Unique, Not Only-Begotten

[Free]

Unitarians follow sola scriptura.

Except that they don’t. To repeat, there isn’t one verse in the Bible that explicitly or directly states God is an absolute unity (one person; unitarian).

According to your peoples' Athanasian Creed the god is the substance or essence divided among the members of the trinity.

That is not what it says:

1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;
2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;
4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.

https://ccel.org/creeds/athanasian.creed.html

When we speak of the trinity doctrine we should be careful to define what it is we are talking about. It's not something in the Bible. It has to be supported by a creed.

Creeds are summations of what the Bible teaches. And the doctrine of the Trinity best takes into account all that the Bible reveals about the nature of God.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Why not though?

"You shall not take the Lord's name in vain."

It's wordy enough that it doesn't have to be interpreted the way you do. I take into account the broader context to inform how to understand something.

The broader context is that Jesus is exalted above all immortal angels, let alone mortal men.

Hey, you're the one who said I deserved a backhanded comment. Just own it.

"Ask and you shall receive."

Numbers 23:19 says God isn't a man. Can you explain that please?

No, God isn't a man, but he can surely manifest as a man in order to communicate with mankind. The difference is beyond your comprehension.

It's certainly provocative since it denies that Jesus is the begotten son of God.

No, it aims at translation, not theology. Again, the difference is beyond your comprehension.

In Exodus 3:14,15 the I AM is YHWH. In Acts 3:13, Jesus is His servant. Not the same person.

I would offer you that John 8:58 isn't a reference to deity.

I would offer you that it is, YHWH is God's one and only personal name. Not alone did Jesus claim to be A god, He claimed to be THE God. That's what enraged his listeners when Jesus claimed that he is I AM, they took it as blasphemy.

??

What did I tell God to do?

That he can't manifest himself in form of a man, a lowly carpenter from Nazerath, yet with the authority of God.

 

[7thMoon]

That he can't manifest himself in form of a man.

As if he did, and as if it is necessary for God to do so.

 

[7thMoon]

Except that they don’t. To repeat, there isn’t one verse in the Bible that explicitly or directly states God is an absolute unity (one person; unitarian).

Megillah 9a:12-- "And they wrote for him: God created in the beginning [bereshit], reversing the order of the words in the first phrase in the Torah that could be misinterpreted as: “Bereshit created God” (Genesis 1:1). They did so to negate those who believe in the preexistence of the world and those who maintain that there are two powers in the world: One is Bereshit, who created the second, God. And they wrote: I shall make man in image and in likeness, rather than: “Let us make man in our image and in our likeness” (Genesis 1:26), as from there too one could mistakenly conclude that there are multiple powers, and that God has human form."

Megillah 9a:14 -- "Instead of: “Come, let us go down, and there confound their language” (Genesis 11:7), which indicates multiple authorities, they wrote in the singular: Come, let me go down, and there confound their language."

These are quotes from the original LXX in the Talmud.

 

[Free]

Megillah 9a:12-- "And they wrote for him: God created in the beginning [bereshit], reversing the order of the words in the first phrase in the Torah that could be misinterpreted as: “Bereshit created God” (Genesis 1:1). They did so to negate those who believe in the preexistence of the world and those who maintain that there are two powers in the world: One is Bereshit, who created the second, God. And they wrote: I shall make man in image and in likeness, rather than: “Let us make man in our image and in our likeness” (Genesis 1:26), as from there too one could mistakenly conclude that there are multiple powers, and that God has human form."

Megillah 9a:14 -- "Instead of: “Come, let us go down, and there confound their language” (Genesis 11:7), which indicates multiple authorities, they wrote in the singular: Come, let me go down, and there confound their language."

These are quotes from the original LXX in the Talmud.

And this shows what, exactly?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

As if he did, and as if it is necessary for God to do so.

Not necessary for God, but necessary for us.

 

[7thMoon]

And this shows what, exactly?

What the Septuagint and the original Aramaic copies of the Tenak were like.

These are quotes from the original LXX in the Talmud.

 

[7thMoon]

Not necessary for God, but necessary for us.

Why would it be necessary for us? Job didn't need it.

 

[Free]

What the Septuagint and the original Aramaic copies of the Tenak were like.

Okay. What for? What does it have to do with the discussion?

 

[7thMoon]

Okay. What for? What does it have to do with the discussion?

The LXX fragments say that God is one person, and don't follow Rabbinic Hebrew copies.

 

[Runningman]

Except that they don’t. To repeat, there isn’t one verse in the Bible that explicitly or directly states God is an absolute unity (one person; unitarian).

John 17:3 says that Father is the only true God. That's proof for Unitarianism. Denying this doesn't change this.

That is not what it says:

1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;
2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;
4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.

https://ccel.org/creeds/athanasian.creed.html

Of course that's what it says. This creed is unscriptural nonsense.

"That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity, neither blending their persons nor dividing their essence..."

"He is God from the essence of the Father, begotten before time; and he is human from the essence of his mother, born in time..."

"certainly not by the blending of his essence, but by the unity of his person..."

Creeds are summations of what the Bible teaches. And the doctrine of the Trinity best takes into account all that the Bible reveals about the nature of God.

The Athanasian Creed is not.

 

[Runningman]

"You shall not take the Lord's name in vain."

What about it?

The broader context is that Jesus is exalted above all immortal angels, let alone mortal men.

Hebrews 2
7You made him a little lower than the angels...

"Ask and you shall receive."

And?

No, God isn't a man, but he can surely manifest as a man in order to communicate with mankind. The difference is beyond your comprehension.

Can God manifest as a pizza? Can God do anything that God can do? What's your point?

No, it aims at translation, not theology. Again, the difference is beyond your comprehension.

No I understand the Bible just fine.

I would offer you that it is, YHWH is God's one and only personal name. Not alone did Jesus claim to be A god, He claimed to be THE God. That's what enraged his listeners when Jesus claimed that he is I AM, they took it as blasphemy.

No he didn't claim to be God. Jesus never said "I am God." That is what you are missing.

That he can't manifest himself in form of a man, a lowly carpenter from Nazerath, yet with the authority of God.

Who gave Jesus and his disciples their authority to do all of the exact same things?

 

[Free]

The LXX fragments say that God is one person, and don't follow Rabbinic Hebrew copies.

Nothing you posted showed that God is one person. Besides even if the LXX did, it would change what the original Hebrew states, which would be error.

 

[7thMoon]

Nothing you posted showed that God is one person. Besides even if the LXX did, it would change what the original Hebrew states, which would be error.

We don't have the original Hebrew. The NT also implies Aramaic was the semitic dialect used by Hebrews.

 

[Runningman]

If someone does not agree with you, then they think you're wrong.

They're certainly free to think that if they wish but no one has told me I am wrong nor would it make a difference if they did.

The reason no one has used those precise words is because it's against our rules.
If you noticed, we attempt to be very respectful and civil to each other on this Forum.

People are free to say anything to me. Been on forums long enough to know when people can't defend their religion against the Bible they get worked up.

Conflate Christianity with the Trinity?
RM, Christianity IS the Trinity.

It's not Christianity.

Are you worshipping Jesus?
Is He just a man?
Then you're an idol worshipper.

I don't worship Jesus as God. Jesus didn't command it and God didn't command it. Bowing to Jesus is for the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:10,11

Are you not worshipping Jesus?
Then who are you trusting to save you?

The gospel isn't "worship Jesus to be saved." I hope that is now what you're implying.

Corinthians 15:14-17
14and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain.
15Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised.
16For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised;
17and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.
18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.
19If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.

I tried to explain that to you all earlier, but despite numerous attempts it seems it isn't getting through. Let's begin with the fact that Jesus is created. He isn't God.

Revelation 3
14“And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God’s creation.

Who raised Jesus from the dead?
Why?

God raised Jesus from the dead.

 

[7thMoon]

Then you're an idol worshipper.

Idol worshipping is for people who have man-gods. What makes you think you understand the word?

Acts 17:29 "Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device." (KJV)

 

[Free]

We don't have the original Hebrew. The NT also implies Aramaic was the semitic dialect used by Hebrews.

None of it shows that God is one person.

 

[7thMoon]

None of it shows that God is one person.

There is nothing that says god is 3 persons either.

 

[Free]

There is nothing that says god is 3 persons either.

No, but there are hints of plurality and the door is left open for plurality within the nature of the one God.

 

[7thMoon]

No, but there are hints of plurality and the door is left open for plurality within the nature of the one God.

If you only knew how defective the word elohim is. Jesus uses the Aramaic form El. What gives?