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Unraveling Revelation: There Were Giants in the Earth in Those Days

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Angels, are SPIRITS, (Heb. 1: 13 & 14) They donot have sexual apparatus. God did not give them means of procreating and then say `don`t marry. (Matt. 22: 30)

The giants were just bullies as the Hebrew tells us. The `sons of God` were of the Seth line when men began to call on the name of the Lord. (Gen. 4: 26) Some of them went and married Cain`s descendants who were very wicked.

Greetings, Marilyn, and been a while since we talked. Hope you are well : )

Listen, I would take the same position as Hawkman and others here, though I apologize if you have been addressed rudely. That is not how we conduct ourselves around here, and if you feel you are being treated poorly feel free to file a report and we will see that it gets corrected. We would like to see you happy here.

That said, the theory that the sons of God referred to in Genesis 6 were the sons of Seth was first introduced by Sextus Julius Africanus in the early 200's AD, and then adopted and popularized much later by Augustine of Hippo around 400 AD. But it was never the doctrine of the early church. Nor was it ever the doctrine of ancient Judaism. No matter how strange it may seem to the modern reader, they were universal in their belief that the sons of God were fallen angels.

I say that because I always fall heavily on the side of early church tradition. I believe that what they handed down to us should be taken seriously as the accepted doctrines of the church, even if on occasion they may seem too incredible to believe at times.

Blessings in Christ, and I hope you are not discouraged from participating in the discussion of the word with us. Your presence is welcome here.
Hidden
 
Marriage is not prerequisite for procreation .
Notice in the verse where the angels are that don't marry , Jesus could have said angels but he qualified where the angels were at "in heaven " , why would he do that ?

Very good points, IMO.:CmaLft
 
Nephilim means as it has been traditionally taught to be angels who came down and procreated with women by marrying and having children with them, but this is a false teaching. Only God can incarnate His angels into human form for the purpose of His ministry, not for procreation.

Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

The way I read this verse is that there were giants in the earth in those days before the flood and also after the flood when the sons of God (Godly line of Seth named in Genesis 5) as they all had sons and daughters, but not all of these sons and daughters obeyed God and fell away from Him and let's not forget the ungodly line of Cain that some of these sons and daughters might have married into Cain's line came in unto the daughters of men and they bare children to them, as some had the hereditary autosomal dominant pituitary gene such as AIP that produces Nephilim/giants the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. (this gene had to start with Adam).

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance - Nephilim
Part of Speech: noun masculine
Transliteration: Nephilim
Phonetic Spelling : nef-eel
Definition: "giants", name of two people, one before the flood and one after the flood

By this definition these angels would have to have come down two different times to marry the daughters of men. Once before the flood and again after the flood, but we only find this one time in Genesis 6:1, 2.

There is no such thing as a half angel, half human hybrid called Giants. Nephilim is just a name given to giants that we read about in scripture and even those that are living today being over 6 feet and taller.

Rephaim - race of giants Genesis 14:5-7; Deuteronomy 3:11-13; 2 Samuel 21:16-20, Og the king of Bashan was the last of the Rephaim
Anakim - race of giants Numbers 13:33; Deuteronomy 2:10; 9:2 Anak son of Arba Joshua 15:13 descendent of Canaan, son of Ham
Emim - the proud deserters, terrors, race of giants Genesis 14:5-7; Genesis, 19:37; Deuteronomy 2:10, 11 descendants of Canaan, son of Ham
Zuzim/Zamzummim's the evil ones, roaming things Genesis 14:5-7, 19:38 Deuteronomy 2:20 descendants of Canaan, son of Ham

It's just like the name Lucifer/Satan/prince of darkness/Beelzebub/father of lies and many more names given to this fallen angel. Satan is nothing more than a fallen angel that goes to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it as he still has access to the throne room of God as he stands accusing the brethren as Jesus sits and makes intercession for us. Satan is the opposite of God's goodness as his evil hierarchy includes the third of the angels that have followed after him as he sends them throughout the earth for his destructive purpose in man, 1 Peter 5:8.

The term "sons of God" has multiple meanings in the Bible like humans who have a special relationship with God like the nation of Israel who are called God's first born son in Exodus 4:22. Solomon was called the son of God, 1Chronicles 28:6, as well as all of us that are in Christ are sons/daughters of God, Galatians 3:26.


Gen 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Angels are spirit form and have no genitals or sperm in order to get a woman pregnant. Angels have no gender (Matthew 22:30) and are innumerable (Hebrews 12:22). They are incarnate in human form at times (Genesis 18:2-8) for the purpose of ministry.

It's only a man's theory or interpretation of Genesis 6:1-4 as many hold this theory about angels getting women pregnant as being true, but yet no evidence in scripture other than this is found in the book of Enoch in which was written after the death of Enoch.
 
hawkman said:
Marriage is not prerequisite for procreation .
Notice in the verse where the angels are that don't marry , Jesus could have said angels but he qualified where the angels were at "in heaven " , why would he do that ?
IOW, those particular angels (i.e. those "in heaven") were obedient; they remained in their proper place i.e. they did not leave their first estate. We are never told that angels categorically cannot mate or cannot marry; we are only told that obedient/"first estate" angels do not mate or marry.

From the OP:
Unraveling Revelation: There Were Giants in the Earth in Those Days
While I don't countenance the man's heresies, Chuck Missler wrote one of the most definitive articles on the issue at hand. It's a must read if you want to get to the scriptural truth of the matter. The article is...

Mischievous Angels or Sethites?
 
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Only God can incarnate His angels into human form for the purpose of His ministry, not for procreation.
Where does it say that in scripture "only God can incarnate His angels into human form " ?
I would think God gives angels orders and they carry them out within parameters already laid out , they are messengers after all .
But what did the fallen angels do , that is another matter entirely .
Definition: "giants", name of two people, one before the flood and one after the flood

By this definition these angels would have to have come down two different times to marry the daughters of men. Once before the flood and again after the flood, but we only find this one time in Genesis 6:1, 2.
It could be the bloodline that was corrupted before the flood continued after the flood , Noah's daughter-inlaws could be where the corruption was . Corruption of flesh in Gen 6 is told to us .
There is no such thing as a half angel, half human hybrid called Giants.
Bible scripture that backs this up ?
Nephilim is just a name given to giants that we read about in scripture and even those that are living today being over 6 feet and taller.
Let us read Strong's . Let that word fall soak in .
Strong's Lexicon
Nephilim: Giants
Original Word: נְפִיל
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: nphiyl
Pronunciation: neh-fee-LEEM
Phonetic Spelling: (nef-eel')
Definition: Giants
Meaning: a feller, a bully, tyrant

Word Origin: Derived from the root נָפַל (naphal), meaning "to fall."

Corresponding Greek / Hebrew Entries: There is no direct Greek equivalent for Nephilim in the Septuagint or the New Testament. However, the concept of giants is sometimes related to the Greek word "γίγας" (gigas), meaning "giant."

Usage: The term "Nephilim" is used in the Hebrew Bible to describe a group of beings of great size and strength. The word is often translated as "giants" in English versions of the Bible. The Nephilim are mentioned in the context of the pre-flood world and are associated with the "sons of God" and the "daughters of men" narrative.

Cultural and Historical Background: The Nephilim are a mysterious group mentioned in the early chapters of Genesis. They are often associated with the antediluvian (pre-flood) world, a time described as being filled with violence and corruption. Various interpretations exist regarding their identity, ranging from fallen angels to mighty human warriors. In ancient Near Eastern cultures, stories of giants and demi-gods were common, and the Nephilim may reflect similar mythological themes.
The term "sons of God" has multiple meanings in the Bible like humans who have a special relationship with God like the nation of Israel who are called God's first born son in Exodus 4:22. Solomon was called the son of God, 1Chronicles 28:6, as well as all of us that are in Christ are sons/daughters of God, Galatians 3:26.
The phrase "sons of God " in the OLD Testament , three separate times in the book of Job "sons of God" are shown to the angels , once you leave the Hebrew and go to the New Testament the meaning changes .
Angels are spirit form and have no genitals or sperm in order to get a woman pregnant.
Angels can take on a form that we can not tell apart from human , we see that in the bible .
Show me where the bible talks about the angels genital's ?
Angels have no gender (Matthew 22:30) and are innumerable (Hebrews 12:22). They are incarnate in human form at times (Genesis 18:2-8) for the purpose of ministry.
Show me where it talks about the gender of angels in the bible .
It's only a man's theory or interpretation of Genesis 6:1-4 as many hold this theory about angels getting women pregnant as being true, but yet no evidence in scripture other than this is found in the book of Enoch in which was written after the death of Enoch.
We are but grasshoppers in their sight . I believe them .

Did you watch the video ?
 
There is no such thing as a half angel, half human hybrid called Giants. Nephilim is just a name given to giants that we read about in scripture and even those that are living today being over 6 feet and taller.
Dozens of tribes of giants are found in the Holy Bible:

Amalekites, Amorites, Anakim, Ashdodites, Ashkelonites (Eshkalonites), Avvim, Avites, Canaanites, Caphtorim, Ekronites, Emim (Emins), Gazites (Gazathites), Geshurites , Gibalites (Giblites), Gibeonites, Girgashites, Gittites, Hittites, Hivites, Horites (Horims), Jebusites, Kadmonites, Kenites, Kenizzites, Maacathites, Manassites, Nephilim, Perizzites, Philistines, Rephaim, Sidonians, Zamzummim, and the Zuzim.
  • Amalekites are mentioned 25 times
  • Amorites are mentioned 87 times
  • Anakim are mentioned 9 times
  • Ashdodites are mentioned 4 times
  • Ashkelonites (Eshkalonites) are mentioned 1 time
  • Avvim are mentioned 3 times
  • Canaanites are mentioned 21 times but not all Canaanites peoples were giants.
  • Caphtorim are mentioned 2 times
  • Ekronites are mentioned 2 times
  • Emim (aka Emins) are mentioned 3 times
  • Gazites (Gazathites) are mentioned 2 times
  • Geshurites are mentioned 6 times
  • Gibeonites are mentioned 8 times
  • Gibalites (Giblites) are mentioned 2 times
  • Girgashites are mentioned 7 times
  • Gittites are mentioned 10 times
  • Hittites are mentioned 48 times
  • Hivites are mentioned 25 times
  • Horites (Horims) are mentioned 7 times
  • Jebusites are mentioned 41 times
  • Kadmonites are mentioned 1 time
  • Kenites are mentioned 11 times
  • Kenizzites are mentioned 4 times
  • Maacathites are mentioned 8 times
  • Manassites are mentioned 4 times
  • Nephilim are mentioned 2 times
  • Perizzites are mentioned 23 times
  • Philistines are mentioned 290 times but many Philistines were not giants.
  • Rephaim are mentioned 18 times
  • Sidonians are mentioned 16 times
  • Zamzummim are mentioned 1 time
  • Zuzim are mentioned 1 time
That is a total of 688 mentions of tribes, people groups, or nations of (or containing) giants.

There are 19 giants that are named specifically in the Holy Bible:
  • Adoni-zedek (aka Adonizedek, Adonizedec), King of Jerusalem, is mentioned 2 times
  • Agag, King of the Amalakites, is mentioned 8 times
  • Ahiman (anakim) is mentioned 4 times
  • Amalek is mentioned 24 times
  • Arba is mentioned 3 times
  • Gog is mentioned 11 times
  • Magog is mentioned 5 times
  • Goliath is mentioned 6 times (~10 feet tall, 1 Sam. 17:4-7)
  • Hoham, King of Hebron, is mentioned 1 time
  • Horam, King of Gezer, is mentioned 1 time
  • Jabin, King of Hazor, is mentioned 7 times
  • Jobab, King of Madon, is mentioned 9 times
  • Lahmi is mentioned 1 time
  • Nimrod is mentioned 4 times
  • Og of Bashan is mentioned 22 times (~13 feet tall, Deu. 3:11)
  • Sheshai (anakim) is mentioned 3 times
  • Sihon, King of the Amorites, is mentioned 39 times
  • Sippai is mentioned 1 time
  • Talmai (anakim) is mentioned 6 times
That is a total of 157 mentions of specific giants.

688 + 157 = 845 total references to individual giants, tribes, and people groups that included or were associated with giants in the Holy Bible.

It could be the bloodline that was corrupted before the flood continued after the flood , Noah's daughter-inlaws could be where the corruption was . Corruption of flesh in Gen 6 is told to us .
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that... (Gen. 6:4). One way or another, "they're baaaack!"

But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (Mat. 24:37). IOW, we had giants then; we shall have giants again. Are you ready?

Angels can take on a form that we can not tell apart from human , we see that in the bible .
...which also would explain why we have all the genetic splicing and dicing today - and they would tell us they've just cloned a sheep! They're mocking us. And why robots are most often assembled in the form of a human. Are you ready for what's coming?
 
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Nephilim means as it has been traditionally taught to be angels who came down and procreated with women by marrying and having children with them, but this is a false teaching. Only God can incarnate His angels into human form for the purpose of His ministry, not for procreation.

Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

The way I read this verse is that there were giants in the earth in those days before the flood and also after the flood when the sons of God (Godly line of Seth named in Genesis 5) as they all had sons and daughters, but not all of these sons and daughters obeyed God and fell away from Him and let's not forget the ungodly line of Cain that some of these sons and daughters might have married into Cain's line came in unto the daughters of men and they bare children to them, as some had the hereditary autosomal dominant pituitary gene such as AIP that produces Nephilim/giants the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. (this gene had to start with Adam).

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance - Nephilim
Part of Speech: noun masculine
Transliteration: Nephilim
Phonetic Spelling : nef-eel
Definition: "giants", name of two people, one before the flood and one after the flood

By this definition these angels would have to have come down two different times to marry the daughters of men. Once before the flood and again after the flood, but we only find this one time in Genesis 6:1, 2.

There is no such thing as a half angel, half human hybrid called Giants. Nephilim is just a name given to giants that we read about in scripture and even those that are living today being over 6 feet and taller.

Rephaim - race of giants Genesis 14:5-7; Deuteronomy 3:11-13; 2 Samuel 21:16-20, Og the king of Bashan was the last of the Rephaim
Anakim - race of giants Numbers 13:33; Deuteronomy 2:10; 9:2 Anak son of Arba Joshua 15:13 descendent of Canaan, son of Ham
Emim - the proud deserters, terrors, race of giants Genesis 14:5-7; Genesis, 19:37; Deuteronomy 2:10, 11 descendants of Canaan, son of Ham
Zuzim/Zamzummim's the evil ones, roaming things Genesis 14:5-7, 19:38 Deuteronomy 2:20 descendants of Canaan, son of Ham

It's just like the name Lucifer/Satan/prince of darkness/Beelzebub/father of lies and many more names given to this fallen angel. Satan is nothing more than a fallen angel that goes to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it as he still has access to the throne room of God as he stands accusing the brethren as Jesus sits and makes intercession for us. Satan is the opposite of God's goodness as his evil hierarchy includes the third of the angels that have followed after him as he sends them throughout the earth for his destructive purpose in man, 1 Peter 5:8.

The term "sons of God" has multiple meanings in the Bible like humans who have a special relationship with God like the nation of Israel who are called God's first born son in Exodus 4:22. Solomon was called the son of God, 1Chronicles 28:6, as well as all of us that are in Christ are sons/daughters of God, Galatians 3:26.


Gen 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Angels are spirit form and have no genitals or sperm in order to get a woman pregnant. Angels have no gender (Matthew 22:30) and are innumerable (Hebrews 12:22). They are incarnate in human form at times (Genesis 18:2-8) for the purpose of ministry.

It's only a man's theory or interpretation of Genesis 6:1-4 as many hold this theory about angels getting women pregnant as being true, but yet no evidence in scripture other than this is found in the book of Enoch in which was written after the death of Enoch.
Having identified the "sons of God" as "godly line of Seth" is a false teaching. There's every biblical evidence against it and nothing for it:

1. "Call on the name of the Lord" in Gen. 4:26 is invalid reasoning. Calling the name of the Lord doesn't make the caller holy or righteous, God values godly work, not empty words.

Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. (Matt. 7:21)

2. "Sons of God" in Rom. 8:14 is invalid reasoning. In the context of Rom. 8:12-17, children of God are led by the Holy Spirit and ADOPTED through Christ. That context doesn't exist in the pre-flood world of Gen.6. NT definition of "children of God" is NOT applicable to OT context.

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

3. "Sons of God" are evil heavenly beings in Satan's company, they're under God's judgement. There's everything UNgodly and nothing godly in them.

I said, “You are gods, And all of you are children of the Most High. But you shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. (Ps. 82:6-7)
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. (Job. 1:6)

4. In the context of Gen. 6, all mankind was full of wickedness, so much so that it had grieved God to made the decision of drowning them all in a global flood. There's no presumed distinction between Seth's descendants and Cain's, everyone was evil to the core except Noah and his family.

Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. (Gen. 6:5)

5. The conclusion of "angels don't procreate" based on Matt. 22:30 is invalid reasoning. In Matt. 22:30 it specifically says angels of God in HEAVEN, that's their "proper domain", that puts a hard limit on that conclusion. When that limit is no longer in place, neither does this conclusion. As a matter of fact, the context of Gen. 6 was set not in heaven, but on EARTH, where angels manifest in human form with human physiological functions including procreation and eating, as shown in Gen. 19:5 and 18:8. Therefore, "angels don't procreate" is no longer established when angels leave their "proper domain" and go down to earth. Angels in heaven don't marry or give in marriage, but they can do so as humans on earth.

And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; (Jude 1:6)
So he (Abraham) took butter and milk and the calf which he had prepared, and set it before them (Lord God and the two angels); and he stood by them under the tree as they ate. (Gen. 18:8)
Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom ... (Gen. 19:1)
“Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may know them carnally.”(Gen. 19:5)
For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark ... (Matt. 24:39)

This distinction between heavenly form and earthly form is also taught by Paul. When mortal human beings are resurrected, they are transformed from terrestrial beings to celestial beings; therefore, when angels reveal themselves to men on earth, they must manifest as terrestrial beings, not celestial beings because celestial bodies are incompatible with earthly environment.

There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. (1 Cor. 15:40)

6. "Sons of God" are able to present themselves before God as they did in Job 1:6, yet no human being can see God and live. That indicates heavenly nature of the "Sons of God" and precludes any earthly nature.

But He said, “You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live.” (Ex. 33:20)
 
By this definition these angels would have to have come down two different times to marry the daughters of men. Once before the flood and again after the flood, but we only find this one time in Genesis 6:1, 2.
I beg to differ:

Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.
 
By this definition these angels would have to have come down two different times to marry the daughters of men. Once before the flood and again after the flood, but we only find this one time in Genesis 6:1, 2.
I beg to differ:
This has been a hot topic lately in some circles, about whether there was a "second incursion" of these angels. Several different theories - marine devils that survived; corrupt DNA that entered the ark; etc.

One thing is certain: scripture tells us, "...and also after that..." (Gen. 6:4), so we know they're here (still, or again).

We are but grasshoppers in their sight . I believe them .
Kinda gives a diff meaning to "You vill eat zee bugs."
 
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...which reminds me that the giants were cannibalistic:

And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature. (Num. 13:32).

...and that they mated with animals, as "all flesh was corrupted" (Gen. .6:12).

There's an example of beings on earth that had human/animal features:

Benaiah the son of Jehoiada, the son of a valiant man of Kabzeel, who had done many acts; he slew two lionlike men of Moab: also he went down and slew a lion in a pit in a snowy day. (1 Chr 11:22).

...which is where we get those stories/myths/legends of half-man, half-animal creatures throughout history, the mighty men, men of renown.

In the Book of Isaiah, the presence of satyrs, a human/goat "hybrid," is briefly mentioned:

But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there. (Isa. 13:21).
 
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...which reminds me that the giants were cannibalistic:

And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature. (Num. 13:32).
Even in the Americas there are tales of the cannibalistic giants .
...which is where we get those stories/myths/legends of half-man, half-animal creatures throughout history, the mighty men, men of renown.
Yes indeed . Even in the KJV . Lion like Men 🦁 .

2 Samuel 23:20 Context​

17And he said, Be it far from me, O LORD, that I should do this: is not this the blood of the men that went in jeopardy of their lives? therefore he would not drink it. These things did these three mighty men. 18And Abishai, the brother of Joab, the son of Zeruiah, was chief among three. And he lifted up his spear against three hundred, and slew them, and had the name among three. 19Was he not most honourable of three? therefore he was their captain: howbeit he attained not unto the first three. 20And Benaiah the son of Jehoiada, the son of a valiant man, of Kabzeel, who had done many acts, he slew two lionlike men of Moab: he went down also and slew a lion in the midst of a pit in time of snow: 21And he slew an Egyptian, a goodly man: and the Egyptian had a spear in his hand; but he went down to him with a staff, and plucked the spear out of the Egyptian's hand, and slew him with his own spear. 22These things did Benaiah the son of Jehoiada, and had the name among three mighty men. 23He was more honourable than the thirty, but he attained not to the first three. And David set him over his guard.
 
Greetings, Marilyn, and been a while since we talked. Hope you are well : )

Listen, I would take the same position as Hawkman and others here, though I apologize if you have been addressed rudely. That is not how we conduct ourselves around here, and if you feel you are being treated poorly feel free to file a report and we will see that it gets corrected. We would like to see you happy here.

That said, the theory that the sons of God referred to in Genesis 6 were the sons of Seth was first introduced by Sextus Julius Africanus in the early 200's AD, and then adopted and popularized much later by Augustine of Hippo around 400 AD But it was never the doctrine of the early church. Nor was it ever the doctrine of ancient Judaism. No matter how strange it may seem to the modern reader, they were universal in their belief that the sons of God were fallen angels.

I say that because I always fall heavily on the side of early church tradition. I believe that what they handed down to us should be taken seriously as the accepted doctrines of the church, even if on occasion they may seem too incredible to believe at times.

Blessings in Christ, and I hope you are not discouraged from participating in the discussion of the word with us. Your presence is welcome here.
Hidden
Hi Hidden,

Thank you and will remember to report if I think necessary. Good to know that is not common here. And yes it has been a while but was sent an e-mail so was reminded.

Now about the topic. You seemed to say that the early church didn`t say that those giants were of the sons of Seth. So, where does it say in God`s word according to the early believers that the `sons of God` in Gen. were fallen angels?

Now, as to tradition. May I suggest you (and us) be very careful. Paul warned -

`For know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also, from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. ` (Acts 20: 29 & 30)
 
Nephilim means as it has been traditionally taught to be angels who came down and procreated with women by marrying and having children with them, but this is a false teaching. Only God can incarnate His angels into human form for the purpose of His ministry, not for procreation.

Genesis 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

The way I read this verse is that there were giants in the earth in those days before the flood and also after the flood when the sons of God (Godly line of Seth named in Genesis 5) as they all had sons and daughters, but not all of these sons and daughters obeyed God and fell away from Him and let's not forget the ungodly line of Cain that some of these sons and daughters might have married into Cain's line came in unto the daughters of men and they bare children to them, as some had the hereditary autosomal dominant pituitary gene such as AIP that produces Nephilim/giants the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. (this gene had to start with Adam).

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance - Nephilim
Part of Speech: noun masculine
Transliteration: Nephilim
Phonetic Spelling : nef-eel
Definition: "giants", name of two people, one before the flood and one after the flood

By this definition these angels would have to have come down two different times to marry the daughters of men. Once before the flood and again after the flood, but we only find this one time in Genesis 6:1, 2.

There is no such thing as a half angel, half human hybrid called Giants. Nephilim is just a name given to giants that we read about in scripture and even those that are living today being over 6 feet and taller.

Rephaim - race of giants Genesis 14:5-7; Deuteronomy 3:11-13; 2 Samuel 21:16-20, Og the king of Bashan was the last of the Rephaim
Anakim - race of giants Numbers 13:33; Deuteronomy 2:10; 9:2 Anak son of Arba Joshua 15:13 descendent of Canaan, son of Ham
Emim - the proud deserters, terrors, race of giants Genesis 14:5-7; Genesis, 19:37; Deuteronomy 2:10, 11 descendants of Canaan, son of Ham
Zuzim/Zamzummim's the evil ones, roaming things Genesis 14:5-7, 19:38 Deuteronomy 2:20 descendants of Canaan, son of Ham

It's just like the name Lucifer/Satan/prince of darkness/Beelzebub/father of lies and many more names given to this fallen angel. Satan is nothing more than a fallen angel that goes to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it as he still has access to the throne room of God as he stands accusing the brethren as Jesus sits and makes intercession for us. Satan is the opposite of God's goodness as his evil hierarchy includes the third of the angels that have followed after him as he sends them throughout the earth for his destructive purpose in man, 1 Peter 5:8.

The term "sons of God" has multiple meanings in the Bible like humans who have a special relationship with God like the nation of Israel who are called God's first born son in Exodus 4:22. Solomon was called the son of God, 1Chronicles 28:6, as well as all of us that are in Christ are sons/daughters of God, Galatians 3:26.


Gen 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
Gen 6:2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Angels are spirit form and have no genitals or sperm in order to get a woman pregnant. Angels have no gender (Matthew 22:30) and are innumerable (Hebrews 12:22). They are incarnate in human form at times (Genesis 18:2-8) for the purpose of ministry.

It's only a man's theory or interpretation of Genesis 6:1-4 as many hold this theory about angels getting women pregnant as being true, but yet no evidence in scripture other than this is found in the book of Enoch in which was written after the death of Enoch.
So well said for_his_glory.
 
Now, as to tradition. May I suggest you (and us) be very careful. Paul warned -

`For know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also, from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. ` (Acts 20: 29 & 30)

I understand how you could apply this, but I think this warning was specifically about the Gnostics. But about the following:
So, where does it say in God`s word according to the early believers that the `sons of God` in Gen. were fallen angels?

Well some of it has already been posted, and again it goes back to how the early church interpreted things. See, if you throw that out, it is then simply a matter of reinterpreting every verse that had to do with a subject in a new light, and suddenly you can have "God's word" teaching something the church shows no evidence of believing until the 3rd century, or the 5th, or the 18th.

As to the word itself, let me ask you something respectfully first: Do you believe that when Jude quoted the Book of 1 Enoch he believed it to be authoritative?

Blessings,
- H
 
Where does it say that in scripture "only God can incarnate His angels into human form " ?
I would think God gives angels orders and they carry them out within parameters already laid out , they are messengers after all .
But what did the fallen angels do , that is another matter entirely .

It could be the bloodline that was corrupted before the flood continued after the flood , Noah's daughter-inlaws could be where the corruption was . Corruption of flesh in Gen 6 is told to us .

Bible scripture that backs this up ?

Let us read Strong's . Let that word fall soak in .
Strong's Lexicon
Nephilim: Giants
Original Word: נְפִיל
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: nphiyl
Pronunciation: neh-fee-LEEM
Phonetic Spelling: (nef-eel')
Definition: Giants
Meaning: a feller, a bully, tyrant

Word Origin: Derived from the root נָפַל (naphal), meaning "to fall."

Corresponding Greek / Hebrew Entries: There is no direct Greek equivalent for Nephilim in the Septuagint or the New Testament. However, the concept of giants is sometimes related to the Greek word "γίγας" (gigas), meaning "giant."

Usage: The term "Nephilim" is used in the Hebrew Bible to describe a group of beings of great size and strength. The word is often translated as "giants" in English versions of the Bible. The Nephilim are mentioned in the context of the pre-flood world and are associated with the "sons of God" and the "daughters of men" narrative.

Cultural and Historical Background: The Nephilim are a mysterious group mentioned in the early chapters of Genesis. They are often associated with the antediluvian (pre-flood) world, a time described as being filled with violence and corruption. Various interpretations exist regarding their identity, ranging from fallen angels to mighty human warriors. In ancient Near Eastern cultures, stories of giants and demi-gods were common, and the Nephilim may reflect similar mythological themes.

The phrase "sons of God " in the OLD Testament , three separate times in the book of Job "sons of God" are shown to the angels , once you leave the Hebrew and go to the New Testament the meaning changes .

Angels can take on a form that we can not tell apart from human , we see that in the bible .
Show me where the bible talks about the angels genital's ?

Show me where it talks about the gender of angels in the bible .

We are but grasshoppers in their sight . I believe them .

Did you watch the video ?
Hi hawkman,

I am particularly addressing your point about the `daughters-in-laws` of Noah having corrupted bloodlines. That would mean ALL the human race after that would also. Mmmm therefore NOT human and therefore Christ dying in vain.
 
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Now about the topic. You seemed to say that the early church didn`t say that those giants were of the sons of Seth. So, where does it say in God`s word according to the early believers that the `sons of God` in Gen. were fallen angels?
The bible itself:

So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. (Rev. 12:9)
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?”So Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.” (Job 1:6-8)
 
Hi hawkman,

I am particularly addressing your point about the `daughters-in-law` of Noah having corrupted bloodlines. That would mean ALL the human race after that would also. Mmmm therefore NOT human and therefore Christ dying in vain.
So I did use an "s" on the daughters-in-law but It would only take one DIL . Think about Ham and his wife .
 
I understand how you could apply this, but I think this warning was specifically about the Gnostics. But about the following:


Well some of it has already been posted, and again it goes back to how the early church interpreted things. See, if you throw that out, it is then simply a matter of reinterpreting every verse that had to do with a subject in a new light, and suddenly you can have "God's word" teaching something the church shows no evidence of believing until the 3rd century, or the 5th, or the 18th.

As to the word itself, let me ask you something respectfully first: Do you believe that when Jude quoted the Book of 1 Enoch believed it to be authoritative?

Blessings,
- H
Hi H,

Actually, in Paul`s letter to the disciples at Colosse, he addressed quite a few errors and heresies. Now, if we take `tradition` above what is written then we end up in great error for even they did not all agree.

We need to read God`s word ourselves with teachers the Lord has given and to do the work for ourselves of what is truth and not rely on early Church so called fathers, (Paul was a father...) to interpret for us. Great errors came in and continued till the great heresies of all of indulgences - paying for another out of (so called) purgatory.

It is only over the past few centuries that the basic truths of God`s word has come across the Body of Christ - Salvation, Baptism of believing adults, holiness living, infilling of the Holy Spirit, the gifts of the Holy Spirit, the ministry gifts of Christ the Head, and the eternal purposes of God.

And you can track each of those great truths over the past few centuries and even past few decades. Thus we see that the early Church so-called fathers did not do a good job of passing on truths but interpreted God`s word not always correctly.

As to Jude quoting the book of Enoch, I would say rather he has Deuteronomy 33: 3 as the primary source.
 
The bible itself:

So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. (Rev. 12:9)
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. And the Lord said to Satan, “From where do you come?”So Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking back and forth on it.” (Job 1:6-8)
The `sons of God` there are angels of God but not fallen angels of Satan.

Satan is never called a `son of God,` but as you wrote the 4 names describing his tactics to deceive, delude, devour and destroy.
 
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