Unveiled Secrets The Rapture

[for_his_glory]

Gee, I find this interesting that you reject any others writings on the Bible. You are your self made teacher of the Bible. Yet you want to refer me to your book on (Revelation). This seems to me to be a common characteristic with those who reject past Christians advancements in the knowledge of the Bible. That characteristic being they trust the symbolic, allegorical, and spiritual method of interpretation. Why? Who can question it? It's all up to you the interpreter. But, be sure and read my book.

Of course you're not. They have everything to do with the OP as I explained the problem is our method of interpretation. And, your refusal to answer the questions, proves it.

Quantrill

Where did I ever say I reject any other writings as the only ones I reject are those teachings that do not line up with scripture. No, I am not a self made teacher but called of God and anointed by the Holy Spirit to teach the word of God, not the word of man. Am I infallible, no, only God is. I suggested you reading those two chapters in my book to see how I see the symbolic and the literal as it was to hard to explain in a reply.

It makes no difference to me if people believe me or not, but to at least read the scriptures for that which has already been written. Like I said, I use to believe in a pretrib Rapture for many years, but the scriptures just do not support this. The reason I teach on this is because I want people to be prepared for that which must come first that Jesus already told us about before He returns. Those who are taught that we are out of here before the seven trumpets of God's great wrath and the coming of the son of perdition who will cause all to takes it's mark or be beheaded if they do not renounce Christ are believing the lies of Satan as we can clearly read in Rev 20:4


Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

[for_his_glory]

And, your refusal to answer the questions, proves it.

Where did I refuse to answer any questions?

 

[Quantrill]

Where did I ever say I reject any other writings as the only ones I reject are those teachings that do not line up with scripture. No, I am not a self made teacher but called of God and anointed by the Holy Spirit to teach the word of God, not the word of man. Am I infallible, no, only God is. I suggested you reading those two chapters in my book to see how I see the symbolic and the literal as it was to hard to explain in a reply.

It makes no difference to me if people believe me or not, but to at least read the scriptures for that which has already been written. Like I said, I use to believe in a pretrib Rapture for many years, but the scriptures just do not support this. The reason I teach on this is because I want people to be prepared for that which must come first that Jesus already told us about before He returns. Those who are taught that we are out of here before the seven trumpets of God's great wrath and the coming of the son of perdition who will cause all to takes it's mark or be beheaded if they do not renounce Christ are believing the lies of Satan as we can clearly read in Rev 20:4


Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

And I clearly believe (Rev. 20:4). Those are the believers on earth during the Tribulation . Not the Church as it is already gone. Will these martyrs live and reign with Christ a thousand years? Yes?

Or, is the martyred saints here to be taken literally but the thousand year reign is not?

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Where did I refuse to answer any questions?

See my post #(115). Your post #(118).

Concerning your rejection of Christian writers and commentators in the past, I read your statements many times, though I can't recall the exact posts. You were clear that you don't use commentaries. Just you and the Bible.

If you now say you do use commentaries I would like a list of those you use, other than yours. No concordances or language helps. Commentaries. Most especially on (Daniel), (Matthew), and (Revelation). Thanks.

Quantrill

 

[for_his_glory]

And I clearly believe (Rev. 20:4). Those are the believers on earth during the Tribulation . Not the Church as it is already gone. Will these martyrs live and reign with Christ a thousand years? Yes?

Or, is the martyred saints here to be taken literally but the thousand year reign is not?

Quantrill

What separates those believers that are still here on earth during the tribulation from the Church you say is already gone? Please use scripture.

 

[Quantrill]

What separates those believers that are still here on earth during the tribulation from the Church you say is already gone? Please use scripture.

The Rapture separates them Why do you say use Scripture? I can use Scripture to prove the 7 year Tribulation, Rapture, and Millennium, and how the Rapture separates the Church from the 7 year Tribulation. Won't matter. You will symbolically explain them away.

Now, I answered your question. Please go back to my post #(123) and answer my two.

And could you give me the commentaries you use for (Daniel), (Matthew), and (Revelation)?

Quantrill

 

[for_his_glory]

See my post #(115). Your post #(118).

Concerning your rejection of Christian writers and commentators in the past, I read your statements many times, though I can't recall the exact posts. You were clear that you don't use commentaries. Just you and the Bible.

If you now say you do use commentaries I would like a list of those you use, other than yours. No concordances or language helps. Commentaries. Most especially on (Daniel), (Matthew), and (Revelation). Thanks.

Quantrill

I only asked you to read those two chapters in my book as I explain all the symbolism there during the timing of the first six trumpets and would be to lengthy to post it all here.

I will answer your questions you asked in #115 as all three are literal.

Genesis 15:13 is literal of God showing Abraham of the captivity of the Jews that would last 400 years in Egypt.

Jeremiah 25 speaks literally about the seventy years of captivity as Nebuchadnezzar comes against Israel destroying it.

Daniel goes on to explain about the literal 490 years God gave Israel to repent from all their evil ways before the time of Messiah come. This is why there is a four hundred year span between Malachi and Matthew, but that needs to be another thread.

I do not use commentaries any more that try to make scripture line up with their beliefs of these money making bandwagon theories that started in Port Glasgow, Scotland in the early 1800's. No one that I have ever heard of taught a pretrib message before that time.

All I need is what has already been written from the beginning of the OT to the ending of the NT plus the history of those times in order to understand the various Empires that have always come against God making millions of martyr's who died by their evil hands who believe in God and also His Son Christ Jesus that is even ongoing today until the last day when Christ returns. We will see history repeat itself as it always has during the timing of the son of perdition who will force all to renounce Christ in order to take the mark of this beast or die a martyr's death.

It's all in the Bible, but it takes one like I did to take their mind off of what they have been taught about a pretrib Rapture as it is not found anyway in scripture. When Christ said "the last day" I am going to believe Him.

The Coming of the Son of Man
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[for_his_glory]

The Rapture separates them Why do you say use Scripture? I can use Scripture to prove the 7 year Tribulation, Rapture, and Millennium, and how the Rapture separates the Church from the 7 year Tribulation. Won't matter. You will symbolically explain them away.

Now, I answered your question. Please go back to my post #(123) and answer my two.

And could you give me the commentaries you use for (Daniel), (Matthew), and (Revelation)?

Quantrill

Are not all who believe in Christ make up the body of Christ own with He being the head of the body? I asked you to show me the scripture that supports this as I have never read where there are two different groups of Christians as I thought we are all one in the Lord.

Please give me the scriptures that literally say a seven year tribulation, and the Rapture of only a certain group of Christians. There is nothing symbolic of that.

As far as the millennium I do see that as being a figurative number, not a literal number as in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2 Peter 3:8.

 

[Quantrill]

I only asked you to read those two chapters in my book as I explain all the symbolism there during the timing of the first six trumpets and would be to lengthy to post it all here.

I will answer your questions you asked in #115 as all three are literal.

Genesis 15:13 is literal of God showing Abraham of the captivity of the Jews that would last 400 years in Egypt.

Jeremiah 25 speaks literally about the seventy years of captivity as Nebuchadnezzar comes against Israel destroying it.

Daniel goes on to explain about the literal 490 years God gave Israel to repent from all their evil ways before the time of Messiah come. This is why there is a four hundred year span between Malachi and Matthew, but that needs to be another thread.

I do not use commentaries any more that try to make scripture line up with their beliefs of these money making bandwagon theories that started in Port Glasgow, Scotland in the early 1800's. No one that I have ever heard of taught a pretrib message before that time.

All I need is what has already been written from the beginning of the OT to the ending of the NT plus the history of those times in order to understand the various Empires that have always come against God making millions of martyr's who died by their evil hands who believe in God and also His Son Christ Jesus that is even ongoing today until the last day when Christ returns. We will see history repeat itself as it always has during the timing of the son of perdition who will force all to renounce Christ in order to take the mark of this beast or die a martyr's death.

It's all in the Bible, but it takes one like I did to take their mind off of what they have been taught about a pretrib Rapture as it is not found anyway in scripture. When Christ said "the last day" I am going to believe Him.

The Coming of the Son of Man
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Are not all who believe in Christ make up the body of Christ own with He being the head of the body? I asked you to show me the scripture that supports this as I have never read where there are two different groups of Christians as I thought we are all one in the Lord.

Please give me the scriptures that literally say a seven year tribulation, and the Rapture of only a certain group of Christians. There is nothing symbolic of that.

As far as the millennium I do see that as being a figurative number, not a literal number as in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2 Peter 3:8.

You're avoiding my questions in post #(123). Please answer.

Also, what are the commentaries you use for (Daniel), (Matthew), and (Revelation?

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Are not all who believe in Christ make up the body of Christ own with He being the head of the body? I asked you to show me the scripture that supports this as I have never read where there are two different groups of Christians as I thought we are all one in the Lord.

Please give me the scriptures that literally say a seven year tribulation, and the Rapture of only a certain group of Christians. There is nothing symbolic of that.

As far as the millennium I do see that as being a figurative number, not a literal number as in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2 Peter 3:8.

You said the Church started at Pentecost. Correct? That means the Church didn't exist before that. Correct? So all the believers in Israel and prior to Israel, are not part of the Church. Correct?

Yes, I know you see the millennium as symbolic. Why? Answer my questions in post #(123). Don't deceive yourself that you answered them. You haven't. (Deut. 7:9) doesn't make (Rev. 20:1-6) symbolic or figurative. (1 Chron. 16:15) proves nothing about (Rev. 20:1-6) being symbolic or figurative. (Ps. 50:10) proves nothing about (Rev. 20:1-6) being symbolic or figurative. (Ps. 90:4) says nothing about (Rev. 20:1-6) being symbolic or figurative. (Ps. 105:8) says nothing, and proves nothing about (Rev. 20:1-60 being interpreted symbolically or figuratively. (Ecc. 6:6) and (7:28) proves nothing. (Dan. 5:1-2) proves nothing of what you say. (2 Peter 3:8) does not disprove the literalness of (Rev. 20:1-6).

I never said 'only a certain group of Christians'. You're not paying attention.

You have exact Scripture defining the Millennium. 1000 years. (Rev. 20:1-6) You label them as symbolic. Yet you demand exact Scripture for the 7 year Tribulation. As though it would make a difference.

Please answer my questions in post #(123). And don't tell me you have, as you haven't.

Quantrill

 

[for_his_glory]

You're avoiding my questions in post #(123). Please answer.

Here is my answer in the full context.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

It's not until the seventh trumpet is sounded that the kingdoms (nations) of this world will become the kingdoms (nations) of God and Christ as He will reign now forever over the nations. Jesus has never literally sat on the throne of David in Jerusalem, but has always been at the right hand of God until all His enemies have become His footstool, Psalms 110:1-4; Isaiah 66:1; 1 Corinthians 15:24-28; Ephesians 1:22; Hebrews 2:8; 10:12, 13. This happens when Christ returns as King of kings and Lord of lords subduing His enemies and destroying the beast and false prophet and binding Satan for a time of prophetic 1000 years, Rev 19-20.

Rev 20:1-10 It's during the millennium reign of Christ here on earth that all things are subject to Christ as He destroys the enemy and cast Satan into the lake of fire.

2 Peter 3:8 is not speaking about the 1000 year reign of Christ as the context is about God's long suffering and patience from generation to generation as God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. There is emphases on the word "should" like that of should have, would have, could have, but many will be to late as Jesus will come on them as a thief in the night as at that time the door of Salvation will be closed forever as Christ destroys His enemies.

Rev 20:1-4 never mentions Christ literally reigning here on earth for a 1000 years. It says John only saw the future souls of those who were beheaded for not taking the mark of the beast, (not every soul that has ever died), live and reigned with Christ, but never mentions how long Christ's reign at that time is or where He is reigning from.

Jesus will never literally sit on the throne of David as this present earth and heaven will pass away then the New Jerusalem will be ushered down from heaven, Rev 21:1-3. Rev 20 shows nothing of Christ establishing a literal kingdom here on this present earth as Rev 11:15 only says at that time of the seventh trumpet the kingdoms (nations) of this world will become the kingdoms (nations) of our Lord and of His Christ. The meaning, then will all the enemies become the footstool of Christ as He makes all things subject unto Him.

Isaiah 13; Joel 3:9-17; Zechariah 14; Rev 19 speaks about the great battle against the enemies of God. When Christ returns with His army, being the host/angels from heaven who are the righteousness of God in heaven, He will then rule the nations with a rod of iron (power and great authority) destroying the enemy being the beast and false prophet casting them into the lake of fire then destroys all who have wondered after the beast and false prophet and have taken its mark. Then Satan will be bound for a time as Christ sends His angels out to the four corners of the earth as we who are of Christ own are then gathered up to Christ as we meet Him in the air and ever be with the Lord, 1 Corinthians 15:51-55; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

The beast and false prophet and all the ungodly political leaders from every nation that follows after them will be destroyed by Christ who does all of this from the air, Rev 19:11-21. When Satan is loosed he will gather all those who oppose Christ to compass the camp of the saints that are gathered in the air being the breadth of the earth in measurement as we are not on this present earth after being caught up to Jesus in the air, but they are consumed by fire (whether it is literal fire or just symbolic of God's wrath against them yet they are destroyed) that God sends down to destroy them and Satan is cast into the lake of fire.

Between the binding of Satan and being loosed scripture says 1000 years, but many parts of Revelation are symbolic in what John was shown in His visions as I see 1000 years only being a figurative numbering as I can't see God waiting a literal 1000 years before casting Satan into the lake of fire and then comes His final judgment and the new Jerusalem being ushered down from heaven after this present eart and heaven are restored back to what God created in the beginning.

 

[for_his_glory]

Yet you demand exact Scripture for the 7 year Tribulation. As though it would make a difference.

How do you know whether it would make a difference or not.

Please show me from Rev 8:6-13 (first four trumpets); 9:1-21(fifth and sixth trumpet); 11:15-19 (seventh trumpet) where it mentions a seven year period? I think it is only fair for you to answer my question as I feel I have answered all of yours.

 

[Quantrill]

Here is my answer in the full context.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

It's not until the seventh trumpet is sounded that the kingdoms (nations) of this world will become the kingdoms (nations) of God and Christ as He will reign now forever over the nations. Jesus has never literally sat on the throne of David in Jerusalem, but has always been at the right hand of God until all His enemies have become His footstool, Psalms 110:1-4; Isaiah 66:1; 1 Corinthians 15:24-28; Ephesians 1:22; Hebrews 2:8; 10:12, 13. This happens when Christ returns as King of kings and Lord of lords subduing His enemies and destroying the beast and false prophet and binding Satan for a time of prophetic 1000 years, Rev 19-20.

Rev 20:1-10 It's during the millennium reign of Christ here on earth that all things are subject to Christ as He destroys the enemy and cast Satan into the lake of fire.

2 Peter 3:8 is not speaking about the 1000 year reign of Christ as the context is about God's long suffering and patience from generation to generation as God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. There is emphases on the word "should" like that of should have, would have, could have, but many will be to late as Jesus will come on them as a thief in the night as at that time the door of Salvation will be closed forever as Christ destroys His enemies.

Rev 20:1-4 never mentions Christ literally reigning here on earth for a 1000 years. It says John only saw the future souls of those who were beheaded for not taking the mark of the beast, (not every soul that has ever died), live and reigned with Christ, but never mentions how long Christ's reign at that time is or where He is reigning from.

Jesus will never literally sit on the throne of David as this present earth and heaven will pass away then the New Jerusalem will be ushered down from heaven, Rev 21:1-3. Rev 20 shows nothing of Christ establishing a literal kingdom here on this present earth as Rev 11:15 only says at that time of the seventh trumpet the kingdoms (nations) of this world will become the kingdoms (nations) of our Lord and of His Christ. The meaning, then will all the enemies become the footstool of Christ as He makes all things subject unto Him.

Isaiah 13; Joel 3:9-17; Zechariah 14; Rev 19 speaks about the great battle against the enemies of God. When Christ returns with His army, being the host/angels from heaven who are the righteousness of God in heaven, He will then rule the nations with a rod of iron (power and great authority) destroying the enemy being the beast and false prophet casting them into the lake of fire then destroys all who have wondered after the beast and false prophet and have taken its mark. Then Satan will be bound for a time as Christ sends His angels out to the four corners of the earth as we who are of Christ own are then gathered up to Christ as we meet Him in the air and ever be with the Lord, 1 Corinthians 15:51-55; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

The beast and false prophet and all the ungodly political leaders from every nation that follows after them will be destroyed by Christ who does all of this from the air, Rev 19:11-21. When Satan is loosed he will gather all those who oppose Christ to compass the camp of the saints that are gathered in the air being the breadth of the earth in measurement as we are not on this present earth after being caught up to Jesus in the air, but they are consumed by fire (whether it is literal fire or just symbolic of God's wrath against them yet they are destroyed) that God sends down to destroy them and Satan is cast into the lake of fire.

Between the binding of Satan and being loosed scripture says 1000 years, but many parts of Revelation are symbolic in what John was shown in His visions as I see 1000 years only being a figurative numbering as I can't see God waiting a literal 1000 years before casting Satan into the lake of fire and then comes His final judgment and the new Jerusalem being ushered down from heaven after this present eart and heaven are restored back to what God created in the beginning.

So, the 1000 year reign is figurative and symbolic because you just can't see God waiting that long. That is a poor reason to make something figurative.

You contradict yourself concerning the Millennium. You say concerning (Rev. 20:1-10) that it is during the millennium reign of Christ that all things are subject to Christ. Then you say in your last paragraph, that you see the 1000 years only being a figurative numbering.

Yet the 70 years of Jeremiah were literal. The 490 years of Daniel are literal. The 400 years of God's promise to Abraham were literal. There is absolutely no reason to think the 1000 years mentioned 4 times in (Rev. 20:1-10) are not literal. Other then it doesn't fit your overall endtime doctrine. Solution: make it symbolic.

This is why it is useless for you and I to discuss the Rapture, Tribulation, and Millennium, or really the Bible at all.

You had to change your method of interpretation when you quit believing in the pre-trib position.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

How do you know whether it would make a difference or not.

Please show me from Rev 8:6-13 (first four trumpets); 9:1-21(fifth and sixth trumpet); 11:15-19 (seventh trumpet) where it mentions a seven year period? I think it is only fair for you to answer my question as I feel I have answered all of yours.

When you admit the thousand years in (Rev. 20:1-10) means a thousand years, then I address your question. Till then, it would be useless.

Why are you reluctant to list the commentaries you use for (Daniel), (Matthew), and (Revelation)?

Quantrill

 

[for_his_glory]

When you admit the thousand years in (Rev. 20:1-10) means a thousand years, then I address your question. Till then, it would be useless.

Why are you reluctant to list the commentaries you use for (Daniel), (Matthew), and (Revelation)?

Quantrill

By asking you to share those scriptures that speak of a literal seven year tribulation you might have shown me something I never saw before. You might have missed a great opportunity to teach me something.

I am not reluctant to list that of what you asked for as I already told you I do not use any, but only the scriptures and a lot of cross-referencing between them for the full context, plus the history I study that will once again repeat itself in the end of days.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

This is the vision John was given. If we are Raptured before the seven trumpets of God's great wrath and before the son of perdition takes his seat in Jerusalem causing all to take it's mark, then what is the point of John's vision?

There are not two separate groups of Christians, one before the seven trumpets that will be Raptured up and another set during the seven trumpets, but only one body of Christ called His Church. When Jesus returns on the last day then those who are in their graves that are God's own will rise up and be joined with those who are still alive as they are caught up to the clouds and given their new glorified bodies to meet Jesus in the air and will evermore be with Him. 1 Corinthians 15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

 

[for_his_glory]

We do not enter the Millennial Kingdom here on earth in our natural bodies, but in new glorified bodies, 1 Corinthians 15:51-54. When Christ returns in the air on the last day we are then caught up to meet Him in the air and so shall we ever be with the Lord as He has made us unto our God kings and priests and we shall reign on the earth as we rule with Him over the nations as His enemies have become His footstool in the end of days, John 5:28, 29; 6:40; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18; Rev 5:10; Psalms 110:1-4; Hebrews 10:12, 13.

Matthew 24:29-31; Rev 19:11-21 Jesus descends down from heaven with His army of the host (angels) of heaven as while remaining in the air He sends His angels out to the four corners of the earth to gather His own to Him. He will destroy the beast and false prophet casting them alive into the lake of fire, Rev 19:15, 16. The remnant in Rev 19:21 are the world leaders of every nation on the earth that have followed after the beast that rules their government. The remnant will be slain by the very words Jesus speaks of their damnation as the fowls will be filled with their flesh and at that time Satan will be chained and bound so he can not interfere with the ungodly people that are still alive on earth that become the footstool of Christ. Then the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and of his Christ and He shall reign for ever and the saints will begin to rule over the nations here on earth, Rev 11:15; 5:10; 20:1-3; Matthew 5:5.

Rev 20:7-10 Those that have rejected Christ that still remain on earth after the beast, false prophet and all the ruling leaders from every nation that followed after the beast are destroyed are those who are the numbering as the sand of the sea. These are the enemy of God that Satan uses to battle against the saints during the battle of Armageddon that are camped upon the breadth of the earth after Satan is released for a season, Psalms 2:7-10; 110; Ezekiel 36; 37; Rev 20:7-9. The saints are camped not only in Jerusalem the beloved city of God, but also throughout the breadth of the earth. It's only the 144,000 generational Jews that believe in Christ that have returned to Jerusalem. After the 1000 years are fulfilled Satan is set loosed for a season and goes out to deceive the nations as he gathers the enemies of Christ to battle against the saints as the numbering of unbelievers is like the sand of the sea. As the enemy surrounds the camp of the saints God sends fire down from heaven and destroys the enemy and Satan is cast into the lake of fire. Zechariah 14; Luke 21:20-22 and Rev 16:16 mentions the battle of Armageddon when Christ and His army of angels return as Christ plants His feet on the mount of Olives for the final battle as Gog and Magog found in Ezekiel Chapter 38 is the battle of Rev 20:7-9.

(IMO 1000 years is a figurative number, not a literal number. It is figurative like the numbering in Deuteronomy 7:9; 1Chronicles 16:15; Psalms 50:10; 90:4; 105:8 Ecc 6:6; 7:28; Daniel 5:1; 2Peter 3:8.)

John 5:28, 29; Rev 20:11-15, now comes the Great White throne judgment as the books are opened with one of them being the Lamb's book of life where all the saints of God have their names written as they have part of the first resurrection of eternal life on such the second death hath no power, Rev 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:54-57. The other book is opened being the book of damnation where the enemies of God that were killed while trying to destroy the camp of the saints are now joined with those enemies of Christ that were also raised from their graves and are reserved, 2 Peter 2:9, as now since they were condemned and judged will be cast into the lake of fire. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. While the saints are with Jesus the earth will be renewed and the New Jerusalem is ushered down from heaven, Rev 21.

Matthew 24:22 these days are shortened for a time that only God holds back or extends to allow His purpose for the last one to repent and turn back to Him before Christ returns, Rev 19, as God alone knows their name. Only God can shorten days like He did with Hezekiah as He caused the sundial to go backwards ten degrees, Isaiah 38:8, which was possibly five hours and again in Joshua 10:12-14 God extended the daylight for Joshua to defeat the Amorites.

Christ returns on the last day at the seventh trumpet and on that day His Bride being the collective body of believers through faith in Christ and sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption will be caught up to Him. Both asleep in their grave and those who are alive at His coming will then be kept safe on that day while Christ fights the final battle casting the beast and false prophet into the lake of fire and slaying all those nations (people) who come out to fight against Him.
(John 5:25-30; 6:40; Ephesians 1:3-14;1 Corinthians 15:51-57; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; Rev 19; Zechariah 14:1-6; Luke 21:20-22)

 

[Quantrill]

By asking you to share those scriptures that speak of a literal seven year tribulation you might have shown me something I never saw before. You might have missed a great opportunity to teach me something.

I am not reluctant to list that of what you asked for as I already told you I do not use any, but only the scriptures and a lot of cross-referencing between them for the full context, plus the history I study that will once again repeat itself in the end of days.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

This is the vision John was given. If we are Raptured before the seven trumpets of God's great wrath and before the son of perdition takes his seat in Jerusalem causing all to take it's mark, then what is the point of John's vision?

There are not two separate groups of Christians, one before the seven trumpets that will be Raptured up and another set during the seven trumpets, but only one body of Christ called His Church. When Jesus returns on the last day then those who are in their graves that are God's own will rise up and be joined with those who are still alive as they are caught up to the clouds and given their new glorified bodies to meet Jesus in the air and will evermore be with Him. 1 Corinthians 15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

Teach you something? No one can teach you. Your commentary is the one to be read and all others ignored. Something becomes figurative because you believe God won't wait that long. Please.

You have a literal declaration of a thousand year period. You reject it because it doesn't fit your time line of end time events. So, don't keep asking for a literal declaration for the 7 year Tribulation. You already prove any such declaration can be erased with your 'figurative' and 'symbolic' interpretation. What doesn't fit, you simply make it 'figurative'.

And, by the way, just how much time are you saying your figurative 1000 years really stands for? 100 years? 500 years? How much? No matter what figure you want to declare, there is a difference between the resurrections. So, give me the figure.

No, you indicated you do use commentaries. I stated that it was strange that you don't use other Christians works, claiming it is just you and God in your studies. You questioned me and said you never said that. So I asked for the list of commentaries you use. Now you say again, you don't use commentaries.

So, which story is true?

If you don't use commentaries, then my statement remains that it is strange that you reject other Christians works, yet you always invite others to read your work on (Revelation). What makes you so special from past Christians?

As to your question, what is the point of Johns vision, the point is that the book of (Revelation) is the final chapter of what God is doing with fallen man on earth in His work of redemption. The Church didn't enter this work till Pentecost. There is no need for the Church to be in the Tribulation. Your question makes no sense.

Again, I never said there were two groups of Christians. You want to keep saying it, but I never said it. Christians are the Church. The Church began at Pentecost. The Church ends at the Rapture. Were those believers before Pentecost Christians?

Quantrill

 

[for_his_glory]

Teach you something? No one can teach you. Your commentary is the one to be read and all others ignored. Something becomes figurative because you believe God won't wait that long. Please.

You have a literal declaration of a thousand year period. You reject it because it doesn't fit your time line of end time events. So, don't keep asking for a literal declaration for the 7 year Tribulation. You already prove any such declaration can be erased with your 'figurative' and 'symbolic' interpretation. What doesn't fit, you simply make it 'figurative'.

And, by the way, just how much time are you saying your figurative 1000 years really stands for? 100 years? 500 years? How much? No matter what figure you want to declare, there is a difference between the resurrections. So, give me the figure.

No, you indicated you do use commentaries. I stated that it was strange that you don't use other Christians works, claiming it is just you and God in your studies. You questioned me and said you never said that. So I asked for the list of commentaries you use. Now you say again, you don't use commentaries.

So, which story is true?

If you don't use commentaries, then my statement remains that it is strange that you reject other Christians works, yet you always invite others to read your work on (Revelation). What makes you so special from past Christians?

As to your question, what is the point of Johns vision, the point is that the book of (Revelation) is the final chapter of what God is doing with fallen man on earth in His work of redemption. The Church didn't enter this work till Pentecost. There is no need for the Church to be in the Tribulation. Your question makes no sense.

Again, I never said there were two groups of Christians. You want to keep saying it, but I never said it. Christians are the Church. The Church began at Pentecost. The Church ends at the Rapture. Were those believers before Pentecost Christians?

Quantrill

I've yet to see any scriptures from you, or anyone, that stakes the claim of a pretrib Rapture. In forty years of studying Revelations beginning with Genesis through Revelations I've read through so many commentaries on the Rapture, but have never seen the scriptures they use to line up with what they say.

God's word is not a majority rules teaching of man's theories or doctrines on the Rapture that only started being taught in the early 1800's, but for each one of us to study on our own by the Holy Spirit teaching us directly or working through those He anoints to teach in all truths. I don't expect others to believe anything I say, but that which I put out there is my understanding of what has already been written. After all, they Scribes and Pharisee's didn't believe what Jesus was teaching and thought they did away with Him.

When I ask others to go read a certain Chapter in my book it is for the purpose of explaining that of what is asked of me as the reply would be to long and not be able to give the full context with all the scriptures I use. Read it, don't read it, but there will you find the answers to any question you ask me.

I have been opened with you answering all your questions, but it is sad that you refuse to answer only one question I asked of you. So with that I think our discussion must come to an end.

God bless you Quantrill

 

[DavidT]

WE DONT know if its pre mid or after trib .i have heard all 3 teachings what i do know is God has not appointed us to wrath
1 Thessalonians 5:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, i do lean toward pre and mid . i will never agree with having to go through the 7 years . all these preachers who studied scriptures can only speculate. because the Bible does not give a specific time frame..

We actually do... know when it is, because Lord Jesus revealed it.

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV


So really, those who hold to any other timing for the day of Lord Jesus' coming to gather His Church than the above, are without excuse.

This means beyond all doubt, Lord Jesus showed His coming to gather His Church is IMMEDIATELY AFTER the tribulation.

Furthermore, the Matthew 24:31 version of the gathering is about the 'asleep' saints He brings with Him from heaven. And the Mark 13:27 version is about the saints still alive on earth that He gathers when He comes. That reveals where Apostle Paul got the 1 Thessalonians 4 events from, i.e., from Jesus' Olivet discourse. So you Pre-tribbers, you really should... study Christ's Olivet discourse, because He gave it to His Church, not to orthodox unbelieving Jews, and not about the time of 70 A.D. either.