Was Luke/Acts written to an individual person or to all individual God lovers?

[chessman]

The labourer is worthy of his reward, is what Paul wrote in His letter to Timothy, but not yet set as scripture as the NT was not compiled yet.

If that were true, then why does he start the one sentence with “Scripture says” then conjoin one quote with another quote?

 

[Conqueror]

If that were true, then why does he start the one sentence with “Scripture says” then conjoin one quote with another quote?

All God-breathed writing (is) profitable for doctrine .......... (2 Tim 3:16).

the gospel of God which He promised before
through His prophets in the Holy Scriptures (Rom 1:1-2)

Paul didn't refer to the OT, but specifically to the prophets.

.

 

[Jim Parker]

Issac working seven years each for Leah and Rachel?

And then an additional six years. Total of 20.
But that's Jacob, not Isaac.

 

[Bull of the Woods]

Sorry!

 

[chessman]

What Paul said in 1 Timothy 5:..........And, The labourer is worthy of his reward, is what Paul wrote in His letter to Timothy, but not yet set as scripture

The following Bibles disagree (all placing the statement of Paul’s within quotation marks signifying his quotation of two different Scriptures). Additionally, the ones that use red letters, do so signifying the statement is literally a quote from Jesus (not original from Paul to Timothy). And some even cross-reference where, in the NT Scripture, Paul was quoting it from.

For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer is worthy of his wages.”​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=NKJV

For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer deserves his wages.”​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=ESV

For the Scripture says, “ You shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing,” and “ The laborer is worthy of his wages.”​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=NASB

For the Scripture says: Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain, and, the worker is worthy of his wages.​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=HCSB

For the scripture says, “You must not muzzle an ox while it is threshing,” and “The worker is worthy of his wages.”​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=LEB

As the Scriptures say, “When a work animal is being used to separate grain, don’t keep it from eating the grain.” And the Scriptures also say, “A worker should be given his pay.”​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=ERV

For Scripture says, “ Do not muzzle an ox that is treading out the grain,” and , “ Worthy is the worker of his wage .”​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=MOUNCE

For the scripture says, “ Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain,” and, “The worker deserves his pay.”​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=NET

for the Writing saith, `An ox treading out thou shalt not muzzle,' and `Worthy [is] the workman of his reward.'​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=YLT

For Scripture says, “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain,” and “The worker deserves his wages.”​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=NIV

For the Scripture says, “ You shall not muzzle the ox while it is treading out the grain [to keep it from eating],” and, “The worker is worthy of his wages [he deserves fair compensation].”​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=AMP

The Bibles that cross-reference the quotation are:

1.

Scripture says, “Do not stop an ox from eating while it helps separate the grain from the straw.” ( Deuteronomy 25:4 ) Scripture also says, “Workers are worthy of their pay.” ( Luke 10:7 )​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=NIRV

2.

For the Scripture says “You shall not muzzle a threshing ox” [Deut 25:4], and “The worker is worthy of his wages” [ Lk 10:7 ].​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=DLNT

 

[for_his_glory]

The following Bibles disagree (all placing the statement of Paul’s within quotation marks signifying his quotation of two different Scriptures). Additionally, the ones that use red letters, do so signifying the statement is literally a quote from Jesus (not original from Paul to Timothy). And some even cross-reference where, in the NT Scripture, Paul was quoting it from.

For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer is worthy of his wages.”​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=NKJV

For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer deserves his wages.”​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=ESV

For the Scripture says, “ You shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing,” and “ The laborer is worthy of his wages.”​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=NASB

For the Scripture says: Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain, and, the worker is worthy of his wages.​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=HCSB

For the scripture says, “You must not muzzle an ox while it is threshing,” and “The worker is worthy of his wages.”​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=LEB

As the Scriptures say, “When a work animal is being used to separate grain, don’t keep it from eating the grain.” And the Scriptures also say, “A worker should be given his pay.”​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=ERV

For Scripture says, “ Do not muzzle an ox that is treading out the grain,” and , “ Worthy is the worker of his wage .”​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=MOUNCE

For the scripture says, “ Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain,” and, “The worker deserves his pay.”​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=NET

for the Writing saith, `An ox treading out thou shalt not muzzle,' and `Worthy [is] the workman of his reward.'​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=YLT

For Scripture says, “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain,” and “The worker deserves his wages.”​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=NIV

For the Scripture says, “ You shall not muzzle the ox while it is treading out the grain [to keep it from eating],” and, “The worker is worthy of his wages [he deserves fair compensation].”​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=AMP

The Bibles that cross-reference the quotation are:

1.

Scripture says, “Do not stop an ox from eating while it helps separate the grain from the straw.” ( Deuteronomy 25:4 ) Scripture also says, “Workers are worthy of their pay.” ( Luke 10:7 )​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=NIRV

2.

For the Scripture says “You shall not muzzle a threshing ox” [Deut 25:4], and “The worker is worthy of his wages” [ Lk 10:7 ].​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=DLNT

Yes, scripture in the NT says this, but in the days of the Apostles writing their letters there was no NT to quote from, only the Tanakh that even Jesus quoted from. This is what I have been trying to get you to understand as the NT scriptures are those collective letters the Apostles wrote.

 

[chessman]

in the days of the Apostles writing their letters there was no NT to quote from

This is a provably incorrect statement.

Paul (an Apostle writing a pastoral letter to Timothy) quotes from Luke’s Gospel (a part of the NT) in 1 Tim 5:18.

For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer is worthy of his wages.”​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=NKJV

For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer deserves his wages.”​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=ESV

For the Scripture says, “ You shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing,” and “ The laborer is worthy of his wages.”​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=NASB

For the Scripture says: Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain, and, the worker is worthy of his wages.​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=HCSB

For the scripture says, “You must not muzzle an ox while it is threshing,” and “The worker is worthy of his wages.”​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=LEB

As the Scriptures say, “When a work animal is being used to separate grain, don’t keep it from eating the grain.” And the Scriptures also say, “A worker should be given his pay.”​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=ERV

For Scripture says, “ Do not muzzle an ox that is treading out the grain,” and , “ Worthy is the worker of his wage .”​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=MOUNCE

For the scripture says, “ Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain,” and, “The worker deserves his pay.”​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=NET

for the Writing saith, `An ox treading out thou shalt not muzzle,' and `Worthy [is] the workman of his reward.'​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=YLT

For Scripture says, “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain,” and “The worker deserves his wages.”​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=NIV

For the Scripture says, “ You shall not muzzle the ox while it is treading out the grain [to keep it from eating],” and, “The worker is worthy of his wages [he deserves fair compensation].”​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=AMP

The Bibles that cross-reference the quotation are:

1.

Scripture says, “Do not stop an ox from eating while it helps separate the grain from the straw.” ( Deuteronomy 25:4 ) Scripture also says, “Workers are worthy of their pay.” ( Luke 10:7 )​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=NIRV

2.

For the Scripture says “You shall not muzzle a threshing ox” [Deut 25:4], and “The worker is worthy of his wages” [ Lk 10:7 ].​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=DLNT

 

[for_his_glory]

This is a provably incorrect statement.

Paul (an Apostle writing a pastoral letter to Timothy) quotes from Luke’s Gospel (a part of the NT) in 1 Tim 5:18.

Whatever chessman as I have moved on as I said I am done with this discussion with you.

 

[Conqueror]

................ the NT scriptures are those collective letters the Apostles wrote.

Why are the works of Mark, Luke (Acts),
the author of Hebrews, James and Jude
included in the NT in that case?



.

 

[for_his_glory]

Why are the works of Mark, Luke (Acts),
the author of Hebrews, James and Jude
included in the NT in that case?



.

Even though they were not called among the 12 or like Paul's conversion their writings are just as important and inspired to be written as being their eyewitness account of Christ and what He taught as they testified of Him.

 

[Northman]

The labourer is worthy of his reward, is what Paul wrote in His letter to Timothy, but not yet set as scripture as the NT was not compiled yet. Now we have scripture called the NT as we read what Paul wrote in his letter. It's all the letters that became scripture.

These letters were scripture the second they were written. No waiting for anything to be compiled. Another apostle confirmed what Paul was writing as scripture 2 Peter 3:16.

 

[Walpole]

These letters were scripture the second they were written. No waiting for anything to be compiled. Another apostle confirmed what Paul was writing as scripture 2 Peter 3:16.

Does St. Peter give a list of all the inspired letters of St. Paul?

Why isn't the 3rd Epistle of St. Paul to the Corinthians in the Bible? (It is referenced in 1 Cor 5:9, 1 Cor 7:1 and 2 Cor 2:4). Or what about his epistle to the Laodiceans? (It is referenced in Col 4:16)

Who decided what epistles / books are Scripture?

 

[Northman]

Does St. Peter give a list of all the inspired letters of St. Paul?

No, we both know there is no list. I'm not sure that the idea of having an actual list is relevant to what Peter was being led to say though.

Why isn't the 3rd Epistle of St. Paul to the Corinthians in the Bible? (It is referenced in 1 Cor 5:9, 1 Cor 7:1 and 2 Cor 2:4). Or what about his epistle to the Laodiceans? (It is referenced in Col 4:16)

That's a fantastic question, and one I would ask myself if I was at that council. I wasn't there though so I can't answer that for you. There has to be someone out there that thinks they know. Google maybe?

 

[Northman]

Who decided what epistles / books are Scripture?

I didn't see this line when I first read that reply.

God would be the one who decides.

 

[Walpole]

No, we both know there is no list. I'm not sure that the idea of having an actual list is relevant to what Peter was being led to say though.


That's a fantastic question, and one I would ask myself if I was at that council. I wasn't there though so I can't answer that for you. There has to be someone out there that thinks they know. Google maybe?

Therefore, since St. Peter did not provide a list of which epistles of Paul's are Scripture (since we know some of his epistles are not considered Scripture such as the 3rd Epistle to the Corinthians and the Epistle to the Laodiceans), then 2 Peter 3:16 cannot be a statement testifying to the canonicity of his writings.

That leaves us with the million dollar question: Who decided the canon?

Shouldn't Christians know this answer since they profess the Scriptures are the word of God? Were Christians unaware of the answer until the advent of Google?

 

[Walpole]

I didn't see this line when I first read that reply.

God would be the one who decides.

When and where did God decide?

Is there a list somewhere purported to be inspired by God and thus itself Scripture?

 

[WIP]

I'm struggling to see how this discussion is related to the original post. Perhaps it would be good to get things back on topic.

 

[for_his_glory]

These letters were scripture the second they were written. No waiting for anything to be compiled. Another apostle confirmed what Paul was writing as scripture 2 Peter 3:16.

Yes, I agree these letters became scripture the second they were written, but to the public they were only orally read. Now everyone has access to not only hear orally, but to read them for themselves as they were put in a book form we call the Holy Bible.

 

[Northman]

Therefore, since St. Peter did not provide a list of which epistles of Paul's are Scripture (since we know some of his epistles are not considered Scripture such as the 3rd Epistle to the Corinthians and the Epistle to the Laodiceans), then 2 Peter 3:16 cannot be a statement testifying to the canonicity of his writings.

That leaves us with the million dollar question: Who decided the canon?

I can see what you are saying, but I just want to let you know I consider the words of a OT prophet and NT apostle as worth more than a trillion votes from any council. If I was standing in that crowd(if there even was a crowd) that heard Peter say that ALL Paul's letters looked like that and that people twist them as they do other scriptures, there wouldn't be a person alive that would be able to convince me that a freshly arrived letter from Paul with instruction is NOT scripture.

The varieties of canon are decided by none other than men. Even a quick peek at the wikipedia on Christian Biblical canons show varieties between the denominations.

When and where did God decide?

This is confusing. Why ask something nobody can know? Did he decide at the foundation of the world? Does time even matter?

I'm struggling to see how this discussion is related to the original post. Perhaps it would be good to get things back on topic.

I thought it was about determining what was scripture in the first place(in this case Acts and Luke). I could see what FHG was saying with what one might perceive as scripture. That somehow people might not have realized that the early letters were scripture. From the words that Peter spoke, it just didn't point in that direction. That if there was any doubt, Peter just cleared it up. I do believe the answer to the OP is "both and more". For someone like myself, who sees all scripture for personal and corporate use, in the context of a first century person, knowing what is actual scripture would be important.

 

[chessman]

I thought it was about determining what was scripture in the first place(in this case Acts and Luke).

It is.

I do believe the answer to the OP is "both and more"

It is. Paul clearly says Luke’s Gospel is Scripture in 1 Tim 5:18 when he quotes a portion and called it “Scripture”.

For the scripture says, “You must not muzzle an ox while it is threshing,” and “The worker is worthy of his wages.”​

1 Timothy 5:18 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:18&version=LEB

The underlined quote is OT. The red quote is NT.

And furthermore, Paul exhorted Timothy to teach the answer in the previous verse:

The elders who lead well must be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who labor by speaking and teaching.​

1 Timothy 5:17 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Timothy 5:17&version=LEB

So, a person that teaches Luke’s Gospel was NOT Scripture at the time of the apostle Paul’ ministry is ________ (correct or incorrect)?