WAS THE LAW FULFILLED OR ABOLISHED?

[JLB]

Faith Plus Nothing is what Saves

So faith doesn’t need grace?

How about believing? Does faith require believing; believing that brings about doing what they believe?


Where does your doctrine come from?


By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8


This is the example the Holy Spirit has chosen to teach us, how we are to respond to the Gospel, so that we are justified by faith.


And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham. Galatians 3:8



Here is the scripture in Genesis, that Hebrews 11:8, and Galatians 3:8 are referring to.


Now the LORD had said to Abram:
“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
So Abram departed as the LORD had spoken to him...
Genesis 12:1-4


If Abraham does not obey “the word of faith”, the word from God by which he received faith, then how will he be justified?


By his disobedience?


I don’t think you believe that.



JLB

 

[JLB]

The Demons know EXACTLY who Jesus is....So do I.
The difference is this: Without Faith it is “ Impossible “ to-please God. I have never Seen God and I have never Spoken to God— for me, it takes Faith to even Believe He exists , much less to put the Fate of my Eternal Soul in His Hands. Satan Believes all Of these things because he has SEEN them. It takes Zero Faith to Believe something if you have witnessed it in person like Satan and his Evil Cohorts Have.He is absolutely excluded from the World Of Faith. He showed “ his” trust in God Many Millennia ago when he and a third of Heaven decided to war against God.....So much for any chance that he may ever have had — He Blew it....

Demons believe Jesus is Lord, but they continue to obey Satan.


So who is their lord?


“But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say? Luke 6:46


Paul says it this way —


Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
Romans 6:16

• to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey

JLB

 

[Edward]

Peter says much the same thing, just in a different way in 2 Peter 1:3-10

 

[JLB]

Peter says much the same thing, just in a different way in 2 Peter 1:3-10

Agreed.

Peter teaches a proactive strategy for us to undertake in order to insulate ourselves from the corrupting influences of this sinful world system that is controlled by the devil.

But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
2 Peter 1:5-9

It is the Spirit that empowers us, motivating us, and enabling us to do these things.


This “work” or effort of obedience in following the guidance of the Spirit in these things, that is to say, ”investing ourselves”, sowing towards the desires of the Spirit, rather than indulging In the corrupting lust of this sinful world which is designed to stimulate the sinful cravings of our flesh, which is part of the Spirit led lifestyle of every overcoming believer.

The lifestyle of victory, whose harvest is everlasting life.



Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:7-8

• but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Faith Plus Nothing is what Saves......Dead Faith beats the pants off of NO FAITH.....The Latter will get you Damned— The Former Will cost you Blessings in this lifetime and a lack of Rewards in the Next One....

Paul says the faith that justifies is the faith that loves:

"...the only thing that counts (towards justification-see context) is faith expressing itself in love." - Galatians 5:6

But so many in the church have been told that the faith that justifies is the faith that does nothing at all.
Genuine faith is signified by it's obedience to love others in accordance with the commands of Jesus. Dead faith is fake faith--the faith that can not justify/save.

 

[Walpole]

Faith Plus Nothing is what Saves......Dead Faith beats the pants off of NO FAITH.....The Latter will get you Damned— The Former Will cost you Blessings in this lifetime and a lack of Rewards in the Next One....

Romans 8:24 ---> "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?"

St. Paul tells us we are saved by hope. That directly contradicts your statement that "faith plus NOTHING is what saves".

 

[Son of Israel]

Just be obedient to the Faith

Rom_1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for >>>obedience to the faith<<< among all nations, for his name:
Rom_16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the >>>obedience of faith:<<<

The "obedience" is "Faith".

Simple

What is the argument trying to be made in this thread of a thousand posts?

 

[JLB]

Just be obedient to the Faith

Rom_1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for >>>obedience to the faith<<< among all nations, for his name:
Rom_16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the >>>obedience of faith:<<<

The "obedience" is "Faith".

Simple

What is the argument trying to be made in this thread of a thousand posts?

As you can see, the Book of Romans begins and ends with the obedience of faith, which is the context of the entire letter to the Romans.


Faith without the corresponding action of obedience remains incomplete and dormant, or dead, as a body without a spirit is incomplete and dead, unable to function.



JLB

 

[Son of Israel]

As you can see, the Book of Romans begins and ends with the obedience of faith, which is the context of the entire letter to the Romans.


Faith without the corresponding action of obedience remains incomplete and dormant, or dead, as a body without a spirit is incomplete and dead, unable to function.



JLB

Yes, obedience to the Faith.

Rom_1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for >>>obedience to the faith<<< among all nations, for his name:

Rom_16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the >>>obedience of faith<<<:

As you can see from the scriptures I posted, faith in Christ IS the obedience.

It appears folk here think "obedience" is something other than Faithful Belief in Christ...

The term "obedience" is quite specifically and directly referring to "Faith in Christ";

Faith in Christ is "obedience to the Faith" and gives us Eternal Life.

1Jn 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

(1Jn 3:23) And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

What other "obedience" is one imaging is needed except to be Obedient to the Faith of believing and Loving Jesus Christ and one another?

It is easy to know one who is obedient to the Faith, they shine as a city on a hill

(Mat 5:14) Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

 

[JLB]

What is the argument trying to be made in this thread of a thousand posts?

Was the law of Moses abolished?

 

[Son of Israel]

Was the law of Moses abolished?

2Co_3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
Eph_2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
2Ti_1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

(Col 2:14) Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
(Col 2:15) And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Col 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Gal 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

2Co_3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2Co_3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
2Co_3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

We are not of the Mosaic Law but of the New Law of Life and Liberty in Christ, thank you Jesus!

(Jas 1:25) But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

(Heb 7:16) Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.

 

[Tradidi]

Romans 8:24 ---> "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?"

St. Paul tells us we are saved by hope. That directly contradicts your statement that "faith plus NOTHING is what saves".

Indeed, by faith, by hope and much more:

By believing in Christ (Jn 3:16; Acts 16:31)?
By repentance (Acts 2:38; 2 Pet 3:9)?
By baptism (Jn 3:5; 1 Pet 3:21; Titus 3:5)?
By the work of the Spirit (Jn 3:5; 2 Cor 3:6)?
By declaring with our mouths (Lu 12:8; Rom 10:9)?
By coming to a knowledge of the Truth (1 Tim 2:4; Heb 10:26)?
By maintaining the faith (Col 1:22-23; Mt 24:13)?
By works (John 5:28-29; Rom 2:6, 7; James 2:24)?
By grace (Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8)?
By his blood (Rom 5:9; Heb 9:22)?
By His righteousness (Rom 5:17; 2 Pet 1:1)?
By His cross (Eph 2:16; Col 2:14)?

Put them all together and you have a definition of what Divine Faith is, the kind that saves, as opposed to human faith, the kind that does not save, i.e. merely believing.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

Romans 8:24 ---> "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?"

St. Paul tells us we are saved by hope. That directly contradicts your statement that "faith plus NOTHING is what saves".

Even the demons hope.....and they tremble......

Did Paul ever say, “ By Grace ye are Saved,through hope”

Did Jesus ever say , “ Your HOPE has Saved you, go in peace ....”
Yeah, I thought not....

I’ll say it again......Jesus told the Sinful Woman,” Go In Peace, your FAITH has Saved you”
He did not throw in , “ Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that thing about Grace.It was your Faith Plus Grace That really Saved you....I should never forget to mention that.And while I am at it ...for you to have that Faith ,,you had to be Born ,and then you had to hear about me, and to “ hear” you had to have an eardrum , and then you had to have an auditory nerve to take the message to the hearing part of your brain.........
I hope you get the point.....some things go without saying....The Grace Of God is involved and in fact, combined with Faith in the Salvation Of Anybody.....Some things are so obvious they can go without mentioning....

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

So faith doesn’t need grace?

How about believing? Does faith require believing; believing that brings about doing what they believe?


Where does your doctrine come from?


By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8


This is the example the Holy Spirit has chosen to teach us, how we are to respond to the Gospel, so that we are justified by faith.


And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham. Galatians 3:8



Here is the scripture in Genesis, that Hebrews 11:8, and Galatians 3:8 are referring to.


Now the LORD had said to Abram:
“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
So Abram departed as the LORD had spoken to him...
Genesis 12:1-4


If Abraham does not obey “the word of faith”, the word from God by which he received faith, then how will he be justified?


By his disobedience?


I don’t think you believe that.



JLB

grace

come

believing

Yes. Faith alone, all by itself is dead, and can not save.

Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
James 2:17


However, the “work” James is referring to is obedience to God to offer his son Isaac on the altar.

This principle of faith is called by Paul; the obedience of faith.


But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26




JLB

I am going to make an attempt to answer your many questions....

“Dead Faith” is not good, but it is better than ‘ No Faith”......Dead Faith will cost you much....NO Faith will cost you your Salvation.....big Difference....

Faith and Believing are the same thing.....Abraham’s Obedience was a Natural response to his Believing.....

The Grace Of God is such an obvious adjunct to Faith , it does not have to be mentioned. If not for Grace, everybody would be damned— Faith or no Faith .God ‘s GIFT of Salvation stems from God’s Love and Mercy,or in other words, His Grace. God does not need us and we can add Nothing to Him.....it was only Love and Grace that set everything in motion....Salvation by Faith Plus Nothing included

Where do I get my Doctrine? 1Cor15:1-4...... If one TRULY Believes the Gospel, they will not Add to it with anything that smacks of Human Merit ( Numero Uno these days being Repenting Of every sin before you die)
and they will Rest in it , which means they will no longer worry about their Salvation....you either Believe the Gospel is 100% adequate to save you or you doubt that fact, which God says makes you guilty of UNBELIEF— a VERY serious charge!

I am not quite sure what you think “ Obedience Of Faith” means.....it seems that you have twisted into some kind of Doctrine Of Works somehow......like obedience saves and if you have Faith you will be obedient enough now to Merit your Salvation..... I hope I am mistaken about that......Faith means Believing the Promises Of God.....Obedience to your Faith would be Acting on your Beliefs .....Acting on the Promise Of 1Cor 15:1-4 would mean to abandon all self effort (that is what Religion is ) in order to obtain Salvation or to Keep it.....

Abraham “ Believed God” and for that he was imputed with the “ Righteousness Of God”. He had Faith.....God tested that Faith and Abraham proved he Trusted God about His Promises in regard to the Bloodline beginning with Isaac when he told the man at the bottom of the mountain where the sacrifice was to take place that “ WE” shall return......If God was to take Issac , Abraham showed his faith that Isaac would be somehow brought back or resurrected so that God could fulfill His Promise That Abraham would be the “ Father Of Many Nations”....
God is testing you and I today by how we Respond to His Promise Of Salvation through His Gospel Of Grace Plus Nothing .Read Hebrews chapters 3 and 4 and see how God explains that you are like the Unbelieving Jews who refused to enter the Promised Land if you do not Trust His Gospel Enough to REST in it.....If you Truly Trust the Gospel you stop worrying about your Salvation.....

Did I get everything covered? anymore questions? I am happy to answer them ......I use some of the weak, Confused teachings in these and other forums as a Springboard to get the Truth of “Nothing But The Blood” out there for the poor Newbies being taught by ignorant, Jack-Leg Preachers . Newbies do not understand sometimes that Religion is the opposite of Christianity —- Christianity is so much more than “ do do this and don’t do that” and grit your teeth and make yourself do what you don’t want to do and give up anything that you enjoy doing — if it’s Fun, it just Has to be a Sin, right? Hogwash .Have The Faith to be FREE men and Women in Christ and have the Wisdom to take that Freedom to become a Slave to Christ ........Christianity has lots of Paradoxes .....and beats the hell out of Religion— Literally. Try it, you might actually like it......

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If one TRULY Believes the Gospel, they will not Add to it with anything that smacks of Human Merit

The Galatians truly believed the gospel, yet they turned back to the law for justification.

 

[JLB]

Dead Faith” is not good, but it is better than ‘ No Faith”......Dead Faith will cost you much....NO Faith will cost you your Salvation.....big Difference....

Dead faith can not save.

No faith can not save.

No difference.

It’s lifeless and incomplete.

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26



JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Abraham’s Obedience was a Natural response to his Believing.....

Which is exactly why the person with dead faith is not saved.
He has no believing to motivate the obedience that comes from faith.
If he did, he would have, as you point out, the 'natural' response of obedience.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...you either Believe the Gospel is 100% adequate to save you or you doubt that fact, which God says makes you guilty of UNBELIEF— a VERY serious charge!

That's right, that is a very serious charge.
The saved, Spirit-filled Galatians fell back into unbelief. Paul told them that to turn to the law of circumcision, feasts and Sabbaths, etc. for justification makes the justification they have in Christ of no value to them--they lose it. Then he goes on to explain to them how the law, summarized in 'love your neighbor as yourself, is the outcome of the faith that justifies.

"...the only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love." - Galatians 5:6

It is the faith that expresses itself in works that justifies. Paul did not say the faith that doesn't express itself in love justifies. But so many in the church are sure that dead faith justifies, too. And they take great comfort in that. Trusting in works to gain a declaration of righteousness is hardly the problem the church is dealing with today. The problem today is so many think their dead, works-less faith is the faith of a truly saved person. They are in unbelief and they don't know it because the church is telling them dead faith saves, too. Completely contrary to scripture:

"...if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? " - James 2:14

If someone does not have a changed/changing life, they may not have the saving faith in God they think they have. This is what the church needs to hear. Working to earn salvation is hardly a major problem in the church today.

 

[JLB]

Faith and Believing are the same thing.....Abraham’s Obedience was a Natural response to his Believing.....

This is good that we can see some of your misconceptions and discuss them openly.


Faith is a noun; it’s what we receive from God, when He speaks to us, directly or indirectly as in the Gospel being preached through those He sends.

Faith being a noun, is the substance of thing we hope for.

Faith is a gift from God.


Believe on the other hand is a verb; it’s the action we take in response to the word that we have received from God, by which we have faith.

Believe in the original carries the idea of obey, and is actually used interchangeably with the word obey in some verses.


Example:


He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NKJV



He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NASB



Faith = Noun

Believe = Verb





JLB

 

[JLB]

Christianity —- Christianity is so much more than “ do do this and don’t do that” and grit your teeth and make yourself do what you don’t want to do and give up anything that you enjoy doing — if it’s Fun, it just Has to be a Sin, right?

Brother is it fun to murder?

Do you find it to be fun to steal, commit adultery, lie ....
to harm other people?


Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Romans 13:8-9


What’s wrong with fishing, boating, playing football, baseball, hiking, hunting, sight seeing, watching an inspiring movie,
playing with your children, having a snowball fight, swimming...
and a thousand other things that don’t involve sin?



sin = hatred
obedience = love



For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3


THE POINT:


His commandments are not burdensome.

That means keeping His commandments are not hard, and do not require a “grit your teeth” “white knuckle” don’t have any fun lifestyle.



Be Blessed.



JLB