Understanding The Law Of Moses - With The Help Of The Prophets And The Apostles

[GodsGrace]

It is an action you do not think through each time.

Once learned it is automatic.
As a heart beat?

Not mind, but heart.

eddif

Sure.
Like THOU SHALT NOT STEAL is an action you don't even consider after a time.
It's like a heartbeat.

Would a new Christian in the heart of an African village know he's is no longer supposed to steal?

 

[eddif]

I thought I had already replied to the above.

You cannot list all the things you should DO.
It's like the law of a country/state/region.
It would be impossible.

You can only list what you should NOT DO.
It's easier.

And a law is not a concept.
The concept is the reason behind it.

Commandments contained in ordinances, Can be listed.

The ox not muzzled - symbolized Jesus worthy of Our offering / sacrifice of praise.
The sacrificial lamb symbolized Jesus.
Ox - plowman, planter, preacher, etc.

I just listed 10 things we can do
( if you want to be ticky)

eddif

 

[eddif]

Commandments contained in ordinances, Can be listed.

The ox not muzzled - symbolized Jesus worthy of Our offering / sacrifice of praise.
The sacrificial lamb symbolized Jesus.
Ox - plowman, planter, preacher, etc.

I just listed 10 things we can do
( if you want to be ticky)

eddif

The ox mention is negative
Pay preacher positive
Reward plowman positive
Reward waterer
etc.

eddif

 

[eddif]

Sure.
Like THOU SHALT NOT STEAL is an action you don't even consider after a time.
It's like a heartbeat.

Would a new Christian in the heart of an African village know he's is no longer supposed to steal?

Thou shall nots have to be repeated. Ask those in the wilderness.

Thou shalls are an inward work of the quickening / life giving Spirit in us. Ask Paul.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[GodsGrace]

Thou shall nots have to be repeated. Ask those in the wilderness.

Thou shalls are an inward work of the quickening / life giving Spirit in us. Ask Paul.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

I don't agree.
What does Paul say?
In every single letter he wrote, he made a list of things we should not do.

Should I list them?
Or are you aware of this?

 

[Thekjv]

You think tying a shoelace is a concept?
You said that a concept is an idea or thought.
Why not just stick to that and be ahead?

Tying one's shoelaces is an action.

Before any action there has to be a thought or Idea or concept.
Merriam Webster

concept​

1 of 2

noun​

con·cept
Cambridge Dictionary
concept
an idea, theory, etc. about a particular subject:

1: something conceived in the mind : thought, notion

Then one can break down the concept ( idea, theory. thoughts ) into understandable parts of the whole.
Kids and parents sometime spend a tear or more getting the kid to learn to tie a shoe. If broken down to kids level a kid can learn in 30 minutes or less.

 

[GodsGrace]

Before any action there has to be a thought or Idea or concept.
Merriam Webster

concept​

1 of 2

noun​

con·cept
Cambridge Dictionary
concept
an idea, theory, etc. about a particular subject:

1: something conceived in the mind : thought, notion

Then one can break down the concept ( idea, theory. thoughts ) into understandable parts of the whole.
Kids and parents sometime spend a tear or more getting the kid to learn to tie a shoe. If broken down to kids level a kid can learn in 30 minutes or less.

I can't debate what a word means Thekjv.

But look at it this way:
EVERYTHING starts in the brain and is an idea.
When I sat down to type this it was an idea I had in my head and now I'm doing it.

Let's look at the meaning again:

noun

1. an abstract idea.
   "structuralism is a difficult concept"
   
   
   
   
   
   ***************************************************
   noun
   
   1. a general notion or idea; conception.
   2. an idea of something formed by mentally combining all its characteristics or particulars; a construct.
      
      
      
      
      **********************************************
      
   
   A. In general usage the term mainly denotes 'idea' or 'notion'. It is envisaged as an abstract or psychological thing presupposing conscious minds which at least potentially 'have' the concept, i.e., understand it, operate with it, apply it, etc. In philosophy and the social sciences (and other sciences too) concepts enter as (a) the most general tools of inquiry as such and as (b) the content or object of some specific inquiries, notably in comparative studies. What follows refers principally to (a) rather than (b).
   The nature of concepts, and their relation to the things 'of which they are the concepts', and to the minds which use or contemplate them, are among the most hotly disputed subject in philosophy. The present definition is not intended to prejudge or settle any of these issues, even if limitations of space make it appear to do so.
   
   B. Defined as an aspect of thought, a concept is a kind of unit in terms of which one thinks; a unit smaller than a judgement, proposition, or theory, but one which necessarily enters into these. In an assertion, something is predicated of a concept, and the predicate itself can generally be re-described as a concept. At the same time, however, the concept is by no means an ultimate or indivisible unit, for concepts can be augmented or diminished by addition or subtraction of some feature. (For instance, one may say that someone's concept of social class does, or fails to, include the notion of differences in material rewards.) Moreover, while concepts occur within assertions or theories and are thus distinct from them, a proposition or theory or thesis as a whole can in turn be referred to as a further concept. For instance, R.Firth writes that 'some of Dr. Leach's concepts are of a special order…I refer to his thesis that seeking for power is the basis of social choice' (Foreword to E.R. Leach, Political Systems of Highland Burma, London: G. Bell, 1954, p. vii).
   
   C. Concepts correspond to or 'are the meaning of' all meaningful words, with certain qualifications: (a) only one concept corresponds to two or more words with the same meaning; (b) there is a tendency to speak of concepts only with regard to words which do, or at least can, refer either to something that can exist or be imagined or to an operation that can be performed, and not in connection with words whose role is grammatical rather than designative (for instance, one may speak of the concept of sovereignty, of infinity, of addition, but not of the concept of 'and' - though one must add that the drawing of the lines beetween these kinds of meaning is difficult, unsettled, and controversial part of philosophy: (c) there is a tendency to speak of concepts in connection with general rather than singular terms (one is unlikely to speak of a 'concpet of John' or of a 'concpet of London'; in those cases the term 'conception' is more likely to be used. There are, however, exceptions, e.g., 'the concept of God').
   
   The fact that concepts may be seen as the meanings of terms should not lead one to suppose that concepts are in some narrow sense linguistic entities: although concepts may be defined in terms of the rules governing the use of the words said to designate them, those rules determine (a) what things in the world are classed together (as 'falling' under the same concept'), (b) what features are grouped together (as 'being various characteristics of the same thing'), (c) what operations of measurement, classification, discrimination, etc., are performed by the man 'using the concept', and so on.
   
   D. Discussions of concepts in the social sciences tend to be a matter of the choice of terms and, more importantly, of their definitions. One may talk both of discovering and of inventing concepts; also of changing and developing concepts. In as far as given theories require certain concepts, and in as far as concepts can be said to incorporate theories, there is no sharp line between choice of theories and choice of concepts. Nevertheless, whole theories are thought of primarily as true or false, concepts are more naturally described as applicable or inapplicable, valid or invalid, useful or useless.
   
   Taken from A Dictionary of the Social Sciences eds. J. Gould and W. Kolb, Free Press, 1964.
   
   *******************************************************

 

[eddif]

I don't agree.
What does Paul say?
In every single letter he wrote, he made a list of things we should not do.

Should I list them?
Or are you aware of this?

Philippians 2:13
13. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Put on the full armor of God. A list of positive things. Positive against evil.


The law was for sinners. Without the law there is no knowledge of sin. Today those
OT laws are still used to identify sin. There are still those who need to repent and believe in Christ Jesus.the law is used lawfully for that,


Our tools are the law used lawfully. And Christ in us, and the gifts of the Holy Spirit.


The letters to the churches listed /praised good.

The letters to the Churches condemned evil.

Use the law lawfully.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[GodsGrace]

Philippians 2:13
13. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Put on the full armor of God. A list of positive things. Positive against evil.


The law was for sinners. Without the law there is no knowledge of sin. Today those
OT laws are still used to identify sin. There are still those who need to repent and believe in Christ Jesus.the law is used lawfully for that,


Our tools are the law used lawfully. And Christ in us, and the gifts of the Holy Spirit.


The letters to the churches listed /praised good.

The letters to the Churches condemned evil.

Use the law lawfully.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

We're going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[eddif]

I will do my best to put my carnal mind to death, and seek the mind of Christ.

Quoting about the use of Moses law lawfully, and seek to understand the law placed in a new heart of flesh, and the law placed in the spirit of of our mind.

Mississippi redneck.
eddif

 

[eddif]

This thread is not meant to be a battle field. This is an age old discussion, that can get out of hand. If I get out of line remove me. The Moderators and Administrators may drop by at any time, and can ask for clarification at any time (ten times in a row if necessary). Forum rules will apply.
Jewish background people are welcome, gentile background peoples are welcome, Christian background people are welcome, Sons and Daughters are welcome.
Scriptures are really needed. Traditions will be discussed.

That said. This thread is not trying to get anyone circumcised or follow the law of Moses. But. We may discuss all aspects and why for a time it was done. The reasons why will be discussed.

Matthew 5:17 kjv
17. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

Maybe we can return to peace.

Matthew 5:17 kjv
17. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

That is in the OP.

Jesus was born under the law.

Where is we now? LOL

Mississippi redneck.
eddif

 

[GodsGrace]

I will do my best to put my carnal mind to death, and seek the mind of Christ.

Quoting about the use of Moses law lawfully, and seek to understand the law placed in a new heart of flesh, and the law placed in the spirit of of our mind.

Mississippi redneck.
eddif

I came across the following and thought I'd post it here.
It's pretty much what I believe about the Law.
It's written by John Piper. I don't agree with him theologically,
but his writings are very good.

I think that sometimes we post to a member, but, and I've said this many times,
speaking about spiritual matters is not easy.

How to Use the Law Lawfully to Bear Fruit for God

Meditate on the law in order to know the justice and mercy of God in Christ, your righteousness and your life.

www.desiringgod.org

 

[eddif]

Philippians 2:13 kjv
13. For God is the One working in you both to will and to work according to His good pleasure.

The inward work of the law in our new heart and mind.

We can identify sin using the law of Moses.

eddif

 

[Thekjv]

I can't debate what a word means Thekjv.

But look at it this way:
EVERYTHING starts in the brain and is an idea.
When I sat down to type this it was an idea I had in my head and now I'm doing it.

Let's look at the meaning again:

noun

1. an abstract idea.
   "structuralism is a difficult concept"
   
   
   
   
   
   ***************************************************
   noun
   
   1. a general notion or idea; conception.
   2. an idea of something formed by mentally combining all its characteristics or particulars; a construct.
      
      
      
      
      **********************************************
   
   A. In general usage the term mainly denotes 'idea' or 'notion'. It is envisaged as an abstract or psychological thing presupposing conscious minds which at least potentially 'have' the concept, i.e., understand it, operate with it, apply it, etc. In philosophy and the social sciences (and other sciences too) concepts enter as (a) the most general tools of inquiry as such and as (b) the content or object of some specific inquiries, notably in comparative studies. What follows refers principally to (a) rather than (b).
   The nature of concepts, and their relation to the things 'of which they are the concepts', and to the minds which use or contemplate them, are among the most hotly disputed subject in philosophy. The present definition is not intended to prejudge or settle any of these issues, even if limitations of space make it appear to do so.
   
   B. Defined as an aspect of thought, a concept is a kind of unit in terms of which one thinks; a unit smaller than a judgement, proposition, or theory, but one which necessarily enters into these. In an assertion, something is predicated of a concept, and the predicate itself can generally be re-described as a concept. At the same time, however, the concept is by no means an ultimate or indivisible unit, for concepts can be augmented or diminished by addition or subtraction of some feature. (For instance, one may say that someone's concept of social class does, or fails to, include the notion of differences in material rewards.) Moreover, while concepts occur within assertions or theories and are thus distinct from them, a proposition or theory or thesis as a whole can in turn be referred to as a further concept. For instance, R.Firth writes that 'some of Dr. Leach's concepts are of a special order…I refer to his thesis that seeking for power is the basis of social choice' (Foreword to E.R. Leach, Political Systems of Highland Burma, London: G. Bell, 1954, p. vii).
   
   C. Concepts correspond to or 'are the meaning of' all meaningful words, with certain qualifications: (a) only one concept corresponds to two or more words with the same meaning; (b) there is a tendency to speak of concepts only with regard to words which do, or at least can, refer either to something that can exist or be imagined or to an operation that can be performed, and not in connection with words whose role is grammatical rather than designative (for instance, one may speak of the concept of sovereignty, of infinity, of addition, but not of the concept of 'and' - though one must add that the drawing of the lines beetween these kinds of meaning is difficult, unsettled, and controversial part of philosophy: (c) there is a tendency to speak of concepts in connection with general rather than singular terms (one is unlikely to speak of a 'concpet of John' or of a 'concpet of London'; in those cases the term 'conception' is more likely to be used. There are, however, exceptions, e.g., 'the concept of God').
   
   The fact that concepts may be seen as the meanings of terms should not lead one to suppose that concepts are in some narrow sense linguistic entities: although concepts may be defined in terms of the rules governing the use of the words said to designate them, those rules determine (a) what things in the world are classed together (as 'falling' under the same concept'), (b) what features are grouped together (as 'being various characteristics of the same thing'), (c) what operations of measurement, classification, discrimination, etc., are performed by the man 'using the concept', and so on.
   
   D. Discussions of concepts in the social sciences tend to be a matter of the choice of terms and, more importantly, of their definitions. One may talk both of discovering and of inventing concepts; also of changing and developing concepts. In as far as given theories require certain concepts, and in as far as concepts can be said to incorporate theories, there is no sharp line between choice of theories and choice of concepts. Nevertheless, whole theories are thought of primarily as true or false, concepts are more naturally described as applicable or inapplicable, valid or invalid, useful or useless.
   
   Taken from A Dictionary of the Social Sciences eds. J. Gould and W. Kolb, Free Press, 1964.
   
   *******************************************************

tying a shoelace is a complex concept to a 3 or 4 year old not to you or me.

 

[GodsGrace]

tying a shoelace is a complex concept to a 3 or 4 year old not to you or me.

 

[eddif]

Hebrews 9:22 kjv
22. And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Anyone can use another Bible version.

The Law of Moses shed animal blood (in a cerimony) for the yearly (?)!sacrifice for the sins of Israel.

Jesus once shed his blood (fulfilling the law).

Hebrews 9:9 kjv
9. Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10. Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
11. But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12. Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
(For us added in King James Version)
13. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14. How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15. And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Jesus fulfilled the law

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[eddif]

tying a shoelace is a complex concept to a 3 or 4 year old not to you or me.

Let us return to the discussion of the law and its Fulfillment by Jesus.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[eddif]

1 Peter 2:24 kjv
24. Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Linked

Isaiah 53:5 kjv
5. But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Jesus fulfilled the prophetic state made in the time of the law.

Mississippi redneck
eddif