WAS THE LAW FULFILLED OR ABOLISHED?

[JLB]

Abraham “ Believed God” and for that he was imputed with the “ Righteousness Of God”.

Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. James 2:23-24

• You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Abraham was accredited with righteousness when he “believed“, however he was actually declared to be righteous, (justified) when he obeyed.


Look at this principle from Romans concerning salvation—


For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:10


Believing and obeying working together to complete the faith requirement of salvation that we receive when we hear the Gospel.


JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

Yeah. Blood Bought 1953 does believe in Faith Only...
A movement I cannot agree with since the entire N.T. attests to the fact that we must also OBEY God.

Here is a proof that “ Faith Plus NOTHING” is ALL that is required to be Saved...

Remember the “ SinfulWoman” that poured the Perfume on Jesus .....the woman who used her hair to wipe up the tears that she had Shed upon His feet? Jesus told her “ Thy FAITH hath Saved you....Go In Peace”
Notice that their were no Conditions set on her Salvation.....No “ Go and Sin no more”.....No “ check in with me from time to time , I just need to make sure you have been Obedient Enough or verify that you have Repented from all of your Sins from this point forward.I got a little ahead of myself there when I said you were Saved.....I neglected to give you the Official “ Now That I received the Free Gift Of Salvation I have to EARN it by my Performance and Obedience” Pamphlet . It appears that I SAVED YOU simply because you Believed I was the One I claimed to be...Somehow I essentially said that you were Saved by FaitH Plus NOTHING....
Explain to me why I can’t be Saved in this same manner ...Faith Alone....

BloodBought,
We can't choose only the verses we like.
The above is very nice, and, of course, Jesus was right.
It IS faith that saves us,,,just like it saved the woman.
Faith saved all the persons He cured,,,or they believed due to the healing.

However, Jesus gave many conditions for being saved and remaining saved.
I'm not going to post verses back and forth and play verse ping pong.

I addressed your verse...now you address mine.

Matthew 7:24-27 JESUS said:
24“Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.
25“And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.
26“Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.
27“The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.”

ACT is an action word.
What did Jesus teach that we must act on?

Matthew 5:3-10

3“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

4“Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.

5“Blessed are the gentle, for they shall inherit the earth.

6“Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.

7“Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.

8“Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.

9“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

10“Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.



Matthew 7:23 JESUS said:
"Depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness".


Matthew 10:14-15 JESUS said:
14“Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet. 15“Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city ..


Matthew 15:11 JESUS said:
11“It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man.”



Jesus instructed us to DO all the above.
This will suffice for now.

How would YOU explain all Jesus said TO DO?

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Dead faith can not save.

No faith can not save.

No difference.

It’s lifeless and incomplete.

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26



JLB

We disagree...... readers can decide for themselves......

 

[JLB]

We disagree...... readers can decide for themselves......

Can you be a little more specific?


What do we disagree on?


I say with the scriptures that faith without the action of obedience is dead, and incomplete and can not function, just as a body without a spirit is incomplete, and dead, and does not function.


Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
James 2:17


Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:21


You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. James 2:24



For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26




JLB

 

[Tradidi]

Faith and Believing are the same thing.....Abraham’s Obedience was a Natural response to his Believing.....

What would you say about someone who believes but does not show those "natural responses" to his believing? Would you say such a person has faith?

 

[Link1983]

Chicken ,and beef both can carry parasites .

Chicken eat their own if its its not the same color chick,eat their waste .

Chickens are not something you,would eat of you grew up seeing them do what they do if that is concern .my,wife talked about how they will peck .

Fish will have worms ,always do .and must be cooked or raised to prevent that . certain fish are scavengers ,cat fish are ,not the walking type .

For everything God has created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude;
1 Timothy 4:4 AMP

1 Timothy 4:4 For everything God has created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude | Amplified Bible (AMP) | Download The Bible App Now

For everything God has created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude

bible.com

 

[Link1983]

What would you say about someone who believes but does not show those "natural responses" to his believing? Would you say such a person has faith?

A very good question! A person can believe something an still do something that he or she do not believe in.
Yes! We can have faith and still think or do something out of what we believe.
But it will affect ourselves. Everything we believe, think, say or do affect us, but they doesn't always correspond.

For the good that I want to do, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. But if I am doing the very thing I do not want to do, I am no longer the one doing it [that is, it is not me that acts], but the sin [nature] which lives in me.
Romans 7:19‭-‬20 AMP

Romans 7:19-20 For the good that I want to do, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. But if I am doing the very thing I do not want to do, I am no longer the one doing it [that is, it is not | Amplified Bible (AMP) | Download

For the good that I want to do, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. But if I am doing the very thing I do not want to do, I am no longer the one doing it [that is, it is not

bible.com

Read the whole chapter to se the context.
Hope this answers your questions.
Regards.

 

[jasonc]

For everything God has created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude;
1 Timothy 4:4 AMP

1 Timothy 4:4 For everything God has created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude | Amplified Bible (AMP) | Download The Bible App Now

For everything God has created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude

bible.com

I never said otherwise but since my wife was raised country ,she gutted,slaughtered many livestock

 

[Tradidi]

A very good question! A person can believe something an still do something that he or she do not believe in.
Yes! We can have faith and still think or do something out of what we believe.
But it will affect ourselves. Everything we believe, think, say or do affect us, but they doesn't always correspond.

For the good that I want to do, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. But if I am doing the very thing I do not want to do, I am no longer the one doing it [that is, it is not me that acts], but the sin [nature] which lives in me.
Romans 7:19‭-‬20 AMP

Romans 7:19-20 For the good that I want to do, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. But if I am doing the very thing I do not want to do, I am no longer the one doing it [that is, it is not | Amplified Bible (AMP) | Download

For the good that I want to do, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. But if I am doing the very thing I do not want to do, I am no longer the one doing it [that is, it is not

bible.com

Read the whole chapter to se the context.
Hope this answers your questions.
Regards.

It doesn't, can you please explain.

All I could think of is 2 Peter 3:16 warning us that some of Paul's letters are hard to understand and easy to twist unto our own destruction.

 

[Link1983]

I never said otherwise but since my wife was raised country ,she gutted,slaughtered many livestock

Ok. I understand. But God's word is never wrong. Right? Hehe
I have some education in agriculture. I think that many animals bred for consumption live a terrible life.
And especially chickens!
So morally.. It should make us think twice at least..
Maybe that's what you meant..

 

[Link1983]

It doesn't, can you please explain.

All I could think of is 2 Peter 3:16 warning us that some of Paul's letters are hard to understand and easy to twist unto our own destruction.

Wow! That was an interesting scripture that I can't even remember. (But have certainly read)

 

[Link1983]

It doesn't, can you please explain.

All I could think of is 2 Peter 3:16 warning us that some of Paul's letters are hard to understand and easy to twist unto our own destruction.

Paul is talking about how our spirit is in opposition to our flesh.
They are in constant conflict.

Read the full context like I said. I said that exactly so that you would not misunderstand.
It's very easy to misunderstand Paul I think. So your verse fits perfectly.

But this is very clear throughout the Bible; the spirit is in opposition to the flesh.
Mice.

 

[Tradidi]

Paul is talking about how our spirit is in opposition to our flesh.
They are in constant conflict.

Read the full context like I said. I said that exactly so that you would not misunderstand.
It's very easy to misunderstand Paul I think. So your verse fits perfectly.

But this is very clear throughout the Bible; the spirit is in opposition to the flesh.
Mice.

I did read the whole chapter, but I still don't understand why you mentioned this in reply to my question: "What would you say about someone who believes but does not show those "natural responses" to his believing? Would you say such a person has faith?"

I am sure you have a reason, I just don't see it. Please explain.

 

[Link1983]

I did read the whole chapter, but I still don't understand why you mentioned this in reply to my question: "What would you say about someone who believes but does not show those "natural responses" to his believing? Would you say such a person has faith?"

I am sure you have a reason, I just don't see it. Please explain.

Well. Is this person really sincerely trying to be a Christian or not?

If he or she is trying then there is a conflict between the spirit and the body and mind to some degree.

Galatians 5 speaks about this. And Paul is definitely not wrong, just because many people are misunderstanding his teaching. Peter is simply warning us about making a wrong understanding of it.

If this person does not really believe then this person is living in sinn.
And has already been condemned by the person's hypocrisy.

A true believers doesn't get condemned by God. Even if the person does wrong. When he or she repents he or she is forgiven.

The person needs to start renewing his/her mind so that the person gets in line with the Word.

Does that answer anything for you? If not I'm sorry and might have misunderstood.
Shalom

 

[Link1983]

I did read the whole chapter, but I still don't understand why you mentioned this in reply to my question: "What would you say about someone who believes but does not show those "natural responses" to his believing? Would you say such a person has faith?"

I am sure you have a reason, I just don't see it. Please explain.

And yes. This person can definitely have faith.
Even if th person does not always act like it. But I would say that not acting on your faith is a dangerous thing..
This person is wide open for beeing attached by the enemy.

 

[for_his_glory]

Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. 5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

Jesus came to fulfill the righteousness of the law as we no longer live by the letter of the law, but now by faith in Christ to all who will believe.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Jesus was made the fulfillment of Gods righteousness of the law as He is now our righteousness through faith as we are made righteous through the blood of Christ who has redeemed us from the curse of the law. Notice in vs. 18 that not all the law has been fulfilled yet as we are still under the moral laws Jesus gave to His Church in Matthew 18:15-20; 1 Corinthians Chapters 6-10 and James Chapters 4 and 5. All the law will be fulfilled when Christ returns and we are with Him forever.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

This is good that we can see some of your misconceptions and discuss them openly.


Faith is a noun; it’s what we receive from God, when He speaks to us, directly or indirectly as in the Gospel being preached through those He sends.

Faith being a noun, is the substance of thing we hope for.

Faith is a gift from God.


Believe on the other hand is a verb; it’s the action we take in response to the word that we have received from God, by which we have faith.

Believe in the original carries the idea of obey, and is actually used interchangeably with the word obey in some verses.


Example:


He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NKJV



He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NASB



Faith = Noun

Believe = Verb





JLB

Some very good Teachers of the Word would say that you have it exactly backwards .....I would be in agreement with them.....

My Harley has great breaks......I Will Trust them to stop me today when I come to a stop sign.... I Believe they will stop me ......I have Faith that they will stop me......
None of these things require any “ Action”...... they are merely thoughts in my head that give me comfort— “ things” that exist only in my mind. A thought or a thing is a Noun.
Faith is not an Action.......If I move on to actually apply the Brakes that I Believe and Trust in to stop me, I have PRACTICED Faith— NOW you got “ Action”..... lol....I do not remember enough of my College English Courses to go any further with this.....Sorry...

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

The Galatians truly believed the gospel, yet they turned back to the law for justification.

Not to be Nit-Picky, but when it came to the Gospel , some rejected it outright ( it is Foolishness to those that Perish) ......The Jews discussed in the Book Of Hebrews were “ Fence-Sitters” That could not decide whether to go with the Gospel or not—- they all “ tasted” it—- some became Believers, while others Stuck with their Religion Of Judaism..... or Returned to it.
The Galations Problem was not so much a Rejection Of The Gospel Flat-Out or “ Returning” to Judaism as a Pig would return to its Wallow......Paul said “ they started out so well”. Their problem was the SAME PROBLEM that we see Today in Christendom . They saw the Gospel as Essential to Salvation , just not ADEQUATE on its own for Salvation.They had no REST in the Gospel unless they could “ ADD” to it with a little Human Help—- Mixing Law with Grace. The same old story as we see today —— “ Sure , Jesus Saves.... B U T once you realize “ that” you gotta ... ( insert your pet Dead Work here ) The #1 pet Work today is “ Jesus Saves, But you Must Repent Of all of your sins before you die if you want to be Saved and Stay Saved!”
All those that add Works Of Human Effort to the Gospel Of Pure Grace are “ Fallen From Grace” and “Severed from the Cross Of Christ”. Some say these things means you are damned and others say it will merely mean that your Christian Walk will be a Crippled One....Regardless, you do not want either of these scenarios to play out in your life.....REST in the Gospel for your Salvation ......Plus Nothing...

 

[JLB]

Some very good Teachers of the Word would say that you have it exactly backwards .....I would be in agreement with them.....

Okay so you and the Teachers of the Word you follow, believe that faith is a verb and believe is a noun?


that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9


Believe - Strongs G4100 — pisteuō


πιστεύω
Transliteration
pisteuō (Key)
Pronunciation
pe-styü'-o (Key)

Part of Speech
verb
Root Word (Etymology)
From πίστις (G4102)



Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1

Faith - Strongs G4102 - pistis



Transliteration
pistis (Key)
Pronunciation
pe'-stes (Key)

Part of Speech
feminine noun
Root Word (Etymology)
From πείθω (G3982)

 

[Tradidi]

Not to be Nit-Picky, but when it came to the Gospel , some rejected it outright ( it is Foolishness to those that Perish) ......The Jews discussed in the Book Of Hebrews were “ Fence-Sitters” That could not decide whether to go with the Gospel or not—- they all “ tasted” it—- some became Believers, while others Stuck with their Religion Of Judaism..... or Returned to it.
The Galations Problem was not so much a Rejection Of The Gospel Flat-Out or “ Returning” to Judaism as a Pig would return to its Wallow......Paul said “ they started out so well”. Their problem was the SAME PROBLEM that we see Today in Christendom . They saw the Gospel as Essential to Salvation , just not ADEQUATE on its own for Salvation.They had no REST in the Gospel unless they could “ ADD” to it with a little Human Help—- Mixing Law with Grace. The same old story as we see today —— “ Sure , Jesus Saves.... B U T once you realize “ that” you gotta ... ( insert your pet Dead Work here ) The #1 pet Work today is “ Jesus Saves, But you Must Repent Of all of your sins before you die if you want to be Saved and Stay Saved!”
All those that add Works Of Human Effort to the Gospel Of Pure Grace are “ Fallen From Grace” and “Severed from the Cross Of Christ”. Some say these things means you are damned and others say it will merely mean that your Christian Walk will be a Crippled One....Regardless, you do not want either of these scenarios to play out in your life.....REST in the Gospel for your Salvation ......Plus Nothing...

Nice to see some progress: from "faith plus nothing" to "the gospel plus nothing".

Next step: what does the gospel say we need for salvation?