Understanding the GodHead. The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.

[Free]

How many scriptures do you need to prove the one God formula is wrong. I usually say there are over 100 scriptures that prove the one God formula for the Trinity wrong. But if you count these types of scriptures and the “My Father” scriptures it is closer to 200. And some these scriptures say My Father in Heaven which indicate a different person in a different place.

Except that none of the ones you give do so. They support the Trinity as there is no verse in the entire Bible that supports tritheism. There are many that prove tritheism is unbiblical and idolatry:

Gen 1:1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

Deu 4:35 To you it was shown, that you might know that the LORD is God; there is no other besides him.
…
Deu 4:39 know therefore today, and lay it to your heart, that the LORD is God in heaven above and on the earth beneath; there is no other.

Deu 6:4 “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

Deu 32:39 "'See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand.

1Sa 2:2 “There is none holy like the LORD: for there is none besides you; there is no rock like our God.

Isa 43:10 "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.
Isa 43:11 I, I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior.

Isa 44:6 Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.
Isa 44:7 Who is like me? Let him proclaim it. Let him declare and set it before me, since I appointed an ancient people. Let them declare what is to come, and what will happen.
Isa 44:8 Fear not, nor be afraid; have I not told you from of old and declared it? And you are my witnesses! Is there a God besides me? There is no Rock; I know not any.”
…
Isa 44:24 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: "I am the LORD, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself,

Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is no other, besides me there is no God; I equip you, though you do not know me,
Isa 45:6 that people may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the LORD, and there is no other.
…
Isa 45:18 For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (he is God!), who formed the earth and made it (he established it; he did not create it empty, he formed it to be inhabited!): "I am the LORD, and there is no other.
…
Isa 45:21 Declare and present your case; let them take counsel together! Who told this long ago? Who declared it of old? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no other god besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me.
Isa 45:22 "Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.

Isa 46:9 remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me,

Isa 48:11 For my own sake, for my own sake, I do it, for how should my name be profaned? My glory I will not give to another.
Isa 48:12 "Listen to me, O Jacob, and Israel, whom I called! I am he; I am the first, and I am the last.
Isa 48:13 My hand laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; when I call to them, they stand forth together.

Jer 10:10 But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God, the eternal King. When he is angry, the earth trembles; the nations cannot endure his wrath.

Mar 12:29 "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
...
Mar 12:32 And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher. You have truly said that he is one, and there is no other besides him.
...
Mar 12:34 And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And after that no one dared to ask him any more questions.

1Co 8:4 Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.”
1Co 8:5 For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”—
1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call—
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

1Ti 1:17 To the King of the ages, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

Jas 2:19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!

Jud 1:25 to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.

(All ESV)

It's pretty clear to see that there was only one God in the OT and one God in the NT. And when that one God says there was none before him and there will be none after," then we should take him at his word lest we make him out to be a liar, a deceiver, or one who is not omniscient.

These scriptures below prove that the Apostles were united in the belief that there is a difference between God the Father and God the Son….in that they refer to the Father as God and the Son as Lord.

This also answers the question of the belief they had about one true God. Not that Yeshua was not a God but God the Father was unique in that He is God Supreme, God Almighty and the Creator God….no one like Him. So they referred to the Father as God and the Son as Lord.

That the Father and Son are distinct is fully affirmed by the doctrine of the Trinity. Once again, you are not arguing against Trinitarianism, but Modalism. Not a single verse you provide proves that they are two separate Gods; they cannot be, for the reason that there was, is, and ever will be only one God. Hence, why the Trinity makes the most sense of all the biblical revelation.

 

[Grailhunter]

Except that none of the ones you give do so.

LOL

 

[Free]

LOL

You can laugh, but they don't. They do show a distinction between the Father and the Son, but, again, that is fully affirmed by Trinitarianism. Since the Father is divine, the Son is divine, and the Holy Spirit is divine, yet there was, is, and ever will be only one God, which is why only the Trinity makes sense of it all.

 

[Grailhunter]

They support the Trinity as there is no verse in the entire Bible that supports tritheism. There are many that prove tritheism is unbiblical and idolatry:

Total about 150 and I already gave them to you.

 

[Grailhunter]

Isa 48:11 For my own sake, for my own sake, I do it, for how should my name be profaned? My glory I will not give to another.
Isa 48:12 "Listen to me, O Jacob, and Israel, whom I called! I am he; I am the first, and I am the last.
Isa 48:13 My hand laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; when I call to them, they stand forth together.

I have posted these Old Testament scriptures and we both agree that there is only one God in the Old Testament scriptures and we have went over that again and again and again and again….

And I have already explained that the Apostles saw the God Yahweh as the “true God” and God Yeshua as Lord….again and again and again. You are starting to bore me.

The same thing over and over and over and over again.

Doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.

 

[Grailhunter]

That the Father and Son are distinct is fully affirmed by the doctrine of the Trinity. Once again, you are not arguing against Trinitarianism, but Modalism. Not a single verse you provide proves that they are two separate Gods; they cannot be, for the reason that there was, is, and ever will be only one God. Hence, why the Trinity makes the most sense of all the biblical revelation.

And again I laugh at you.

 

[Grailhunter]

You can laugh, but they don't. They do show a distinction between the Father and the Son, but, again, that is fully affirmed by Trinitarianism. Since the Father is divine, the Son is divine, and the Holy Spirit is divine, yet there was, is, and ever will be only one God, which is why only the Trinity makes sense of it all.

No the one God formula does make sense....Never has and never will.

 

[hawkman]

Not that Yeshua was not a God but God the Father was unique in that He is God Supreme, God Almighty and the Creator God….no one like Him. So they referred to the Father as God and the Son as Lord.

You seem to have a ranking system for God the Father , Jesus and the Holy Spirit .

Can you give them to me in your order of supremacy , 1, 2 and 3 ?

If you were standing before God the Father , Jesus and the Holy Spirit would you treat one different from another ?

 

[Grailhunter]

If you were standing before God the Father , Jesus and the Holy Spirit would you treat one different from another ?

No all the same. I am just a gnat.

But Christ had a opinion.

The Father is greater than I
John 14:28

 

[hawkman]

No all the same.

Exactly .

But Christ had a opinion.

The Father is greater than I
John 14:28

So , you have a ranking to offer ?

 

[Grailhunter]

Exactly .

So , you have a ranking to offer ?

Didn't Christ give you one....
As far as the Holy Spirit we don't not even know the name of the Holy Spirit.
So your guess is as good as mine.

 

[hawkman]

Didn't Christ give you one....

A space in time . Christ was speaking to the Apostles while He was on earth . I was not there .

As far as the Holy Spirit we don't not even know the name of the Holy Spirit.

You don't know the name , let me enlighten you .

Author of Scripture

Comforter / Counselor / Advocate

Convicter of Sin

Deposit / Seal / Earnest

Guide

Indweller of Believers

Intercessor

Revealer / Spirit of Truth

Spirit of God / the Lord / Christ

Spirit of Life

Teacher

Witness

What are the names and titles of the Holy Spirit?

 

[Grailhunter]

A space in time . Christ was speaking to the Apostles while He was on earth . I was not there .

You don't know the name , let me enlighten you .

Author of Scripture

Comforter / Counselor / Advocate

Convicter of Sin

Deposit / Seal / Earnest

Guide

Indweller of Believers

Intercessor

Revealer / Spirit of Truth

Spirit of God / the Lord / Christ

Spirit of Life

Teacher

Witness

What are the names and titles of the Holy Spirit?

These are not names. But good try.

 

[hawkman]

These are not names. But good try.

But are they true ?

 

[Grailhunter]

But are they true ?

As far as descriptions they are accurate.

 

[Free]

Total about 150 and I already gave them to you.

No, you haven't given a single one, as I've pointed out before. You keep making arguments against Modalism, not Trinitarianism.

I have posted these Old Testament scriptures and we both agree that there is only one God in the Old Testament scriptures and we have went over that again and again and again and again….

Yes, but you ignore one important one:

Isa 43:10 "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.

You have left this one completely untouched, and it's easy to see why. It makes your OT god either a liar, a deceiver, or lacking in knowledge. Any which way, he cannot be the God of the Bible.

True Christianity has monotheism as one of its foundations--one God in the OT who is also the same God in the NT.

And I have already explained that the Apostles saw the God Yahweh as the “true God” and God Yeshua as Lord….again and again and again. You are starting to bore me.

The same thing over and over and over and over again.

We have to go over things repeatedly because you repeatedly dismiss verses and arguments without addressing them. You have only explained that you believe in three gods, without providing biblical support, and without addressing the clear verses that claim there is only one God:

Mar 12:29 "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
...
Mar 12:32 And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher. You have truly said that he is one, and there is no other besides him.
...
Mar 12:34 And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And after that no one dared to ask him any more questions.

So, you also make Jesus either a liar, a deceiver, or lacking in knowledge. And Paul:

1Co 8:4 Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.”
1Co 8:5 For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”—
1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

1Ti 1:17 To the King of the ages, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

And James:

Jas 2:19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!

And Jude:

Jud 1:25 to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.

(All ESV.)

Why is it that all those NT writers and Jesus say there is only one God, in agreement with the OT, but you say there are three Gods? Yahweh said there wouldn't be another and yet you believe two more came along. You believe there is only one God in the OT, which is correct, but it is just as clear in the NT that there still is that one God.

 

[Grailhunter]

No, you haven't given a single one, as I've pointed out before. You keep making arguments against Modalism, not Trinitarianism.

I have explained this ten ways to Sunday. I am sure that a ten year old could understand it.

Ask the exact question that you are confused about.

 

[Grailhunter]

Isa 43:10 "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.

You have left this one completely untouched, and it's easy to see why. It makes your OT god either a liar, a deceiver, or lacking in knowledge. Any which way, he cannot be the God of the Bible.

I have posted this scripture and those like it in the Old Testament.
I am not saying Yahweh was lying....He was the only God in the Old Testament.

But you will not find anything like these scriptures in the New Testament.
Over and over and over and over.
Post 263
Please if you cannot read please get someone to help you.

 

[Grailhunter]

Why is it that all those NT writers and Jesus say there is only one God, in agreement with the OT,

Posts 163…..370…..385

Again I have already addressed this question.

Why do you keep repeating yourself?

Get some help.

 

[Free]

Posts 163…..

Nope, that doesn't address the fact that Jesus and the NT writers affirm that there is only one God.

370…..

Not there either.

385

Nor there.

Again I have already addressed this question.

Why do you keep repeating yourself?

Because you haven't actually addressed it at all, apart from perhaps by fallaciously begging the question. You have shown that there is a distinction between the Father and the Son, which is foundational to Trinitarianism, and perhaps in some of those passages that the Son is divine, which is also foundational to Trinitarianism. As such, your arguments mainly address Modalism, not Trinitarianism, as I have had to point out numerous times.

But not a single verse shows that Jesus is a separate God. Your posts do not show why it is that both Jesus and the NT writers affirm over and over that there is only one God, in agreement with the OT.