How is that relevant?If you only knew how defective the word elohim is. Jesus uses the Aramaic form El. What gives?
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Unique, Not Only-Begotten
- Thread starter SolaScriptura
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The Aramaic syntax is used; and El is suggested by the NT to be the generic word God, though Elohim is used similar.
Carry_Your_Name
Member
Job would be envious of us who have access to God through his special revelation of Jesus.
I am envious of Job.
This has nothing to do with the discussion. Please keep on topic.
Carry_Your_Name
Member
Thomas did not take the Lord's name in vain.
you have put all things in subjection under his feet. - Heb. 2:8
My point is that you're mocking God with this post.
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction. (Prov. 1:7)
Yes he claimed to be YHWH, that's God, the one and only.
Himself. "He taught them as One having authority, and not as the scribes." (Matt. 7:29)
Carry_Your_Name
Member
You wouldn't, if you had lost your possession, your family, your health, and your closest friends are admonishing you and condemning you.
This is really the heart of the matter. After all of the theology is said and done, there is an elephant in the room with Trinitarianism. The idolatry of having a created human being in place of Lord God Almighty is obvious.
It seems that you don’t understand Trinitarianism. This is the second time you’ve made a straw man argument regarding it. Jesus is both God and man—two natures—God in human flesh, as has been said several times. In no way whatsoever is it simply “having a created human in place of Lord God Almighty.”
If you’re going to argue against Trinitarian, at least try and understand it first.
The context is spelled out in all 3 categories.
The creation -The firstborn of all creation; before all things; the beginning of the creation of God
all things were brought into existence through Him whether visible or invisible on earth and in heaven.
the resurrection-the beginning of that resurrection and the firstborn from the dead as in the first to rise from the dead in that resurrection
The Church - And he is the head of the body, the church
Calling what I said a strawman argument isn't a rebuttal. A human being worshipped as your personal God is rank idolatry and it's a sin. There should be the red flag that Jesus isn't himself God. He was never worshipped in the Bible as God.
The hypostatic union isn't true. Jesus isn't a God Man and if he was then he wouldn't be the definitive God and his god side would still be joined with his man side. It's still idol worship. There isn't a place for your doctrines in the Bible, hence why they continue to be exposed as false.
All things isn't literally all things. If it can be shown elsewhere that Jesus isn't involved in creation then there is no reason to contradict it. For example, Acts 4:24, Peter and John prayed to the Sovereign Lord and creator of the heavens and earth. In verses 27 and 30, while still praying to the Sovereign Lord, they refer to Jesus and His servant.
As I continue to say, Colossians 1:15-20 is regarding a specific context. Sometimes they kind of exaggerate, but this would have been clear to the original recipients of Paul's letter. Many centuries removed from the context and what the Colossians actually believed in, it shouldn't be interpreted as a man being the creator. They all knew Jesus was a man. They wouldn't have inferred or deduced what you're trying to say.
Paul is exagerrating a bit. See just a few verse later in verse 23. The gospel has definitely not been preached to literally every creature under heaven. There is a specific context to all of this.
23if indeed you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope of the gospel you heard, which has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
Again, this is a straw man argument. And, yes, that is a rebuttal. It means your argument is fallacious and irrational. Jesus is both truly God and truly man, as he himself has attested to and as other inspired writers of the NT attest to.
No my reasoning is sound and coherent. A human being, which is what Jesus is, is not God under any circumstances. Please pray about this.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Just 3 questions/comments on the above:
1. You say you don't worship Jesus as God but for the glory of God Father.
you posted Philippians 2:10-11
It's very nice that you bow your knee to Jesus who is Lord.
So you're an idol worshipper? Just as I said.
2. You said the gospel is not worshipping Jesus to be saved. Then...
WHAT IS THE GOSPEL??
3. WHY did God raise Jesus from the dead?
No, it isn't. You've given at least two straw man arguments, which strongly suggest you don't actually know what the doctrine of the Trinity teaches. Please go learn what the doctrine actually teaches before continuing to try and debate whether or not you think it's biblical.
This fallaciously begging the question.
No need to. Your reasoning is poor as your arguments are not sound.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
One question for you 7thMoon:
Why was Paul preaching in all of his travels?
Was it to teach people about God?
Or was it to teach people about Jesus?
This pertains to your verse of Acts 17:29
What exactly do you think it means??
But there is more than one.
Of course.
Of course.
He was converting people to the Israelite religion. He was also preparing Israel, and God-fearers for an Enochian evacuation. Act 17:29 says what gods should not be compared to graven models and blueprints of men. God's greatness is more than this. God is greater than Jesus.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
I realized this.
Sorry!
The Apostles taught about God?
Sure. Because they were teaching about Jesus.
Jesus sent the Apostles on the mission to teach the nations what Jesus had taught them.
Matthew 28:19-20
19“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
Jesus told the Apostles to MAKE DISCIPLES.....not to teach them that God exists.
Although some countries were pantheistic, such as Greece, so they had to first teach them about the ONE TRUE GOD. YAHWEH.
Disciples are persons that follow Jesus.
If Jesus is not God, why would anyone want to follow Him?
This would be idolatry.
And Jesus told the Apostles to baptize in the name of THE FATHER, THE SON, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT.
THREE.
3 in ONE GOD.
Pau was converting people to the Israelite Religion?
You mean Paul was trying to make Jews out of the nations?
What is an Enochian Evacuation?
When did this occur?
Do you have scripture for this?
I agree with your understanding of Acts 17.29 except that you use the word GODS, I think you meant GOD....that God is not to be compared with the gods of the greeks that were made of gold, silver, concrete, marble, and whatever else.
(graven images that were worshipped).
However I don't know how you understand from this that God is greater than Jesus.
Did they have a graven image of Jesus in Athens?
That doesn't negate that God created through and by Jesus where it is clearly shown.
Col 1:15-20 speaks for itself. It highlights the supremacy of Christ in regard to Jesus as before all things. The creation of all those things through Him, The resurrection, The Church. We take it as truth not exaggeration. I have no reason to believe the audience who first received that letter didn't accept it as Paul stated. Do you have any proof of that?
How could this be made clearer for any audience? For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
You simply do not believe what was written. Otherwise, you would be proclaiming it as so.
How about here? And if not then just as you reason not in the Supremacy of Christ either.
But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel.