Bible Study Under The Old Covenant Death Is Forbidden

[ugmug]

Under The Old Covenant Death Is Forbidden

When Jesus initiated the New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:33) just before Christ's crucifixion on the cross God wrote his laws into man's heart and mind, but not his flesh. If God had written his laws into man's flesh then no man could die without incurring additional sin since dying would violate God's 6th commandment 'Thou Shall Not Kill'.

In fact, if God's laws were written into our flesh, then Jesus Christ could not have died since it would violate God's commandment 'Thou Shall Not Kill' which would be a sin. Essentially death is a sin under the Old Covenant.

It is important to note that God commanded Adam to take care of his Garden, that is, to keep it alive. God's Covenant with Abraham, the Old Covenant, reestablishes that command God gave to Adam in the Garden of Eden and passes it on to all of Adam and Eve's descendants to keep everything alive, especially ourselves, since man was created from the dust of the ground along with everything else in the Garden.

One has to remember that the Old Covenant established God's laws which forbid killing or dying (hint: the 6th commandment). Therefore if Jesus had died under the Old Covenant then he would have violated God's commandment, and violated God's command to Adam to tend to his garden, that is, to keep everything alive.

But Jesus made a New Covenant with man, that included himself, which established God's laws in man's heart and mind but not his flesh (hint: the flesh represent religious rituals). Jesus could not die under the Old Covenant without violating God's laws but he could die under the New Covenant since God's laws were removed from the flesh and placed solely in the heart and mind.

God's covenant with man started in the Garden of Eden where God gave a command to Adam to tend his garden which means Adam is to keep everything alive, including himself, by not eating the forbidden fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. When Adam violated that Covenant God made another with man through Abraham and when that was violated God made another covenant with man through Jesus Christ.

There are actually three Covenants God made with man which is why the Antichrist will place 666 on every person left after the rapture. The 6 represents God's 6th commandment that forbids God from killing anyone (hint: 666 represents the rainbow surrounding God's throne to warn and/or taunt God not to kill any of the Antichrist's believers).

Today, many religions create rituals and laws, like Islamic Sharia law, that place laws upon the flesh. God permits Sharia law because God gave man dominion over his own flesh when God gave man dominion over the world. Since man was made from the dust of the ground God gave man dominion over his own flesh when God gave man dominion over the world.

This juxtaposition of placing God's laws in our heart and mind but not our flesh is exemplified in the creation of the United States Constitution where the freedom of the individual is paramount to establishing laws that obligate each individual to the rule of law, including all those who govern, rather than having a government indiscriminately determine who is compliant thereby excluding all those who govern. The US Constitution exemplifies God's laws that are reflective of the New Covenant of Jesus Christ where God's laws are in our hearts and minds while a monarchy, or dictatorship rule, reflects the Old Covenant of placing God's rules and laws solely upon our flesh.

The paradox of death is that death is due to sin (hint: original sin) and because of the Old Covenant death is also a sin (hint: thou shall not kill). Especially important is the fact that under the New Covenant of Jesus Christ that paradox is still maintained for the heart and mind but not the flesh. A person cannot be saved by the law of the Old Covenant simply because it is still a sin to actually die. The New Covenant eliminates the sin of physically dying meaning you are forgiven of original sin.

onsider that in the story of Noah and Lot both were the only one righteous man left among all the inhabitants. This one righteous man left is symbolic of God's 'Covenant' where it is against God's law to die or to kill, even for God. But after the one righteous man is removed there is no protection of God's 'Covenant' therefore it is no longer against God's law (hint: even for God) to eliminate all the inhabitants.

Many Christians are waiting for the rapture where, like Noah and Lot, God will remove the 'one righteous man left', meaning mankind will no longer have protection of God's Covenant, and then mankind will be thrown into utter chaos as everyone will seek to destroy the other (hint: read the Book of Revelation).

Believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ who established God's New Covenant (hint: communion of bread and wine ) in order to enable Christ to die on the cross without violating any of God's laws. The New Covenant removed God's laws from man's flesh so that death cannot harm any believer in Jesus Christ since death of the flesh of a Christian will no longer violate any of God's laws.

God Bless

 

[GodsGrace]

Under The Old Covenant Death Is Forbidden

When Jesus initiated the New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:33) just before Christ's crucifixion on the cross God wrote his laws into man's heart and mind, but not his flesh. If God had written his laws into man's flesh then no man could die without incurring additional sin since dying would violate God's 6th commandment 'Thou Shall Not Kill'.

In fact, if God's laws were written into our flesh, then Jesus Christ could not have died since it would violate God's commandment 'Thou Shall Not Kill' which would be a sin. Essentially death is a sin under the Old Covenant.

It is important to note that God commanded Adam to take care of his Garden, that is, to keep it alive. God's Covenant with Abraham, the Old Covenant, reestablishes that command God gave to Adam in the Garden of Eden and passes it on to all of Adam and Eve's descendants to keep everything alive, especially ourselves, since man was created from the dust of the ground along with everything else in the Garden.

One has to remember that the Old Covenant established God's laws which forbid killing or dying (hint: the 6th commandment). Therefore if Jesus had died under the Old Covenant then he would have violated God's commandment, and violated God's command to Adam to tend to his garden, that is, to keep everything alive.

But Jesus made a New Covenant with man, that included himself, which established God's laws in man's heart and mind but not his flesh (hint: the flesh represent religious rituals). Jesus could not die under the Old Covenant without violating God's laws but he could die under the New Covenant since God's laws were removed from the flesh and placed solely in the heart and mind.

God's covenant with man started in the Garden of Eden where God gave a command to Adam to tend his garden which means Adam is to keep everything alive, including himself, by not eating the forbidden fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. When Adam violated that Covenant God made another with man through Abraham and when that was violated God made another covenant with man through Jesus Christ.

There are actually three Covenants God made with man which is why the Antichrist will place 666 on every person left after the rapture. The 6 represents God's 6th commandment that forbids God from killing anyone (hint: 666 represents the rainbow surrounding God's throne to warn and/or taunt God not to kill any of the Antichrist's believers).

Today, many religions create rituals and laws, like Islamic Sharia law, that place laws upon the flesh. God permits Sharia law because God gave man dominion over his own flesh when God gave man dominion over the world. Since man was made from the dust of the ground God gave man dominion over his own flesh when God gave man dominion over the world.

This juxtaposition of placing God's laws in our heart and mind but not our flesh is exemplified in the creation of the United States Constitution where the freedom of the individual is paramount to establishing laws that obligate each individual to the rule of law, including all those who govern, rather than having a government indiscriminately determine who is compliant thereby excluding all those who govern. The US Constitution exemplifies God's laws that are reflective of the New Covenant of Jesus Christ where God's laws are in our hearts and minds while a monarchy, or dictatorship rule, reflects the Old Covenant of placing God's rules and laws solely upon our flesh.

The paradox of death is that death is due to sin (hint: original sin) and because of the Old Covenant death is also a sin (hint: thou shall not kill). Especially important is the fact that under the New Covenant of Jesus Christ that paradox is still maintained for the heart and mind but not the flesh. A person cannot be saved by the law of the Old Covenant simply because it is still a sin to actually die. The New Covenant eliminates the sin of physically dying meaning you are forgiven of original sin.

onsider that in the story of Noah and Lot both were the only one righteous man left among all the inhabitants. This one righteous man left is symbolic of God's 'Covenant' where it is against God's law to die or to kill, even for God. But after the one righteous man is removed there is no protection of God's 'Covenant' therefore it is no longer against God's law (hint: even for God) to eliminate all the inhabitants.

Many Christians are waiting for the rapture where, like Noah and Lot, God will remove the 'one righteous man left', meaning mankind will no longer have protection of God's Covenant, and then mankind will be thrown into utter chaos as everyone will seek to destroy the other (hint: read the Book of Revelation).

Believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ who established God's New Covenant (hint: communion of bread and wine ) in order to enable Christ to die on the cross without violating any of God's laws. The New Covenant removed God's laws from man's flesh so that death cannot harm any believer in Jesus Christ since death of the flesh of a Christian will no longer violate any of God's laws.

God Bless

I didn't read everything, honestly. I'm sorry.

Jesus DID die under the Old Covenants.

The New Covenant did not become effictive until AFTER Jesus died on the cross.

Also, I don't quite understand what you mean by the Law being in the flesh.

Another statement which must be brought to your attention is that there are more than 3 Covenants.
Could you please adjust this for those reading along?
There are at least 5 to 7 very important ones, and even more than that.

Wondering

 

[smaller]

Deuteronomy 32:39
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

 

[GodsGrace]

Deuteronomy 32:39
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.

People in the O.T. believed everything was from God.
They didn't have the theology we have.
If God created evil, as some here suggest, we're in dire straights.
He is Almighty and nothing happens without His consent,
that is different than saying that God CAUSES evil.
God did not sit at a desk and write the bible.
He revealed Himself to the Hebrews before they were even
called Hebrews. Do you believe God wanted them to do everything
that is written in the Torah? Or do you think some of it might be man-made?
And do you think this idea is blasphemis??

 

[smaller]

People in the O.T. believed everything was from God.
They didn't have the theology we have.
If God created evil, as some here suggest, we're in dire straights.
He is Almighty and nothing happens without His consent,
that is different than saying that God CAUSES evil.
God did not sit at a desk and write the bible.
He revealed Himself to the Hebrews before they were even
called Hebrews. Do you believe God wanted them to do everything
that is written in the Torah? Or do you think some of it might be man-made?
And do you think this idea is blasphemis??

Paul lays out a Divine Principle for us, here:

Acts 17:
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

If we accept the Principle, it is pointless to draw "exceptions" to the rule. There are no exceptions available. He Is Lord of "all things." And does give to ALL, all things.

We might like to make our list of things we do not see under His Rule, but that serves to show a lesser God, and not The God of "all" and of "all things." And yes, most of us will struggle in such sights, trying to extract "evil and death" from the equations, where no subtractions exist.

 

[GodsGrace]

Paul lays out a Divine Principle for us, here:

Acts 17:
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

If we accept the Principle, it is pointless to draw "exceptions" to the rule. There are no exceptions available. He Is Lord of "all things." And does give to ALL, all things.

We might like to make our list of things we do not see under His Rule, but that serves to show a lesser God, and not The God of "all" and of "all things." And yes, most of us will struggle in such sights, trying to extract "evil and death" from the equations, where no subtractions exist.

I agree with everything you've stated.
What did I say differently?
Do you believe God created evil because the O.T. says so?
Then we also cannot believe in an afterlife since that idea did not
exist in the Old Testament but is a new idea that came with Jesus' teachings.
The Sadducees, for instance, did not believe in an afterlife.

 

[smaller]

I agree with everything you've stated.
What did I say differently?

Many try to insert "freewill" meaning their abilities to "resist" God and "make decisions on their own" apart from any workings of Divine Providence and Power. I would simply say that sight is given to them by God. It doesn't mean God was extracted from the insertions of those claims, which makes it difficult to remedy for those who think it so. But, IF in fact God gave them that mindset, who am I to say otherwise. And we could go right on down the list, from a believer who holds God Sovereign in "all things" to an unbeliever who believes in nothing. A sight of Divine Sovereignty will see ALL of it, from God. An unbeliever will see NONE of it from God.

Stack up everything else in between the extremes.

To me, it's ALL from God, according to the scriptures.

Do you believe God created evil because the O.T. says so?

I believe "all things" serve Gods Own Purposes. And that He Is and Will Remain forever over and above "all things." I also submit to the fact that such sights, in their entirety, does not belong to me, nor will it, ever, but is Permanently Reserved, Entirely in His Hands.

Then we also cannot believe in an afterlife since that idea did not
exist in the Old Testament but is a new idea that came with Jesus' teachings.

An afterlife or "eternal life" is presented almost immediately in Gen. I don't know how anyone could miss it. Gen. 2:9. And if the blinded Sadducee's did not see it, it was in accordance with such blindness put upon them by God, according to Divine Principle:

Deuteronomy 29:4
Yet the Lord hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.

Unbelief is just as much from The Lord as belief.

The Sadducees, for instance, did not believe in an afterlife.

See the Divine Principle. Everything that is, seen or unseen, is under His Direct Control and Oversight.

 

[GodsGrace]

Many try to insert "freewill" meaning their abilities to "resist" God and "make decisions on their own" apart from any workings of Divine Providence and Power. I would simply say that sight is given to them by God. It doesn't mean God was extracted from the insertions of those claims, which makes it difficult to remedy for those who think it so. But, IF in fact God gave them that mindset, who am I to say otherwise. And we could go right on down the list, from a believer who holds God Sovereign in "all things" to an unbeliever who believes in nothing. A sight of Divine Sovereignty will see ALL of it, from God. An unbeliever will see NONE of it from God.

Stack up everything else in between the extremes.

To me, it's ALL from God, according to the scriptures.



I believe "all things" serve Gods Own Purposes. And that He Is and Will Remain forever over and above "all things." I also submit to the fact that such sights, in their entirety, does not belong to me, nor will it, ever, but is Permanently Reserved, Entirely in His Hands.


An afterlife or "eternal life" is presented almost immediately in Gen. I don't know how anyone could miss it. Gen. 2:9. And if the blinded Sadducee's did not see it, it was in accordance with such blindness put upon them by God, according to Divine Principle:

Deuteronomy 29:4
Yet the Lord hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.

Unbelief is just as much from The Lord as belief.


See the Divine Principle. Everything that is, seen or unseen, is under His Direct Control and Oversight.

A few comments.
It's very difficult, probably the most difficult thing for a Christian to come to grips with, to reconcile God's sovereignty with free will.
We cannot deny God's sovereignty and we cannot deny free will. We just need to quote a scripture that works for many different
concepts:
John 3:16
If John 3.16 is the truth, then WE have the free will to choose or not choose God.

And if we do not have free will as to other choices and we sin, well then, we are not responsible for our sin, are we?
And no one would go to hell. That would mean you believe in universalism. I cannot believe that either since Jesus spoke a lot about being lost and hell, whatever that may be. Where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
The Wedding Banquet
Mathew 22:13

I have come to a reconciliation that works for me. But it's personal and cannot be supported by scripture.
However, it cannot be ALL from God. God has a nature. He cannot act against His nature. (I wrote regarding this in the Foundation forum but it is not, of course, my idea) Do you believe God has an evil nature?

I repeat again, that there's a difference between CAUSING evil and ALLOWING evil.
I think you agree, but it's not very clear.

As far as Genesis is concerned: Is Genesis history, or is it God's way of explaining to us how sin ruined His plan for man?
I've been taught that real history begins with Abraham.
I'm NOT saying that the first man and woman were not created by God.

Wondering

 

[smaller]

A few comments.
It's very difficult, probably the most difficult thing for a Christian to come to grips with, to reconcile God's sovereignty with free will.
We cannot deny God's sovereignty and we cannot deny free will.

I, personally, don't believe it is legitimate.

I do believe that any thought any person has is given to them by God. In that "thought arena" are thoughts, both good and evil, that no person really has any choice in, as both factually exist in ALL. And that, by God's Own Making.

We just need to quote a scripture that works for many different
concepts:
John 3:16
If John 3.16 is the truth, then WE have the free will to choose or not choose God.

And if we do not have free will as to other choices and we sin, well then, we are not responsible for our sin, are we?

I don't believe that God "is in need" of anything from "us." That is a fallacy thought, but I accept such thoughts are from God, also.

And no one would go to hell. That would mean you believe in universalism.

I believe no different than Paul gives us to believe. The universal destruction of the wicked is a universal fact as well. Not "all" receive Gods Mercy in Christ. Romans 9:18-24.

The notions that God, His Work and His Ways are only "valid and validated" in and by those who think it so is not on my radar at all.

God will extract whatever it is that pleases Him and Him Alone, from His Own creation. Rev. 4:11. Far be it from me to outguess Perfection.

I cannot believe that either since Jesus spoke a lot about being lost and hell, whatever that may be. Where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I don't deny eternal torture in the LoF. I might not be inclined to make judgments of "who" will be therein without proof. I think we can say with no uncertainty that the devil and his messengers will be occupants. But we have no examples of any named person therein. I believe that the possibility of Overwhelming Grace to MAN can not reasonably be ruled out. Which sight is held by many in orthodoxy as well as some in determinism. I hold to that sight.

However, it cannot be ALL from God.

There is nothing in creation that doesn't come from God.

God has a nature. He cannot act against His nature.

To say that is to claim that the Creator can not create things other than Himself. That simply won't hold scriptural water. Creation by it's lesser nature is quite in fact LESS than God and The Creator, as such, has every right of His Own Determination to make "any thing" less than Himself.

(I wrote regarding this in the Foundation forum but it is not, of course, my idea) Do you believe God has an evil nature?

God can make any thing and any power and NOT BE that which is created. It is entirely disingenuous theology to make The Creator into the "created." There is "no thing" in creation that we can say is what God Is. He Is Far Above and beyond any "thing." There are no equations to be had.

I repeat again, that there's a difference between CAUSING evil and ALLOWING evil.
I think you agree, but it's not very clear.

If there is any "thing" in creation, anything, it is from The Creator. We wouldn't even be having the conversation without The Creator.

As far as Genesis is concerned: Is Genesis history, or is it God's way of explaining to us how sin ruined His plan for man?

God quite precisely made the first/natural man to fail. And has intentions for a last man. 1 Cor. 15:42-46.

I've been taught that real history begins with Abraham.
I'm NOT saying that the first man and woman were not created by God.

I don't see the scriptures as a history lesson. HIStory lesson is more precise. HIStory tells me He gives "all things" to "all." And in that HIStory, many "things" find their ending.

 

[jasonc]

I agree with everything you've stated.
What did I say differently?
Do you believe God created evil because the O.T. says so?
Then we also cannot believe in an afterlife since that idea did not
exist in the Old Testament but is a new idea that came with Jesus' teachings.
The Sadducees, for instance, did not believe in an afterlife.

Kindly explain that statement of Martha that she believed that Lazarus would be raised in the last day? And job beloved that he would see God with his eyes again. They didn't have the full revelation but they had hope.

Please do try read up on Jewish afterrify trachings.it's not all incorrect.I learned alot from reading and perform the kaddish.when the moshaic comes all jews shall be raised to life in Isreal and shall live in isreal for a thousand years.I recited those words three funurals

 

[GodsGrace]

Jason
Too late here.
Tomorrow for you and Smaller.
The Sadducees did not believe in an afterlife...
Night.

 

[jasonc]

Jason
Too late here.
Tomorrow for you and Smaller.
The Sadducees did not believe in an afterlife...
Night.

Those are not the descedents of the person's who were formed by the early sanhedrin after the diaspora .the pharisees and essenes did teach an afterlife.

 

[GodsGrace]

Those are not the descedents of the person's who were formed by the early sanhedrin after the diaspora .the pharisees and essenes did teach an afterlife.

I know. That's why I didn't mention the Pharisees.
I don't remember the point of this right now!!
Too sleepy.

 

[jasonc]

I know. That's why I didn't mention the Pharisees.
I don't remember the point of this right now!!
Too sleepy.

You implied that all Hebrews and the tanach and mishna teach that there was no afterlife .

Gan eden ,it's mentioned in Rev 5.to him that overcometh will I sit down with the garden. That's nutshell of what Jews teach that paradise is.to be with G-D in the garden forever.

 

[GodsGrace]

You implied that all Hebrews and the tanach and mishna teach that there was no afterlife .

Gan eden ,it's mentioned in Rev 5.to him that overcometh will I sit down with the garden. That's nutshell of what Jews teach that paradise is.to be with G-D in the garden forever.

Rev was written by John.

 

[jasonc]

Rev was written by John.

Who quoted Jesus .John being a jew of course.

 

[eddif]

Acts 23:6 KJV
But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.

Sometimes necessity goes strange places.

eddif

 

[Jim Parker]

If God had written his laws into man's flesh then no man could die without incurring additional sin since dying would violate God's 6th commandment 'Thou Shall Not Kill'.

A better translation would be "Thou shall not murder."
God, who gave that commandment also commanded the Israelites to completely wipe out all the Canaanites (man, women, children) and their herds and flocks too.

iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)


DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

 

[Roro1972]

Paul lays out a Divine Principle for us, here:

Acts 17:
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

If we accept the Principle, it is pointless to draw "exceptions" to the rule. There are no exceptions available. He Is Lord of "all things." And does give to ALL, all things.

We might like to make our list of things we do not see under His Rule, but that serves to show a lesser God, and not The God of "all" and of "all things." And yes, most of us will struggle in such sights, trying to extract "evil and death" from the equations, where no subtractions exist.

this one verse is clear
Isa 45: 7
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

 

[OzSpen]

this one verse is clear
Isa 45: 7
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Speaking of the Lord, 'I ... create evil' (KJV) is not a good translation. That one verse does not give us a doctrine of theodicy - the vindication of God in the midst of evil in our world.

The KJV translates Isa 45:7 (KJV) as, “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things”.

The ESV reads, “I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things”.

According to the KJV, God creates good (light, peace) and evil (see also Jer. 18:11; Lam. 3:38; Amos 3:6). But there are other Scriptures that state that there is no darkness in God (e.g. 1 John 1:5 ESV). Hab. 1:13 (ESV) states that “You who are of purer eyes than to see evil”. James 1:13 (ESV) confirms that “God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one”. So where does this leave us?

We know that God is morally perfect (see Deut. 32:4; Matt. 5:48). God cannot sin (Heb. 6:18). But there is more to the attributes of God, including his absolute justice that requires that sin be punished by Him. So, there will be judgment by God in this life and eternally (Matt. 25:41; Rev. 20:11-15). So, in this life, when God executes justice we sometimes call this “evil” because from our human perspective, God seems to be committing evil against these people and nations.

Were the Indonesian tsunami and the Joplin MO twister examples of God’s “evil” actions?



Civilians from town of Ohrdruf were forced to view the bodies [of Holocaust victims]

So, did God create the evil of the Holocaust? If we accept the KJV translation of Isa 45:7, we would have to relegate Hitler's evil to God's actions.

Check the meaning of ra in my article, Isaiah 45:7: Who or what is the origin of evil?

Oz