that there would be two advents of His,--one in which He was pierced by you; a second, when you shall know Him whom you have pierced, and your tribes shall mourn, each tribe by itself, the women apart, and the men apart, --then I must have been speaking dubious and obscure things. But now, by means of the contents of those Scriptures esteemed holy and prophetic amongst you, I attempt to prove all [that I have adduced], in the hope that some one of you may be found to be of that remnant which has been left by the grace of the Lord of Sabaoth for the eternal salvation. In order, therefore, that the matter inquired into may be plainer to you, I will mention to you other words also spoken by the blessed David, from which you will perceive that the Lord is called the Christ by the Holy Spirit of prophecy; and that the Lord, the Father of all, has brought Him again from the earth, setting Him at His own right hand, until He makes His enemies His footstool; which indeed happens from the time that our Lord Jesus Christ ascended to heaven, after He rose again from the dead, the times now running on to their consummation; and he whom Daniel foretells would have dominion for a time, and times, and an half, is even already at the door, about to speak blasphemous and daring things against the Most High. But you, being ignorant of how long he will have dominion, hold another opinion. For you interpret the 'time' as being a hundred years. But if this is so, the man of sin must, at the shortest, reign three hundred and fifty years, in order that we may compute that which is said by the holy Daniel--'and times'--to be two times only. All this I have said to you in digression, in order that you at length may be persuaded of what has been declared against you by God, that you are foolish sons; and of this, 'Therefore, behold, I will proceed to take away this people, and shall take them away; and I will strip the wise of their wisdom, and will hide the understanding of their prudent men;' and may cease to deceive yourselves and those who hear you, and may learn of us, who have been taught wisdom by the grace of Christ. The words, then, which were spoken by David, are these: 'The Lord said unto My Lord, Sit Thou at My right hand, until I make Thine enemies Thy footstool. The Lord shall send the rod of Thy strength out of Sion: rule Thou also in the midst of Thine enemies. With Thee shall be, in the day, the chief of Thy power, in the beauties of Thy saints. From the womb, before the morning star, have I begotten Thee. The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent: Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek. The Lord is at Thy right hand: He has crushed

CHAPTER LXXXI -- HE ENDEAVOURS TO PROVE THIS OPINION FROM ISAIAH AND THE APOCALYPSE.

"For Isaiah spake thus concerning this space of a thousand years: 'For there shall be the new heaven and the new earth, and the former shall not be remembered, or come into their heart; but they shall find joy and gladness in it, which things I create. For, Behold, I make Jerusalem a rejoicing, and My people a joy; and I shall rejoice over Jerusalem, and be glad over My I people. And the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, or the voice of crying. And there shall be no more there a person of immature years, or an old man who shall not fulfil his days. For the young man shall be an hundred years old; but the sinner who dies an hundred years old, he shall be accursed. And they shall build houses, and shall themselves inhabit them; and they shall plant vines, and shall themselves eat the produce of them, and drink the wine. They shall not build, and others inhabit; they shall not plant, and others eat. For according to the days of the tree of life shall be the days of my people; the works of their toil shall abound. Mine elect shall not toil fruitlessly, or beget children to be cursed; for they shall be a seed righteous and blessed by the Lord, and their offspring with them. And it shall come to pass, that before they call I will hear; while they are still speaking, I shall say, What is it? Then shall the wolves and the lambs feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the ox; but the serpent[shall eat] earth as bread. They shall not hurt or maltreat each other on the holy mountain, i saith the Lord.' Now we have understood that the expression used among these words, 'According to the days of the tree[of life] shall be the days of my people; the works of their toil shall abound' obscurely predicts a thousand years. For as Adam was told that in the nay fie ate of the tree he would die, we know that he did not complete a thousand years. We have perceived, moreover, that the expression, 'The day of the Lord is as a thousand years,' is connected with this subject. And further, there was a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ, who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him, that those who believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem; and that thereafter the general, and, in short, the eternal resurrection and judgment of all men would likewise take place. Just as our Lord also said, 'They shall neither marry nor be given in marriage, but shall be equal to the angels, the children of the God of the resurrection.'

 

[jasonc]

that is the oldest teachings on end times.

 

[phil marriner]

Slow down guys.... some your wording phil marriner is lining up with full preterism....Here is the teaching of full preterism condensed into a nut shell ...

Full preterism teaches , all eschatological prophecy has come to pass, the Great White Throne Judgment, including the resurrection, the destruction of satan, and the Second Coming of Christ. This view is not a part of Cfnets Statement of Faith. Cfnet holds the view full preterism is heresy.
Postings will be closely moderated, subject to quick deletions.

I did not say all things came to pass, not once.All i said was Messiah was talking to those standing right in front of him. I dont know about or wish to know about preterism, pre millenianism, pre tribism or whatever. What Messiah said is not heresy, are followers not interested inwhat the Messiah said. If it makes you happy i will refrain from speaking about Jesus and keep it for a site that loves the Messiah

 

[jasonc]

I did not say all things came to pass, not once.All i said was Messiah was talking to those standing right in front of him. I dont know about or wish to know about preterism, pre millenianism, pre tribism or whatever. What Messiah said is not heresy, are followers not interested inwhat the Messiah said. If it makes you happy i will refrain from speaking about Jesus and keep it for a site that loves the Messiah

you didn't refute my position of the fact there is a future resurrection. I did make that clear.
paul; said in one Corinthians.

we that are alive at his coming shall be changed in the twinkling of an eye, for the dead in Christ shall rise first then we that are alive shall be with him in the air and forever so shall we with him

they believe that didn't come to pass. or did they? I say no. the are two parousias.

 

[reba]

I did not say all things came to pass, not once.All i said was Messiah was talking to those standing right in front of him. I dont know about or wish to know about preterism, pre millenianism, pre tribism or whatever. What Messiah said is not heresy, are followers not interested inwhat the Messiah said. If it makes you happy i will refrain from speaking about Jesus and keep it for a site that loves the Messiah

Sorry phil marriner i was not attacking just giving information ..I wish more folks listened to the Words of Jesus a bit more then they do.
Forums are not easy to get to know people on it takes a while...

 

[phil marriner]

Yes thanks for telling me what i have to abide by on this site. I dont go to any church or belong to any denomination so have no agenda
so to speak. Peace and Love

 

[Eugene]

Symbolic hyperbole metaphors were always used by the jews to describe events. I do not follow preterism or any other theology except Jesus Christ and what he says. Listen to him he is the way and truth. If you look at revelation most of those are taken form old testament prophets who used exactly the same scripture when describing wars Israel were involved with the term end of the world etcwas used many times in the OT but the end of the world did not come. You need to get to know your Messiah not in a book but in real you are conditioned to think this way by man and your flesh. If Messiah told his 1st century apostles that some would still be alive when he returned and that they would not finish going through all the tribes of Israel before he returned then i believe him

phil marriner. And so I take it that you add the words "End of the Jewish age" and yet don't believe that one third of mankind to be slain as Jesus had His angel show John in Rev 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths. Did Jesus need use hyperbole metaphors because He was known as a Jew? Would I also be wrong in thinking that you believe that John wrote the book of Revelation prior to 70 AD?

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. I can't say that I'm sorry that I don't believe those suppositions of all being accomplished at all.

 

[jasonc]

they were in his kingdom when they believe and that isn't what he was talking about the list of all these things is in reference to matthew 24 and the ad 70 event

 

[phil marriner]

FIne thanks for the comment

 

[reba]

Yes thanks for telling me what i have to abide by on this site. I dont go to any church or belong to any denomination so have no agenda
so to speak. Peace and Love

Pretty much me too.. For a number of reasons this place has become my church and it is interdenominational to say the least... Although i do have a far reaching church history...

 

[phil marriner]

Me too done the churches tour for years Its ironic that i only discovered the real Jesus when i got out of the churches

 

[reba]

I wish i had a church home ... very much so... I miss the in person fellowship... Folks here treat me great, i love it here but still miss the going to "church.".. These guys help me balance...