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Understanding Salvation.

Watchman 2 said:
Your just repeating yourself. I'm not going to re- respond to the repetition I've already addressed.
Click to expand...

Actually I haven’t posted the scripture from Matthew 9:20-22, in this thread.

Your misrepresenting me.

Why?


JLB
 
Watchman 2 said:
Correcting my understanding would be nicer. I'm always looking to know Christ better.
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How does obedience to what God says, and surrendering to Him differ from your perspective?



JLB
 
for_his_glory said:
Just because I do not agree with you and give scripture for what it already says does not mean I am misrepresenting you, but trying to discuss with you by using scripture which you do not want to use. This is not a "I'm right, your wrong" forum, but a forum where we walk in unity towards each other as we discuss the topics even if we do disagree at times. When one does not give their source, especially with scripture, then everything becomes speculation and one's own opinion for what they speak. You are never going to force anyone to believe you. Did Jesus teach by force while here on earth, no, He taught through love and compassion by speaking what God gave Him to speak and do.
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Actually from what I see that you believe, it seems to align with his perspective of a surrendered life.

You believe in obedience to Christ.


I don’t really understand why he rejects what we say, and why he thinks it’s so different?


What am I missing?


JLB
 
JLB said:
How does obedience to what God says, and surrendering to Him differ from your perspective?



JLB
Click to expand...

True " obedience" is adhering to a set of rules or mandates in order to fulfill expectations of something in return.

True " surrender" is a choice ! A choice to turn our life and will over to Him and live a life inspired by such surrender. And because we don't see our lives as ours anymore, we have no expectations of anything in return for the surrender.
 
Simply, your understanding leaves " your life and will" still in your possession. My understanding leaves my life and will in God's possession.
 
When someone surrenders to an enemy, do they pull a list of terms or things they want out of their pocket? No, the only expectation is to be a slave to the one surrendered to.
 
JLB said:
Actually from what I see that you believe, it seems to align with his perspective of a surrendered life.

You believe in obedience to Christ.


I don’t really understand why he rejects what we say, and why he thinks it’s so different?


What am I missing?


JLB
Click to expand...

:shrug You aren't missing anything, but someone else certainly is especially when they do not want scripture to be used in the discussion.
 
Watchman 2 said:
True " obedience" is adhering to a set of rules or mandates in order to fulfill expectations of something in return.

True " surrender" is a choice ! A choice to turn our life and will over to Him and live a life inspired by such surrender. And because we don't see our lives as ours anymore, we have no expectations of anything in return for the surrender.
Click to expand...

Obedience to follow the Lord is a choice.

To surrender to Jesus Christ as Lord is to obey Him.


Same thing brother.


Lets please be in unity about these things as there is no reason to nit pick at each when we are saying the same thing.



JLB
 
Watchman 2 said:
When someone surrenders to an enemy, do they pull a list of terms or things they want out of their pocket? No, the only expectation is to be a slave to the one surrendered to.
Click to expand...

No they simply submit and obey what their told to do.

No one here has mentioned anything about a list of rules.


Submit would be the closest word to surrender in the Bible.

Submit -

  1. to arrange under, to subordinate
  2. to subject, put in subjection
  3. to subject one's self, obey
  4. to submit to one's control
  5. to yield to one's admonition or advice
  6. to obey, be subject







JLB
 
Last edited:
JLB said:
No they simply submit and obey what their told to do.

No one here has mentioned anything about a list of rules.


Submit would be the closest word to surrender in the Bible.

Submit -

  1. to arrange under, to subordinate
  2. to subject, put in subjection
  3. to subject one's self, obey
  4. to submit to one's control
  5. to yield to one's admonition or advice
  6. to obey, be subject







JLB
Click to expand...

Pisteuo is closer, used 248 times in the NT. Defined in the Greek dictionary as, " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender."

But I don't use scripture.

Obedience was tried and failed in the old covenant.
We access God today by the new covenant, by Faith, by pisteuo, by a continually surrendered life.
 
Watchman 2 said:
True " obedience" is adhering to a set of rules or mandates in order to fulfill expectations of something in return.

True " surrender" is a choice ! A choice to turn our life and will over to Him and live a life inspired by such surrender. And because we don't see our lives as ours anymore, we have no expectations of anything in return for the surrender.
Click to expand...

What we get in return from being obedient to God and His commands is eternal life with the Father. If one is not obedient then one is not walking in faith or belief in the Father and is none of Christ own.
 
Watchman 2 said:
Obedience was tried and failed in the old covenant.
Click to expand...

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,
Hebrews 5:9


What do you mean by the “old covenant”?


JLB
 
Watchman 2 said:
Pisteuo is closer, used 248 times in the NT. Defined in the Greek dictionary as, " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender."

But I don't use scripture.

Obedience was tried and failed in the old covenant.
We access God today by the new covenant, by Faith, by pisteuo, by a continually surrendered life.
Click to expand...

Maybe you should read and use scripture so you would know the variants of pisteuo found in the Bible. Since you ignored the website I gave you I will post the full here. You refuse to use scripture as what you try to teach does not line up with that which is already spoken by God who gave the Prophets and the Apostles to write down for every generation to learn from as the Holy Spirit reveals all the mysteries of God that He wants revealed to us.

classic.net.bible.org Strong 4100

pisteuo <4100>
pisteuw pisteuo

Pronunciation:pist-yoo'-o
Origin:from 4102
Reference:TDNT - 6:174,849
PrtSpch:v
In Greek:episteuen 1, episteuete 2, episteuon 4, episteusa 1, episteusamen 2, episteusan 22, episteusate 7, episteusav 2, episteusen 14, episteuyh 2, episteuyhn 2, episteuyhsan 1, pepisteuka 2, pepisteukamen 2, pepisteukate 1, pepisteukav 1, pepisteukeisan 1, pepisteuken 2, pepisteukosin 1, pepisteukotav 1, pepisteukotev 2, pepisteukotwn 3, pepisteukwv 1, pepisteumai 2, pisteue 2, pisteuei 3, pisteuein 5, pisteueiv 7, pisteuetai 1, pisteuete 21, pisteuh 2, pisteuhte 5, pisteuomen 6, pisteuonta 1, pisteuontav 4, pisteuontev 6, pisteuonti 4, pisteuontwn 4, pisteuousin 14, pisteusai 6, pisteusantav 1, pisteusantev 8, pisteusantwn 1, pisteusasa 1, pisteusasin 3, pisteusav 2, pisteusei 1, pisteusete 2, pisteushte 8, pisteushv 2, pisteusomen 1, pisteuson 2, pisteusousin 1, pisteusw 2, pisteuswmen 3, pisteuswsin 4, pisteuw 4, pisteuwn 24, pisteuyhnai 1
In NET:believe 43, believed 32, believes 31, do believe 8, have believed 8, you believe 5, we believe 5, believers 4, Do you believe 4, you do believe 4, I believe 4, did believe 4, you believed 3, they believed 3, he believed 3, you may believe 3, had believed 3, to believe 3, did you believe 3, will believe 3, Believe 3, will you believe 2, you will believe 2, may believe 2, he has believed 2, have come to believe 2, you would believe 2, they did believe 2, when believed 2, was entrusted 2, you did believe 2, has believed 2, believing 2, who believe 2, does believe 2, believe in 1, believed on 1, I will believe 1, I believed 1, I am entrusted with a responsibility 1, Have you believed 1, Do believe 1, I have faith 1, I was entrusted 1, after believing 1, You believe 1, They believe 1, are they to believe in 1, have placed faith 1, were entrusted 1, we will believe 1, we became believers 1, to be entrusted 1, who believed 1, who does believe 1, you came to believe 1, would entrust 1, will entrust 1, they still to believe 1, they have believed in 1, faith is set 1, do you believe 1, do we believe 1, had come to believe 1, might believe 1, they had believed 1, they do believe 1, they believe 1, by believing 1
In AV:believe 239, commit unto 4, commit to (one's) trust 1, be committed unto 1, be put in trust with 1, be commit to one's trust 1, believer 1
Count:248
Definition:1) to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place
confidence in
1a) of the thing believed
1a1) to credit, have confidence
1b) in a moral or religious reference
1b1) used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man
is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and
law of soul
1b2) to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in
obtaining or in doing something: saving faith
1bc) mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual
faith
2) to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity
2a) to be intrusted with a thingfrom 4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or
thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially one's
spiritual well-being to Christ):-believe(-r), commit (to trust), put
in trust with.
see GREEK for 4102
 
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