We Are Made Out Of Light...

[Corn Pop]

Exactly, Brother. The energy source is the Spirit. ...and god breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul...

Ahd I think who He is, is a (all powerful) Powerful Energy Spirit Being, who does literally sit on a throne.

Our invisable God sits on a invisable throne?.

The prophets visions and scriptures say he was sitting on a throne, but i think its all just symbolic and not a literal throne like a King on earth sits on. Explaining God and unexplainable things wouldn't be easy, so its all symbolic.

Look at Ezekiels vision. Its insane.

 

[Edward]

Our invisable God sits on a invisable throne?.

The prophets visions and scriptures say he was sitting on a throne, but i think its all just symbolic and not a literal throne like a King on earth sits on. Explaining God and unexplainable things wouldn't be easy, so its all symbolic.

Look at Ezekiels vision. Its insane.

I think He's only invisible in the natural realm here. The throne may be symbolic of something, but I think it's a true literal throne too. There's just too much talk about God's Throne in testimony and scripture for it to only be symbolic though. Boldly approach the Throne...The Judgement seat...Testimonies out the wazoo about the throne room of God...He's King of kings...There's a throne.

Ezekial's vision is insane, Brother! Wow. It's probably a real machine and that's just as best as he could describe it? I dunno for sure.

 

[Corn Pop]

I think He's only invisible in the natural realm here. The throne may be symbolic of something, but I think it's a true literal throne too. There's just too much talk about God's Throne in testimony and scripture for it to only be symbolic though. Boldly approach the Throne...The Judgement seat...Testimonies out the wazoo about the throne room of God...He's King of kings...There's a throne.

Ezekial's vision is insane, Brother! Wow. It's probably a real machine and that's just as best as he could describe it? I dunno for sure.

I said his vision is insane, as in, amazing. Not that I think Ezekial is insane, as in, mentally unstable.

A real machine?, you mean like a Ufo?

 

[Edward]

I said his vision is insane, as in, amazing. Not that I think Ezekial is insane, as in, mentally unstable.

A real machine?, you mean like a Ufo?

Oh, I understood you

Maybe. I don't think it's a ufo. God doesn't need transportation. He can translate beings around. I think that the chariots of fire that are spoken of in scripture...are not needed for transpo, but for style, if that makes sense.

 

[Free]

That's what the scripture says. So, it sounds as if your position is, since the bible doesn't spell it out very plainly in one "thou shalt shine like a light bulb" verse, that you wont believe it...Ok. As you wish.

No, the Bible simply does not say what, for whatever reason, you want to make it say.

Heart is used metaphorically in places in scripture, but that passage I posted actually specifies flesh heart. It may indeed also be meaning your spiritual heart?

That it states a "heart of flesh" is irrelevant, unless you also believe and can prove that before we become believers we have hearts of stone. But that is, of course, pure and utter poppycock. "Heart of stone" and "heart of flesh" are figures of speech, which should be obvious to anyone who claims to be a student of the Bible.

You're wanting to disprove this? I wonder why? You don't think you were made out of light? In the image of God? To each his own, brother. But I comprehend it.

I'm disproving it simply because you are eisegeting Scripture and making it say something it does not. That is a grave error; very dangerous on your part.

 

[Free]

Ya' know, I think that if you're out to disprove this, then you should go back to me first few posts where I posted all the scripture, and disprove those, tell me where I'm wrong or whatever and what the verse really means, and then also post more of your own scriptures that serve to disprove mine. I don't think it's really kosher to slide in to thread late and just say prove it...I have, it's all there.

How about before you go making such statements, you actually go back and read the thread. Do you not remember the first page where I made the sixth post addressing your passages from Scripture?

http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/we-are-made-out-of-light.68351/#post-1296509

You even made the claim that scientists believe that blood is congealed light. Twice, at least, I asked for proof and received none.

You have proved nothing. It has all been conjecture and eisegesis.

By Grace, we were created in the very image and likeness of God, to be His reflection, here on earth, brother.

Of course but that is not in question.

 

[Corn Pop]

Testimonies out the wazoo about the throne room of God...He's King of kings...There's a throne.

His Kingdom is not of this world. He maybe King of Kings but he is the true image of a King and a true King refuses the Throne, John 6:5. And that a true King serves his people, and retreats from being exalted by the people on a throne, and demand praise, worship, servitude, and sacrifice.

Christ has been turned into a false image.

 

[Edward]

No, the Bible simply does not say what, for whatever reason, you want to make it say.

What does this even mean? What do you disagree with, and how are you going to prove it wrong? Your post here is the equivalent of "Is Not!!"
Weird.

That it states a "heart of flesh" is irrelevant, unless you also believe and can prove that before we become believers we have hearts of stone. But that is, of course, pure and utter poppycock. "Heart of stone" and "heart of flesh" are figures of speech, which should be obvious to anyone who claims to be a student of the Bible.

I'm not sure where this heart of stone stuff comes from. I didn't say anything about having a heart of stone. You're picking stuff out and questioning it that I haven't even talked about. It does nothing except derail the thread and insert confusion and foolishness to it. Your argument isn't even with me, it's with scripture. So you don't believe that man could have a heart of stone, or that he could receive a new heart. That's scripture, and if you don't want to believe it, that's your business. Myself, I've picked up on stuff in scripture that makes me think that we're made out of light. Do I understand it all? No. Is it possible? Yes, it sure is. For some reason, this seems to have struck a nerve with you. Not sure why.

If I'm wrong, and we're not made out of light, what harm is done in tossing it around a little? It wouldn't detract from the gospel. If it is true, is it something that we should be aware of or would it even affect our life? Maybe. If we really have such a capacity and potential in Christ to be able to walk in Him as the Apostles did, then (to me), that would kind of be an unwritten responsibility implied there to us...to do the same thing. and if we don't, then we've dropped the ball I think. You ever think about how many people that you walk by on the street, and how many of them could have been healed if you had stopped and prayed for them? I don't like thinking like that. One time I got the urge (Idk if it was an unction of the Spirit, or just my own thoughts) to raise someone from the dead. I didn't do it, I chickened out. It was a nice funeral, but nothing happened. Now it kinda bugs me, because Idk if it was an unction from the Spirit. If it was, then I failed. Would you agree that we, as believers, are to rise up into the fullness of our Lord, Jesus Christ?
Matthew 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give./ Matthew 5:14-16 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. 15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven./ Isaiah 60:1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee.
So is that not true? are we not to do those things?

I'm disproving it simply because you are eisegeting Scripture and making it say something it does not. That is a grave error; very dangerous on your part.

What's the danger in thinking that we are spirit-beings who are made out of light?

You even made the claim that scientists believe that blood is congealed light. Twice, at least, I asked for proof and received none.

You have proved nothing. It has all been conjecture and eisegesis.

I told you before, Google it. You get like, a billion hits or something. This is what they're saying now. Maybe you've never heard this before, Idk. I'm not making this stuff up, it's all over the place, and just because you've never heard of it doesn't mean it's false.

 

[jasonc]

What does this even mean? What do you disagree with, and how are you going to prove it wrong? Your post here is the equivalent of "Is Not!!"
Weird.



I'm not sure where this heart of stone stuff comes from. I didn't say anything about having a heart of stone. You're picking stuff out and questioning it that I haven't even talked about. It does nothing except derail the thread and insert confusion and foolishness to it. Your argument isn't even with me, it's with scripture. So you don't believe that man could have a heart of stone, or that he could receive a new heart. That's scripture, and if you don't want to believe it, that's your business. Myself, I've picked up on stuff in scripture that makes me think that we're made out of light. Do I understand it all? No. Is it possible? Yes, it sure is. For some reason, this seems to have struck a nerve with you. Not sure why.

If I'm wrong, and we're not made out of light, what harm is done in tossing it around a little? It wouldn't detract from the gospel. If it is true, is it something that we should be aware of or would it even affect our life? Maybe. If we really have such a capacity and potential in Christ to be able to walk in Him as the Apostles did, then (to me), that would kind of be an unwritten responsibility implied there to us...to do the same thing. and if we don't, then we've dropped the ball I think. You ever think about how many people that you walk by on the street, and how many of them could have been healed if you had stopped and prayed for them? I don't like thinking like that. One time I got the urge (Idk if it was an unction of the Spirit, or just my own thoughts) to raise someone from the dead. I didn't do it, I chickened out. It was a nice funeral, but nothing happened. Now it kinda bugs me, because Idk if it was an unction from the Spirit. If it was, then I failed. Would you agree that we, as believers, are to rise up into the fullness of our Lord, Jesus Christ?
Matthew 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give./ Matthew 5:14-16 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. 15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven./ Isaiah 60:1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee.
So is that not true? are we not to do those things?



What's the danger in thinking that we are spirit-beings who are made out of light?



I told you before, Google it. You get like, a billion hits or something. This is what they're saying now. Maybe you've never heard this before, Idk. I'm not making this stuff up, it's all over the place, and just because you've never heard of it doesn't mean it's false.

Because we arent.adam was sinless until he fell and talked with God.he wasn't a spirit doing that.we are both .we recieve a new body and restoration of both occurs at the end of it all.God comes to dwell with men in the earth .see revelation 22.

 

[Free]

What does this even mean? What do you disagree with, and how are you going to prove it wrong? Your post here is the equivalent of "Is Not!!"
Weird.

It means that in light of the lack of any evidence for your position, you are making the Bible say what you want it to say. What I disagree with has been obvious--that our spirits are made of light; that our spirits were on the outside of our bodies prior to the Fall; that blood is congealed light; that we literally get a new heart at salvation.

I have already dealt with those things and shown how they are wrong but you just ignore my responses and keep asserting that you think you're right.

I'm not sure where this heart of stone stuff comes from. I didn't say anything about having a heart of stone. You're picking stuff out and questioning it that I haven't even talked about. It does nothing except derail the thread and insert confusion and foolishness to it. Your argument isn't even with me, it's with scripture. So you don't believe that man could have a heart of stone, or that he could receive a new heart. That's scripture, and if you don't want to believe it, that's your business. Myself, I've picked up on stuff in scripture that makes me think that we're made out of light. Do I understand it all? No. Is it possible? Yes, it sure is. For some reason, this seems to have struck a nerve with you. Not sure why.

It seriously seems as though you are not even reading my responses, nor Scripture. You quoted Eze. 36:26 to support your idea that at salvation we literally get a new heart:

Post #104

Post #106

So, looking again at the passage in Ezekiel:

Eze 36:26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. (ESV)

Do you now see "where this heart of stone stuff comes from"? Do you see why you should have talked about it but since you didn't, I did? Do you see that it is very relevant to understanding what it means to get a new heart, "a heart of flesh," and is in no way whatsoever inserting confusion and foolishness into the thread, nor derailing it?

IF, as you claim, we literally get a new heart at salvation, then, in the context of this verse, you must also believe that unbelievers have literal hearts of stone, not flesh. You cannot argue that "heart of stone" is figurative and "heart of flesh" is literal. Either they are both literal or they are both figurative. And we know with absolute certainty that every human has a heart of flesh.

My argument most certainly is with you and not Scripture. You must ask yourself why you are likely to find very few, if any, theologians and scholars throughout the entirety of Christian history, that have made the claims you are making here.

As to why it struck a nerve, it should do so with any Christian that takes the Bible seriously, who loves truth. Making the Bible say things it does not is a serious offence, whether it is making it say more than it does or making it say less. Biblical exegesis is serious and not something to do willy-nilly.

If I'm wrong, and we're not made out of light, what harm is done in tossing it around a little? It wouldn't detract from the gospel.

Do you really think there is no harm in making the Bible say something it does not? Is that not false teaching? Something like that could have implications and could detract from the gospel.

If it is true, is it something that we should be aware of or would it even affect our life? Maybe. If we really have such a capacity and potential in Christ to be able to walk in Him as the Apostles did, then (to me), that would kind of be an unwritten responsibility implied there to us...to do the same thing. and if we don't, then we've dropped the ball I think. You ever think about how many people that you walk by on the street, and how many of them could have been healed if you had stopped and prayed for them? I don't like thinking like that. One time I got the urge (Idk if it was an unction of the Spirit, or just my own thoughts) to raise someone from the dead. I didn't do it, I chickened out. It was a nice funeral, but nothing happened. Now it kinda bugs me, because Idk if it was an unction from the Spirit. If it was, then I failed. Would you agree that we, as believers, are to rise up into the fullness of our Lord, Jesus Christ?
Matthew 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give./ Matthew 5:14-16 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. 15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven./ Isaiah 60:1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the Lord is risen upon thee.
So is that not true? are we not to do those things?

If being a spirit-being made from light was something so necessary to understand and believe in order to do the things you have stated, why did neither Jesus nor the Apostles nor the other writers of the NT books ever make mention of it? Everything we do and ought to do as believers ought to be done in the power of the Spirit. It has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not we are spirit-beings made out of light.

What's the danger in thinking that we are spirit-beings who are made out of light?

The danger is that it is likely not true. Do you not think that believing a lie is dangerous? Do you think that believing a lie can lead to believing more lies? Would you agree that if poor exegesis leads to one lie and if left unchecked and unchanged, may lead to further poor exegesis and more lies?

I told you before, Google it. You get like, a billion hits or something. This is what they're saying now. Maybe you've never heard this before, Idk. I'm not making this stuff up, it's all over the place, and just because you've never heard of it doesn't mean it's false.

Do you want to know what really isn't kosher in a discussion or debate? Making a claim and then telling the other person to search for the proof that they asked for. I'm sure there are people who believe blood is made from congealed blood, just as some believe the earth is flat, but are there actual scientists that believe it? And just because you have heard of it doesn't make it true.

 

[stovebolts]

I think I found another scripture which supports that Adam & Eve were not naked in the garden before the fall because they were clothed in light.

2 Corinthians 5: 1-3
5 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.../

Before the fall, we were walking in glory. In light.
And now that Jesus has come, we are restored and this flesh garment can be overcome and dominated by the light of God.

Hello good friend and dear brother in Christ.

I do enjoy the way you think at times, and how God is shaping and molding you. You have a good spirit about you. I like that.

I may have said this before, but the sages understand light to be that which was brought forth through God and can be clearly seen in His creation which is, "Very good".

All that is good is clothed in light, for it radiates the Glory of our Father above. Adam and Eve were created in the very Image of God, and were fully clothed in light. It wasn't until after the fall that the light was covered with a garment provided by God.

Through Jesus, our garments have been removed and we are now clothed in Chris, which is the very light of the world. And this can be clearly seen through the works we have been predestined to since the foundation of the world, for we have been clothed in the righteousness of Christ, and that light shines brightly through the darkness.

Light can be known as good works which pierce through the darkness to expose our sins and call us to repentance. Not as a shameful walk, but as an empowering force of Good. Shalom is the state where the darkness is held off when the light disapates that which is dark.

Shalom

 

[Edward]

It means that in light of the lack of any evidence for your position, you are making the Bible say what you want it to say. What I disagree with has been obvious--that our spirits are made of light; that our spirits were on the outside of our bodies prior to the Fall; that blood is congealed light; that we literally get a new heart at salvation.

I have already dealt with those things and shown how they are wrong but you just ignore my responses and keep asserting that you think you're right.

Are we reading the same bible? What's Isaiah 60:1 mean to us? What does Matthew 5:16 mean to us?

You haven't dealt with these things, all you've done is to insert your opinion. Saying, "you're wrong" isn't dealing with it...? We actually seem to be having a difference in interpretation. So if I'm wrong, then you'd be obliged to explain what my posted verses really mean, if I'm wrong about them.

So, looking again at the passage in Ezekiel:

Eze 36:26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. (ESV)

Do you now see "where this heart of stone stuff comes from"? Do you see why you should have talked about it but since you didn't, I did? Do you see that it is very relevant to understanding what it means to get a new heart, "a heart of flesh," and is in no way whatsoever inserting confusion and foolishness into the thread, nor derailing it?

IF, as you claim, we literally get a new heart at salvation, then, in the context of this verse, you must also believe that unbelievers have literal hearts of stone, not flesh. You cannot argue that "heart of stone" is figurative and "heart of flesh" is literal. Either they are both literal or they are both figurative. And we know with absolute certainty that every human has a heart of flesh.

My argument most certainly is with you and not Scripture. You must ask yourself why you are likely to find very few, if any, theologians and scholars throughout the entirety of Christian history, that have made the claims you are making here.

As to why it struck a nerve, it should do so with any Christian that takes the Bible seriously, who loves truth. Making the Bible say things it does not is a serious offence, whether it is making it say more than it does or making it say less. Biblical exegesis is serious and not something to do willy-nilly.

Oh, I see where you got that. So you don't believe that we have a heart of stone, or that we get a new heart. And what's that based on? That a doctor can cut a flesh heart out of our flesh bodies? So if that's the case, is scripture lying? Is it wrong? I'll admit that it sounds preposterous that human flesh bodies have a heart of stone...and yet, that's what the scripture says, so what now? I know one thing, scripture doesn't lie, and it tells the truth. So we've got to be missing something here, or we're just not understanding it or how it is possible. It may have something to do with our spiritual side of our beings.
The way I figure it, is I don't need to be able to understand the hows of scripture, all I need to do, is to believe it. And there's something big here, which I may not be getting yet, and you're unwilling to look at this from any other vantage point except our flesh bodies. As if that's all there is or something.

Do you really think there is no harm in making the Bible say something it does not? Is that not false teaching? Something like that could have implications and could detract from the gospel.

What kind of implications? Detract from the gospel, how?

If being a spirit-being made from light was something so necessary to understand and believe in order to do the things you have stated, why did neither Jesus nor the Apostles nor the other writers of the NT books ever make mention of it? Everything we do and ought to do as believers ought to be done in the power of the Spirit. It has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not we are spirit-beings made out of light.

It's probably not necessary to understand it. It is necessary to believe Gods Word. Do you understand how God parted the red sea? No? So would that mean that you don't believe it? Understanding isn't necessary, belief is. I agree with you that what we do as believers ought to be done in the power of the Spirit. We were told to let our light shine before men. What Light? Why? What do we do with that instruction? I think that, in order for us to let our light shine before men, we should at least grasp the fact that we are made of light, to realize who we really are in Christ. That's pretty relevant, even if you choose to ignore it.

 

[stovebolts]

Free

No need to be so contenous in your zeal.

There are no bad students, only bad teachers.

The fact is, there is truth in what both you and Edward say and honestly, if you stake claim that you hold the high ground on scripture, then you ought to live those principals out, lest you become a clanging gong. You see, love is patient and it is kind. It is long suffering because it sees the wrong, and suffers, yet it never looses hope.

When God breathed into Adam, he breathed into him the very light of God, or as some call it, the very spirit of God. And to this day, every human being holds that divine spark.

So you see, Edward holds truth, and is not entirely wrong, and neither are you.

And so it is that our challenge remains to be united as one body building one another up in truth AND love, for the world will know us by our love for one another, and to that I reference and challenge you to proceed in the love described in 1 Cor 13 while checking your own fruit in Gal 5.

Peace and grace

 

[Edward]

The danger is that it is likely not true. Do you not think that believing a lie is dangerous? Do you think that believing a lie can lead to believing more lies? Would you agree that if poor exegesis leads to one lie and if left unchecked and unchanged, may lead to further poor exegesis and more lies?

Why do you say that it is likely not true? The rest of this is paranoia. You're telling me that I should be fearing the possibility that I might believe a lie...so don't try. Or simply...see it your way? But you're terrified of it. Scripture tells us repeatedly, to not fear. None of this path of thinking has told us to do anything which would be against the gospel. Jesus still died on the cross, rose on the third day, payed the debt for our sins...and so forth. And you're saying that, if it doesn't spell it out plainly, that's it's anti-Christ? Huh? That's paranoia friend. We can't be so scared of deception that we refuse to receive the truth.

If I believe that we're made out of light, then...I might believe a lie in the future? I don't get it. So...don't believe it. Why? Scripture tells us that a lot of it is written in a way which is hard to understand (so hard that we need the Holy Spirit to give us understanding, or we wont understand it). It was done like that, so the enemy would not understand, but that we could, if given revelation from the Holy Spirit. I'm getting the feeling that you'd refuse revelation from the Holy Spirit too.

We are spirit-beings. It would be good for us to understand this so that we may be able to reach out and grab ahold of who we really are, so that we can walk in it. If we don't try, we have no chance of winning the race set before us.

 

[stovebolts]

As an example of good exegesis,
I challenge anyone to properly redact Matthew 2:15 with Hos 11:1

It's not an act of acedemia, but rather an understanding of the underlying story.

 

[Free]

Are we reading the same bible? What's Isaiah 60:1 mean to us? What does Matthew 5:16 mean to us?

Look at the contexts, Edward:

Isa 60:1 Arise, shine, for your light has come, and the glory of the LORD has risen upon you.
Isa 60:2 For behold, darkness shall cover the earth, and thick darkness the peoples; but the LORD will arise upon you, and his glory will be seen upon you.
Isa 60:3 And nations shall come to your light, and kings to the brightness of your rising.
Isa 60:4 Lift up your eyes all around, and see; they all gather together, they come to you; your sons shall come from afar, and your daughters shall be carried on the hip.
Isa 60:5 Then you shall see and be radiant; your heart shall thrill and exult, because the abundance of the sea shall be turned to you, the wealth of the nations shall come to you. (ESV)

The "light" that "has come" is "the glory of the LORD," the presence of God among his people. That is what will draw all the people living in the darkness.

Mat 5:13 "You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people's feet.
Mat 5:14 "You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden.
Mat 5:15 Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house.
Mat 5:16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven. (ESV)

Why do you focus only on "light" and ignore "salt"? Why don't you believe we are spirit-beings made of salt? You must believe that to be consistent. But here, again, "light" is the glory of God, the gospel, true life, which believers are to let "shine before others." Believers have been given that light which casts out darkness and brings hope. It is that which illuminates the truth.

Joh 12:46 I have come into the world as light, so that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness. (ESV)

You haven't dealt with these things, all you've done is to insert your opinion. Saying, "you're wrong" isn't dealing with it...? We actually seem to be having a difference in interpretation. So if I'm wrong, then you'd be obliged to explain what my posted verses really mean, if I'm wrong about them.

I have, in fact, dealt with some of these things. "Seem to be having a difference in interpretation"? Most definitely having a difference of interpretation. You are presuming, without any basis for doing so, that any mention of light in the context of man means that man is a spirit-being made of light. You are inserting your own meaning into these texts. "Light" is a metaphor.

Oh, I see where you got that. So you don't believe that we have a heart of stone, or that we get a new heart. And what's that based on? That a doctor can cut a flesh heart out of our flesh bodies?

Yes, of course! We most certainly do not have hearts of stone before our conversion. Science and common sense tell us this, and nowhere does the Bible say otherwise. We can see our hearts in an MRI, we can hear them beat, we know they grow as we grow, we know that surgeons perform surgery on flesh hearts all the time.

So if that's the case, is scripture lying? Is it wrong? I'll admit that it sounds preposterous that human flesh bodies have a heart of stone...and yet, that's what the scripture says, so what now? I know one thing, scripture doesn't lie, and it tells the truth. So we've got to be missing something here, or we're just not understanding it or how it is possible. It may have something to do with our spiritual side of our beings.

There is no "we've got to be missing something here" or "we're just not understanding it." I am not the one missing something or not understanding. I have already said what this passage means: Post #107

If you want to be consistent in your way of interpreting, which is literalistically, the you must necessarily believe that when Jesus says he is the door (John 10:7), that he literally is a talking door. Similarly, when Isaiah says that "all flesh is grass" (40:6), you must believe that our flesh is literally grass. You seem to completely ignore or not be aware of the fact that the Bible uses much figurative language.

The way I figure it, is I don't need to be able to understand the hows of scripture, all I need to do, is to believe it. And there's something big here, which I may not be getting yet, and you're unwilling to look at this from any other vantage point except our flesh bodies. As if that's all there is or something.

This is a very simple, basic verse to understand. There is no such thing commanded in the Bible to just "believe it." The Bible never, ever calls us to get rid of reason and common sense and simply just believe. We are to study and try to understand what the author is saying.

It's probably not necessary to understand it. It is necessary to believe Gods Word. Do you understand how God parted the red sea? No? So would that mean that you don't believe it? Understanding isn't necessary, belief is.

You're mixing up to different categories here--actions and being. Recorded history in the Bible we believe and there is no need to understand how God did things but we still understand that God did do those things. When we talk about the nature of being, that is something else. The Bible saying that God parted the Red Sea is very different than the Bible saying that we have a "heart of stone." Now we need to understand what that means because we clearly do not and did not have hearts of stone. So we understand that Ezekiel, who alone uses that phrase, is using it as a figure of speech.

We were told to let our light shine before men. What Light? Why? What do we do with that instruction? I think that, in order for us to let our light shine before men, we should at least grasp the fact that we are made of light, to realize who we really are in Christ. That's pretty relevant, even if you choose to ignore it.

Again, you're putting your own meaning of "light" into the text. You must first understand what is meant by "light" in order to understand what it means to be a "light of the world". We are lights of the world because we are in Christ, we have the truth of the gospel, the hope for the nations, not because we are made of light.

2Co 4:4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
2Co 4:5 For what we proclaim is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, with ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake.
2Co 4:6 For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. (ESV)

 

[Free]

Free
There are no bad students, only bad teachers.

That may sound true but it clearly is not. Simple observation tells us there are both bad teachers and bad students.

When God breathed into Adam, he breathed into him the very light of God, or as some call it, the very spirit of God.

Do you have any biblical proof?

And to this day, every human being holds that divine spark.

Again, do you have any biblical proof?

 

[Edward]

If you want to be consistent in your way of interpreting, which is literalistically, the you must necessarily believe that when Jesus says he is the door (John 10:7), that he literally is a talking door. Similarly, when Isaiah says that "all flesh is grass" (40:6), you must believe that our flesh is literally grass. You seem to completely ignore or not be aware of the fact that the Bible uses much figurative language.

It does use much figurative language, however, the entire bible is not figurative speech. I've found through my studies that there are passages which seem figurative but are not. Others are both literal and figurative.

Isa 60:1 Arise, shine, for your light has come, and the glory of the LORD has risen upon you.
Isa 60:2 For behold, darkness shall cover the earth, and thick darkness the peoples; but the LORD will arise upon you, and his glory will be seen upon you.
Isa 60:3 And nations shall come to your light, and kings to the brightness of your rising.
Isa 60:4 Lift up your eyes all around, and see; they all gather together, they come to you; your sons shall come from afar, and your daughters shall be carried on the hip.
Isa 60:5 Then you shall see and be radiant; your heart shall thrill and exult, because the abundance of the sea shall be turned to you, the wealth of the nations shall come to you. (ESV)

The "light" that "has come" is "the glory of the LORD," the presence of God among his people. That is what will draw all the people living in the darkness.

Mat 5:13 "You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people's feet.
Mat 5:14 "You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden.
Mat 5:15 Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house.
Mat 5:16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven. (ESV)

Why do you focus only on "light" and ignore "salt"? Why don't you believe we are spirit-beings made of salt? You must believe that to be consistent. But here, again, "light" is the glory of God, the gospel, true life, which believers are to let "shine before others." Believers have been given that light which casts out darkness and brings hope. It is that which illuminates the truth.

Joh 12:46 I have come into the world as light, so that whoever believes in me may not remain in darkness. (ESV)

The "light" that "has come" is indeed, "the glory of the LORD. If we are in Christ, then we have the Glory of the Lord within us. Figuratively and literally. As far as being made out of salt, why would I think that we're made out of salt? I must believe that we're made out of salt to be consistent? Don't be juvenile, brother. Apparently, my mind doesn't work like your mind, and I'm able to rightly divide how we can be made out of light and not out of salt. You're starting to put words in my mouth by saying if I believe in this then I have to believe in that. Not so!

Yes, of course! We most certainly do not have hearts of stone before our conversion. Science and common sense tell us this, and nowhere does the Bible say otherwise. We can see our hearts in an MRI, we can hear them beat, we know they grow as we grow, we know that surgeons perform surgery on flesh hearts all the time.

So because we can see it, that's why you believe it? Then what is unseen is not to be believed? Why would you approach a scriptural situation carnally?

2 Corinthians 4:18
While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.../

Do you not believe that we're sitting with Christ in Heaven as we speak? Scripture says we are. We can't see it. So are we or not? Is that some kind of figurative allegorical metaphor, and we're not sitting with Christ? Of course not, for we look at what is unseen, and understand and believe that we are indeed with Christ right now. In this way, we are also able to look to the spiritual to understand other things. Like how we could have a stone heart and not realize it, because we haven't seen it, only been told about it. You don't know how it is on the other side of the veil, neither do I. We haven't been there. But we know it's there. Well, I know it's there, lol.

This is a very simple, basic verse to understand. There is no such thing commanded in the Bible to just "believe it." The Bible never, ever calls us to get rid of reason and common sense and simply just believe. We are to study and try to understand what the author is saying.

Really. Well that's all I'm doing. Trying to understand what's written, the picture it draws, how it fits in with all other scriptures, etc..
Are you sure that we're not told to believe the Word, but always with the admonition of go prove it? Let's see;
Matthew 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.../(Not in that one), John 3:16, John 6:35, Mark 5:36, Hebrews 11:6, Romans 10:10, James 1:5-6...(Those either)

Not only that, but check this one out;

Proverbs 3:5
5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.../

So I'd say that you're wrong in what you say here brother. Fist the belief comes, then the understanding comes. The point isn't don't study it out, but to try to spiritually discern what's behind it. That's the Holy Spirit's job. Yes, some things have to be taken in faith until revelation is given. Look to the unseen. You can't understand the bible by carnalizing it. (is that even a word? lol)

That's enough for this one

 

[Edward]

You're mixing up to different categories here--actions and being. Recorded history in the Bible we believe and there is no need to understand how God did things but we still understand that God did do those things. When we talk about the nature of being, that is something else. The Bible saying that God parted the Red Sea is very different than the Bible saying that we have a "heart of stone." Now we need to understand what that means because we clearly do not and did not have hearts of stone. So we understand that Ezekiel, who alone uses that phrase, is using it as a figure of speech.

The nature of being isn't something else. It's what I'm talking about. We were created in God image and likeness...we had His nature. Then we fell. We no longer walked in the nature of God. Jesus fixed that. Now we're able to step back into that nature once again. :wink

 

[JAG ..]

An unusual thread to say the least.

Fascinating in its own way.

My position is that there is not a single shred, not even a tiny fragment-shred, not even a miniscule sliver of solid reputable exegetical evidence to exegetically demonstrate that (1) our spirits are made out of light or that (2) our spirits were on the outside of our physical bodies prior to The Fall in the Garden of Eden, or that (3) human blood is congealed light or that (4) we humans literally get a new physical heart when we become Christians.

Moreover, the same incorrect "exegetical" principles that "support" those 4 highly speculative doctrines could also be used successfully to support the false doctrines of the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormonism, and most every other cult on the planet.

Using these same incorrect exegetical principles one can "prove" some very strange and unusual doctrines indeed --- as anyone knows who has merely thumbed through Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormon literature.

May the Lord help us all to interpret His word correctly and to clearly distinguish between pure speculation on the one hand, and declarative doctrines on the other hand.

Blessings, Mercy, and Grace we pray, for all of the people of God.