Truly I Tell You

[jasonc]

No we are not struggling we are all on the right lines and the revealing of everything comes out of the soup mix,.What you say sits fine with me. Our Messiah Died and resurrected is a good starting point for all to share

so you know what the new body will look like? will it have blood? will we need food? what about the age at which we appear? what about gender?

 

[phil marriner]

You know the answer to those questions yourself. To be in the presence of Christ forever is enough for me. No need to add anything

 

[jasonc]

You know the answer to those questions yourself. To be in the presence of Christ forever is enough for me. No need to add anything

I don't. the earth has no sea, no sun nor moon. some take that literally. some jews teach that. remember the idea of the chialism and also some of this did start with the Pharisees. modern orthodox jews believe in a millennial reign of the moshiac , they then teach that creation will be destroyed. Isiah and john echo something of the same about the sun and moon being gone. so when im asked about the tree of life in the new age, I have to ask and then ponder.

 

[Gary]

Revelation was written years before 70AD

Everything I've read shows it was written around 90AD.




And you never did answer this. Since Christ has already returned, according to you, the catching up had to have already taken place.......................right?

What about the catching up of the living? When does that take place?

 

[Sinthesis]

Why did the early church understand this? Why was this the belief in the early church; that Messiah Yahusha had returned, fulfilled the Old Covenant, and all could be grafted into the New Covenant through Yahuah Father's Son, the Messiah? Revelation was written years before 70AD for the Hebrew and Gentile Believers, so that they would be strengthened, and not fall away, because of the intense persecution they were undergoing by the religious leadership in the
Temple (Pharisees,Sadducees,Herodians) and the Roman govt., which had joined the religious leadership in trying to destroy the Believers in the Way. The early church understood and believed Messiah Yahusha's Words. This understanding of the Book of Revelations began to be twisted in the 1830s with Darby, Scofield, etc (Jesuit infiltration), until we have the craziness that we have today; with everybody predicting when a seal has opened, or a trumpet sounds, or a bowl is poured out. This is craziness and disrespect to Messiah Yahusha's Words. Why did Messiah address specifically the people He was talking to, and say that His generation would see Him return in the clouds- an imagery that denotes power because it comes from the Throne in the Heavens? Why did Yahusha address Apostle Peter and say about Apostle John "...If I want him to remain TIL I COME, what is that to you? You follow Me. Therefore this Word went out among the brothers that this talmid would not die, but, "IF I DESIRE HIM TO REMAIN UNTIL I COME, WHAT IS IT TO YOU?" I do not like to think that we too are a wicked generation that twists the Word of Messiah Yahusha to fit preconceptions based on erroneous teachings. Messiah Yahusha came for His people, the ancient Hebrews (Israel) that were divorced or separated (apostate) from the Old Covenant. By dying on the Cross, He as their Husband released them from their marriage Covenant, and allowed them to enter into a new marriage Covenant with Him,as the Bride of Messiah. He did not forsake His people Israel (the ancient Hebrews). He came back for them, so they could reenter through the Door, and no longer be separated from Him. "I return for the lost sheep of Israel." After His Resurrection, He then taught His Apostles and Disciples; that Gentiles were to be grafted into the New Covenant. The Bride of Yahusha Messiah were the 1st Believers in Yahusha Messiah and His Way; the Elect that suffered horrific persecution. In 70AD, Messiah came back for His Bride, just like He said He would. The dead in Messiah were resurrected and the living in Messiah were translated, and the Bride returned home with Messiah to the Heavens, just like He said it would happen. Do we believe in Messiah's Word or not? Believers today in Messiah need to open the ancient books, and read about all the supernatural things that happened between 30AD and 70AD. Where did all the apostles and disciples of Messiah go after 70AD? They wrote nothing else and they were no longer heard from. The early church was almost extinguished between the heavy persecution, and the fact that the apostles, disciples, and The Bride of Messiah, both Hebrew and Gentile, were gone. Some later church records say Apostle John lasted to an old age. I believe Messiah Yahusha. Apostle John did not see physical death; he was translated with The Bride of Messiah in 70AD. Apostle John wrote nothing else or did anything else of note for the early church. Why? Because John was in Heaven with Messiah. This is what Yahusha's Words say. This is what historical records show. Where does that leave us in the year 2013? Yahusha defeated death. He restored Yahuah's Kingdom to us. All can return to Yahuah Father through the Door, Yahusha Messiah, while on earth, or when we return to heaven after our physical death. That is the Good News! We are no longer separated from our Father, while on earth or after physical death! Rejoice! satan has no power over us

The Apostle John lived on earth long after 70AD, as evidenced by his teaching Polycarp, who was born in 69AD. You have an interesting take on how those 'end times' played out allegorically, but it still needs work. These things are so complex and interconnected that it is very difficult to present a new understanding without laying a whole lot of groundwork to support a position. Just claiming you believe Jesus' words, as if everyone who might disagree with you doesn't believe Jesus' words, is not an effective tactic to persuade other Christians.

 

[phil marriner]

Yes great comment and i agree.I only got this realisation about 6 months ago after being an endtime doom and gloom merchant. There is always finetuning on it all and im sure Messiah will discipline me for anything wrong or misleading i say but thats ol

 

[Gary]

Yes great comment and i agree.I only got this realisation about 6 months ago after being an endtime doom and gloom merchant. There is always finetuning on it all and im sure Messiah will discipline me for anything wrong or misleading i say but thats ol

How did you come about this realization? What was it that convinced you that mainstream Christianity had it all wrong?
.

 

[phil marriner]

TO be honest i dont know. I been to all mainstream denominations was even a Jehovah WItness for a while but something was never right. It was when i was free form those teachings these churches try to install into you and it took a few years i began to read the scriptures and it was like a light being switched on. Mainstream Christianity does not have it all wrong. Its how they use the truth they have been given what is wrong. Jesus Christ is the Way , not a church, no one can get to the Father except through him alone, not through a church etc. It's between you and him alone same ofr all of us

 

[Gary]

TO be honest i dont know. I been to all mainstream denominations was even a Jehovah WItness for a while but something was never right. It was when i was free form those teachings these churches try to install into you and it took a few years i began to read the scriptures and it was like a light being switched on. Mainstream Christianity does not have it all wrong. Its how they use the truth they have been given what is wrong. Jesus Christ is the Way , not a church, no one can get to the Father except through him alone, not through a church etc. It's between you and him alone same ofr all of us

So what exactly was it that convinced you that you finally have it right?
.

 

[phil marriner]

It's not a case of finally having it right. All things are a process . By keep seeking knocking and asking all things are revealed . So after many years of not being sure if he was God or not. Got the realisation of it recently. Now that unsurety has gone

 

[jasonc]

i don't claim that. no, no.greater men who have the time to study the word and did so were wrong, matthew henry, a man who was a kicked out of the puritan church for preaching the truth and decided he would write a commentary to preach the world. he died never completing that task, his disciples finished his work after acts to revalation. yet he was wrong on end times in some parts. but we will see him in heaven.