Bible Study Was the world really created in 6 days according to the old testament.

[Ambrose]

Hi again Ambrose,
While I appreciate your reply, where in the bible, notably the Old Testament do you get this idea from? Or is this idea foreign to the Bible and it's just an idea your entertaining based on modern evolutionary thought?

Thanks!

No my idea just came from how the same word used for day in the hebrew scripture is also used as age. I don't believe in evolution, Just a thought. Not saying thats the truth just thought i would get other replies

 

[Ambrose]

Only issue with the new testament quotes where you mention how they also said day and it would be rediculous to think this meant ages is that the new testament was written in Greek. Still not saying that the old testament is saying the world was created in ages, Like i said before just a suggestion.

 

[stovebolts]

No my idea just came from how the same word used for day in the hebrew scripture is also used as age. I don't believe in evolution, Just a thought. Not saying thats the truth just thought i would get other replies

Thanks for your honesty. Generally speaking, the greek word aion translated as age / eternity is generally at question lol.

Questions are always good to ask. Never stop asking them. But always be willing to receive an answer that doesn't line up with your idea. Scripture will always define scripture, and it never contradicts itself, although in areas at first glance, it may appear so.

Grace and Peace.

 

[Ambrose]

Whoa whoa whoa, Lets keep things nice and productive, If one disagrees lets agree to disagree and argue your point. Lets avoid personal attacks

I know everyone feels strongly in their beliefs but lets avoid that kind of stuff

 

[Thirstyone]

Then how long was Jesus in the grave 3 days or 3thousand years?

I support literal creation in 6 days.

Obviously, he was in the grave for three literal days, as there were people there who witnessed it.

I don't know if the 6 days of creation are literal or figurative as the only being around at the time was God and he didn't write it down for all of us at that time. We had men who were inspired by God to write about the account.

My faith doesn't depend on whether it was literal or figurative. I think discussing some of these things can bring about scriptures or thoughts that may help people who want to get a better understanding of things they have questions on.

 

[Pard]

Not about to read all those pages, but to the OP's OP:

Six literal days is all it took for God to create the universe. Age simply doesn't fit into that sentence. I don't see the problem with it being 6 days. I mean, if you can believe in a Being that can create everything you see, and you can believe in a Being that can raise the dead, and you can believe in a Being that can do all that God did int he Bible, then why is it so hard to believe in six literal days?

I realize that you are in school (right?) and have probably taken some geology class or something and have been taught that it took a bajillion years or whatever the current number is, but how is that any easier to believe than this? It isn't! It only seems easier because you were spoon fed this "knowledge" by "creditable" people reading from "board certified" books.

And to that all I have to say is, isn't your parent/pastor/minister/sunday school teacher just as creditable as some hippy teacher with a paper that says they are worthy to teacher? And isn't the Bible as "board certified" as any textbook ever written?

If you are new in Christ then perhaps you should do that Descarte did, assume everything you know to be false and start from there. Clean slate.

 

[stovebolts]

Obviously, he was in the grave for three literal days, as there were people there who witnessed it.

I don't know if the 6 days of creation are literal or figurative as the only being around at the time was God and he didn't write it down for all of us at that time. We had men who were inspired by God to write about the account.

My faith doesn't depend on whether it was literal or figurative. I think discussing some of these things can bring about scriptures or thoughts that may help people who want to get a better understanding of things they have questions on.

Hi Thirsty one.

I hope that what I say comes across as gentle, so please hear what I am saying in a tone of concern and care.

Why is it that you even have to consider if the 6 creation days are literal or figurative? When you say this, is there an echo in your mind that the earth is billions of years old as you've been taught in school?

As far as your faith, perhaps not your faith, or even perhaps not your faith at this time. But God gave us an intellect and frankly, what we read in the creation account does not line up with what is being taught in the science books that you have to know in order to graduate from each grade. Let me see if this jar's your intellect.

According to the Bible, the earth was formed before the universe. Actually, the earth had the start of an eco system with vegetation a day before the sun, moon and stars were created.

Science teaches us that the earth was created billions of years ago out of the universe and we evolved out of a single cells. Clearly, these two views are at odds.

Chances are, if you look at these two conflicting views honestly, you'll have an intellectual struggle. You can either shrug it off, create a "Secular view" and a "religious view", or you'll start to find a way to manipulate the biblical text to mean something different. Either way, it will cast doubt and will always be in the back of your mind and Satan will use this later on down the road.

Fact of the matter is this... you don't have to go down that road. You can arm yourself with the same facts, the same hard data that scientists come up with theories that the earth etc is 4.5 billion years old and that same data not only shows a young earth, but a young universe as well.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/

In short, the biblical creation story doesn't have to solely rely on church dogma. Science also bears out and confirms the biblical texts.

 

[Thirstyone]

Thank you for your post. I appreciate your concern and also the way you expressed yourself towards me. Although, I am a little confused by it. Are you saying that if you don't believe in the six literal days Satan will use this against you?

Do I believe God is capable of creating everything is 6 days. YES!!!

"For nothing is impossible with God." Luke 1:37

I think science does have valid points. Maybe I don't understand carbon dating then? It's not accurate?

I think since God has been here forever the scripture stating a day is like a thousand years just shows time, for him, may not literally be the same to him. Maybe I'm not expressing myself very well.

I will look at the link you posted.

Thank you again for your post to me and your concern.

 

[stovebolts]

Hi again thirsty one.

What I was trying to say is that anywhere doubt can creep in is a place for Satan to take advantage of you.

Many Christians have been led astray and into atheism because the stories of the Old Testament wasn't "logical" and didn't make sense to them, especially from a scientific point of view. They start by dismissing parts of the bible that they can't explain and eventually they look back and a big light bulb goes on and they dismiss the whole bible as myth. It's sad, but it's a story told over and over by many athiests who were raised in the church.

I made a comment early on that only Evangelicals try to make the word day in Genesis 1 as figurative and I would suggest that it is because they are trying to fit the bible into a current world view that states the world is 4.5 billion years old.

Quick lesson in Carbon 14 dating.
Carbon 12 is a stable element. It does not change elements.
Carbon 14 is an isotope of Carbon 14 and is unstable.
Carbon 14 starts off as Nitrogen 14 which is also unstable. Solar rays collide with the Nitrogen 14 and convert the Nitrogen 14 into Carbon 14.
The process of Carbon 14 converting back to Nitrogen 14 is called radioactive decay. This process starts when organic matter dies since all living organic matter takes in both C12 and C14. When something dies, it no longer takes in C12 or C14. the C12 remains at the same level, but the C14 starts to decay back into Nitrogen 14. This process, by scientific calculations can be measured back about 60,000 years with most equipment.

How does this all work? Today, the ratio of Carbon 12 to Carbon 14 is about a trillion to 1. In other words, for every trillion C12's, you'll have 1 C14. As something gets older, that ratio changes since there is less C14 that can be traced since it is in a constant state of decay. The results are ran through an equation and that's how they come up with a date.

In order for these calculations to be correct, the earth has to be at a state of equilibrium. Basically, what that means is that the amount of Carbon 14 being produced each day is the same amount that is decaying every day. Other wise, our ratio of 1 trillion to one will be off. Wilbur, the scientist who came up with Carbon dating said that from the beginning of the earth's formation, it would take 30,000 years for the earth to hit equalibriam. Yet when he did his math, he found an error and chalked it up to varience. However, scientists revisited Wilbers math adn the found that his math was correct. However, they also found that the Earth is 25% out of equalibrium. This means that items will date older than they actually are. Scientists know this, and they understand this, yet they don't adjust the formula that Wilbur instituted.

You see, Wilbur went into his formula with the assumption that the earth was 4.5 billions years old. This is well beyond the 30,000 years for the earth to reach equalibrium so he assumed we were at equalibrium.

Wilbur also assumed that the rate of decay was constant based on equalibrium, and we know that's just a theory, and not fact.

 

[Ambrose]

Not about to read all those pages, but to the OP's OP:

Six literal days is all it took for God to create the universe. Age simply doesn't fit into that sentence. I don't see the problem with it being 6 days. I mean, if you can believe in a Being that can create everything you see, and you can believe in a Being that can raise the dead, and you can believe in a Being that can do all that God did int he Bible, then why is it so hard to believe in six literal days?

I realize that you are in school (right?) and have probably taken some geology class or something and have been taught that it took a bajillion years or whatever the current number is, but how is that any easier to believe than this? It isn't! It only seems easier because you were spoon fed this "knowledge" by "creditable" people reading from "board certified" books.

And to that all I have to say is, isn't your parent/pastor/minister/sunday school teacher just as creditable as some hippy teacher with a paper that says they are worthy to teacher? And isn't the Bible as "board certified" as any textbook ever written?

If you are new in Christ then perhaps you should do that Descarte did, assume everything you know to be false and start from there. Clean slate.

Nope i dont believe in evolution at all reguardless of what i am taught at school . I just suggested that perhaps the "6000 year old geneology" may not be 100% accurate. Perhaps the world itself is a little older than humanity by a matter of

A. 5 of our literal days.
B. Age, Cant say how long an age would account for.

Just suggesting that perhaps 6k years isn't right on the spot. I by no means believe in evolution

 

[Ambrose]

If that post was for me? Then this post is for the site management. Is there not restrictions for anyone casting doubts upon the Lord Word.

And is not the..
Re: Was the world really created in 6 days according to the old testament.

And yes, please do allow the Matt. 10:25 verse to rippen up for it lets the few to understand who it is around here that are really the Beelzebub's.

DOUBT??
Webster has it: 1: uncertainty of belief or openion 2 : a condition causing uncertanity, hesitation, or sunspence 3 : distrust 4 : an inclination not to believe or accept

--Elijah

IF THAT WAS THE INTENT, Let me be clear im not saying it was. Please do not make things worse by attacking my statement. Let me say this again if it was not the intent than its fine i just didn't know exactly how to take it. Your right im not a moderator but i wasn't saying that with authority . I just said we should take a step back and keep from attacking eachother, Its not productive 2. I was just trying to relive some of the tension that seemed to be building up even stronger in the thread.

 

[stovebolts]

Nope i dont believe in evolution at all reguardless of what i am taught at school . I just suggested that perhaps the "6000 year old geneology" may not be 100% accurate. Perhaps the world itself is a little older than humanity by a matter of

A. 5 of our literal days.
B. Age, Cant say how long an age would account for.

Just suggesting that perhaps 6k years isn't right on the spot. I by no means believe in evolution

I'm glad your not biting into Evolution. Sadly, many do and what they do with sacred scripture to bridge the gap causes me to shudder.

As far as 5 literal days, what causes them to be literal? I mean, currently we measure a day as one complete revolution of the earth and as you know, this is how we know morning and evening to come into existence. However, the scriptures state that the Sun and Moon and stars were created on day 4... so from our current standard of measurement as it relates to the sun we are looking at 2 literal days. Are you starting to see the problem?

The first day, according to scripture is measured by morning and evening. That's the standard of measure, even though the sun did not exist at that time. However, what we do see in the creation account is chaos being turned into order and things naturally fitting in. Even evolutionist use the same pattern for evolution. Earth, water, land, plants then animals. Both science and the bible agree in this area.

If we are talking about order, then the rotation of the earth was constant as far as how long it took to rotate on revolution. Thus, morning and evening constituting on day.

As far as an age, generally speaking an Age denotes a rule, or dynasty. It could be the reign of a great kingdom, such as the Age of the Roman Empire, etc, but as a rule, it usually has to do with a way of thought. For example, the age of reason, the age of enlightenment, the age of X and it always has to do with a society as a whole. The age of empires all take the same course eventually, and knowing this you can depict what part of an age any particular dynasty is in. Thus Jesus says, "but you can't discern the signs of the times" as the era of the second temple was coming to a close.

I do not see this pattern in Genesis 1. I see very much the opposite. I see the earth empowered to create, and I see the sea empowered to create. The Earth was created packed full of potential, and it was set in motion to move forward. Have you ever wondered why the Bible starts off in a Garden, but ends in a City? And we call that potential.

So tell me, when you think of the idea of Age in Gen 1, what thought comes to your mind? I"m interested in hearing what your thoughts are.

Thanks.

p.s. As far as Elijah674, he's a good guy once you start to understand him. He is not abrasive in a derogatory manner and is a wealth of scriptural knowledge if you take the time to dig a bit.

 

[reba]

Whoa whoa whoa, Lets keep things nice and productive, If one disagrees lets agree to disagree and argue your point. Lets avoid personal attacks

I know everyone feels strongly in their beliefs but lets avoid that kind of stuff

Ambrose is correct. Also this is not a debate forum....reba

 

[farouk]

It's been said that if a cockroach were carbon dated, it might be found to be several million years old, supposedly ....

 

[Thirstyone]

Hi again thirsty one.

What I was trying to say is that anywhere doubt can creep in is a place for Satan to take advantage of you.

Many Christians have been led astray and into atheism because the stories of the Old Testament wasn't "logical" and didn't make sense to them, especially from a scientific point of view. They start by dismissing parts of the bible that they can't explain and eventually they look back and a big light bulb goes on and they dismiss the whole bible as myth. It's sad, but it's a story told over and over by many athiests who were raised in the church.

I made a comment early on that only Evangelicals try to make the word day in Genesis 1 as figurative and I would suggest that it is because they are trying to fit the bible into a current world view that states the world is 4.5 billion years old.

Quick lesson in Carbon 14 dating.
Carbon 12 is a stable element. It does not change elements.
Carbon 14 is an isotope of Carbon 14 and is unstable.
Carbon 14 starts off as Nitrogen 14 which is also unstable. Solar rays collide with the Nitrogen 14 and convert the Nitrogen 14 into Carbon 14.
The process of Carbon 14 converting back to Nitrogen 14 is called radioactive decay. This process starts when organic matter dies since all living organic matter takes in both C12 and C14. When something dies, it no longer takes in C12 or C14. the C12 remains at the same level, but the C14 starts to decay back into Nitrogen 14. This process, by scientific calculations can be measured back about 60,000 years with most equipment.

How does this all work? Today, the ratio of Carbon 12 to Carbon 14 is about a trillion to 1. In other words, for every trillion C12's, you'll have 1 C14. As something gets older, that ratio changes since there is less C14 that can be traced since it is in a constant state of decay. The results are ran through an equation and that's how they come up with a date.

In order for these calculations to be correct, the earth has to be at a state of equilibrium. Basically, what that means is that the amount of Carbon 14 being produced each day is the same amount that is decaying every day. Other wise, our ratio of 1 trillion to one will be off. Wilbur, the scientist who came up with Carbon dating said that from the beginning of the earth's formation, it would take 30,000 years for the earth to hit equalibriam. Yet when he did his math, he found an error and chalked it up to varience. However, scientists revisited Wilbers math adn the found that his math was correct. However, they also found that the Earth is 25% out of equalibrium. This means that items will date older than they actually are. Scientists know this, and they understand this, yet they don't adjust the formula that Wilbur instituted.

You see, Wilbur went into his formula with the assumption that the earth was 4.5 billions years old. This is well beyond the 30,000 years for the earth to reach equalibrium so he assumed we were at equalibrium.

Wilbur also assumed that the rate of decay was constant based on equalibrium, and we know that's just a theory, and not fact.

Thank you for the link to the site, and for further explanation. I did spend a little time looking around at the site and ended up reading about carbon dating, but your explanation is simpler. I need to digest the information and go over it more to make sure I have a good understanding. I will be reading more information from that site. Thanks again for the link. I also want to let you know how much I appreciate the way in which you posted to me, you were very kind and thoughtful in your responses.

 

[Ambrose]

I'm glad your not biting into Evolution. Sadly, many do and what they do with sacred scripture to bridge the gap causes me to shudder.

As far as 5 literal days, what causes them to be literal? I mean, currently we measure a day as one complete revolution of the earth and as you know, this is how we know morning and evening to come into existence. However, the scriptures state that the Sun and Moon and stars were created on day 4... so from our current standard of measurement as it relates to the sun we are looking at 2 literal days. Are you starting to see the problem?

The first day, according to scripture is measured by morning and evening. That's the standard of measure, even though the sun did not exist at that time. However, what we do see in the creation account is chaos being turned into order and things naturally fitting in. Even evolutionist use the same pattern for evolution. Earth, water, land, plants then animals. Both science and the bible agree in this area.

If we are talking about order, then the rotation of the earth was constant as far as how long it took to rotate on revolution. Thus, morning and evening constituting on day.

As far as an age, generally speaking an Age denotes a rule, or dynasty. It could be the reign of a great kingdom, such as the Age of the Roman Empire, etc, but as a rule, it usually has to do with a way of thought. For example, the age of reason, the age of enlightenment, the age of X and it always has to do with a society as a whole. The age of empires all take the same course eventually, and knowing this you can depict what part of an age any particular dynasty is in. Thus Jesus says, "but you can't discern the signs of the times" as the era of the second temple was coming to a close.

I do not see this pattern in Genesis 1. I see very much the opposite. I see the earth empowered to create, and I see the sea empowered to create. The Earth was created packed full of potential, and it was set in motion to move forward. Have you ever wondered why the Bible starts off in a Garden, but ends in a City? And we call that potential.

So tell me, when you think of the idea of Age in Gen 1, what thought comes to your mind? I"m interested in hearing what your thoughts are.

Thanks.

p.s. As far as Elijah674, he's a good guy once you start to understand him. He is not abrasive in a derogatory manner and is a wealth of scriptural knowledge if you take the time to dig a bit.

Okay, I have not tried fitting it in with genesis 1 itself yet. I got the information and went ahead and shared it. Perhaps next time i should do more intensive study before presenting the idea. If its necessary i can present some of the big problems with evolution as a whole, Such as Big bang, Organic evolution, Perhaps chemical evolution etc. I really just dont feel like fighting off swarms of opposition right now, But i suppose i am used to doing that

 

[stovebolts]

Ambrose,

Hopefully we will get our own sanctuary soon to discuss those kind of topics without the opposition. I would enjoy learning from you what you have to offer and I like your demeanor.

 

[Ambrose]

Ambrose,

Hopefully we will get our own sanctuary soon to discuss those kind of topics without the opposition. I would enjoy learning from you what you have to offer and I like your demeanor.

Yeah i appreciate how you aren't constantly on the offensive like some people i know in other forums :biglol It will be interesting exchanging information. In the way of fully understanding any of how scientific concepts work at the current time i have a website i am using to get free education all the way up to Linear algebra, That should help my pure understanding of any ideal when i want to learn details about it. (Exept for the strange center of a blackhole)

 

[chakham]

This is all i know about it and have not armed myself with any other scripture information but i would like to point that the original hebrew word used for "day" also serves for "age". Which brings you to think, Was the world created in a litteral six days that human beings perceive? Or was it created over a longer time?

There are some who say the Hebrew calendar began when Yehovah breathed life into Adam. That the time before that event is anyone's guess.

Others contend Einsteins theory of relativity shows the universe, space and time are expanding. When we look 'back' to the point of origin from our point of view in the space time continuum we observe 15 billions years have passed. Yet if one were looking 'forward' from the point of origin they may only see say, 10 days having passed since the beginning.

Others believe the universe was created in six literal days.

Considering the immensity and complexity of creation I think it might be difficult to nail the exactness of how long it took from just thirty two verses. I happen to believe it was six literal days. However one thing is for certain it was Yehovah who created it. I think thats what is important.