We are NOT in the End Times

[jasoncran]

We are not to set dates, but he gave us signs to know when its close, and prophecy for a reason. Look at the fact of Iran and Russia working together for Iran nukes. Bible teaches Russia will invade Israel. Also the fact Israel was reestablished in 1948. Study a little more, he is coming soon. Can I tell you a day or hour no.

post the verses on that. ezekiel 37?

1948 isreal's return so to speak isnt supported by the matthew 24 verse at all. theres no mention of a return to the jews to the land in the gospel but only a scattering.

 

[Vic C.]

post the verses on that. ezekiel 37?

1948 isreal's return so to speak isnt supported by the matthew 24 verse at all. theres no mention of a return to the jews to the land in the gospel but only a scattering.

Jason,

You just continue to impress me. You are hungry to seek the truth, regardless of it meaning you may have to abandon conventional thought.

My generation, ... are an evil and adulterous generation. They are famous for their rebellious nature. Evil and adulterous describes the whole generation to a tee.

Mark,

You just paraphrased something Socrates wrote about the youth of his time. :yes

 

[Sinthesis]

Now to the lower end of the range. This would correspond to the beginning of the third millenium from the day Jesus was raised from the dead. It would not surprise me if our Lord returned on the 3rd day. I am also using the fact that a thousand years is as a day to our Lord. Now the exact date of the birth of our Lord can not be known but we know he was teaching in the temple at the age of 13. According to historians, Herod died in 2 B.C. So it is possible Jesus was 13 when he and his parents returned from Egypt. That's the earliest. He could have been one or two as well. He began his ministry when he was about 30. I don't know how long he preached but it seems to me it was not even a year. So if Jesus was 13 in 2 B.C. when Herod died, then it is possible he was crucified and raised as early as 30-13=17 17-2=15 A.D. Add 2000 years and you get an early guess - 2015. If Jesus was 1 or 2 at the time of Herods death, then 30-2=28. Add 2000 years and you get 2028.

So that`s the range - 2015-2045. Thirty years.

There is no need for such a large range.

Luk 3:1 ¶ Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Trachonitis, and Lysanias the tetrarch of Abilene,
Luk 3:2 - Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John the son of Zacharias in the wilderness.​

 

[jasoncran]

Jason,

You just continue to impress me. You are hungry to seek the truth, regardless of it meaning you may have to abandon conventional thought.



Mark,

You just paraphrased something Socrates wrote about the youth of his time. :yes

context is important., when i read matthew 23 it says why jerusalam is judged

our lord says i will send my saints so that you may kill them! so that the blood will be on them all!

27Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

28Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
29Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

if we take the question in matthew 24 "when shall these be ?"then we get what he is talking about and it aint the final judgment of man, it cant be.

this doesnt in anywise mean that there no verses on the final days of man in that chapter just that its mainly focusing on the coming judgment of isreal.

 

[Hitch]

We are not to set dates, but he gave us signs to know when its close, and prophecy for a reason. Look at the fact of Iran and Russia working together for Iran nukes. Bible teaches Russia will invade Israel. Also the fact Israel was reestablished in 1948. Study a little more, he is coming soon. Can I tell you a day or hour no.

Can you tell me how you define 'soon' as used above?

 

[spartakis]

post the verses on that. ezekiel 37?

1948 isreal's return so to speak isnt supported by the matthew 24 verse at all. theres no mention of a return to the jews to the land in the gospel but only a scattering.

Well prophecy don't really say you will know when Israel becomes a nation again in 1948 it will be the end of time. I believe the Bible does have prophecy about Israel becoming a nation again. Also what I have spoke about with Russia and Iran. I recommend if you have not taken one yet, there are great prophecy classes out there. Faith Bible Institute with Bro Yates is really good. I am not going to debate and try and make you believe what I believe about the last days we would be here for a while. All I can say is I believe Christ is coming soon. I know that's been said for awhile. I am more worried about winning the lost and helping the saved then guessing a date.

 

[jasoncran]

Well prophecy don't really say you will know when Israel becomes a nation again in 1948 it will be the end of time. I believe the Bible does have prophecy about Israel becoming a nation again. Also what I have spoke about with Russia and Iran. I recommend if you have not taken one yet, there are great prophecy classes out there. Faith Bible Institute with Bro Yates is really good. I am not going to debate and try and make you believe what I believe about the last days we would be here for a while. All I can say is I believe Christ is coming soon. I know that's been said for awhile. I am more worried about winning the lost and helping the saved then guessing a date.

my church has prophecy classes but they are for the women group.

i used to be a die hard pre-tribber, and im of jewish descent. your promise of your interpretation of the nation of isreal must also apply to me as i am of isreal! yet im american and have no desire to move to isreal at the present. i would love to visit but you see isreal while is free but isnt like us as they have to restrict certain rights for self-protection. once cant witness one the street like here or also one cant marry with the state as each faith has its own courts.

what i dont get is that my own grandparents are this generation that saw isreals arise and also are dead now. they to my knowledge didnt convert. yet they went to isreal several times and also my grandmother was a member of the hadashah group(esther group in english)

i was told by our lord to start in the ot and i did and it recently happened again to me when he told me to show the royal explorers on isreal. i begin to think where i would start and while for other reason didnt show them all about isreal it made look hard at the ot and i learned alot.

when i did this looking at the books and chapters on the imagery in the ot and nt changed., i havent been able to see it all yet and its time consuming. but god is alive and im his. he will not forgot what needs to be shown to me.

if your looking for russia its ezekiel 38 and hal lindsey is the one who came up with that modern rendering of that. im not so sure on that but isreal in 1948 i have serious doubts.

has all of that come to pass? not imho but i cant dogmatic on isreal return. is it a miracle yes but if we take 1948 as you do,then we have to set a time on his return as all that generation that sees that fig tree are going to be all dead. do you see that problem? I DO!

MY GRANDMOTHER WAS BORN in 1919. now then if she is that generation that means he would have to come by at least 2019. a clear problem as most dont live to be hundred.

 

[Hitch]

Well prophecy don't really say you will know when Israel becomes a nation again in 1948 it will be the end of time. I believe the Bible does have prophecy about Israel becoming a nation again.

I'd love to see it, provided it does not refer to the return from Babylon, where is it?

Also what I have spoke about with Russia and Iran. I recommend if you have not taken one yet, there are great prophecy classes out there. Faith Bible Institute with Bro Yates is really good. I am not going to debate and try and make you believe what I believe about the last days we would be here for a while. All I can say is I believe Christ is coming soon. I know that's been said for awhile. I am more worried about winning the lost and helping the saved then guessing a date.

Please define 'soon' as you used it above

 

[spartakis]

Well I never said anything about the fig tree parable. So I will end that there. But who knows what a generations is considered anyway. prophecy concerning Israel return Deut 30:3 Ezek 36:24 Ezek 37:1-4. And yes Russia Ezek 38,39.

Prophecy concerning last days
Increase wars and rumors ( Joel 3:9, 10 Mt 24:6,7)
Extreme materialism 2 Tim 3:1, 2 Rev 3:14-19
Lawlessness Ps 78:8 Proverb 30:11-14 2Tim 3:2,3
Increase in speed and knowledge Dan 12:4
Departure from the Christain faith 2 Thess 2:3 1 Tim 4:1,3,4 2 Tim 3:5 4:3,4 2Peter 3:3, 4
Intense Demonic activity 1 Tim 4:1-3
Unification of the worlds religious, political, and economy systems Rev 13:4-8, 16, 17:1- 18:24

Wide spread violence Gen 6:11, 13 Rev 9:21
Rejection of Gods word 2Tim 4:3, 4 2peter 3:3, 4,16
Rejection of God himself Ps 2:1-3
Men minus a conscience 1Tim 4:2
Outright devil worshipers Rev 9:20 13:11-14
Rise of false prophets and antichrist Mt 24:5, 11 2Peter 2:1,2


I left some out. But I guess they call it prophecy cause we will have to wait and see. And soon well I dont mean tomorrow.

 

[jasoncran]

Well I never said anything about the fig tree parable. So I will end that there. But who knows what a generations is considered anyway. prophecy concerning Israel return Deut 30:3 Ezek 36:24 Ezek 37:1-4. And yes Russia Ezek 38,39.

Prophecy concerning last days
Increase wars and rumors ( Joel 3:9, 10 Mt 24:6,7)
Extreme materialism 2 Tim 3:1, 2 Rev 3:14-19
Lawlessness Ps 78:8 Proverb 30:11-14 2Tim 3:2,3
Population explosion Gen 6:1
Increase in speed and knowledge Dan 12:4
Departure from the Christain faith 2 Thess 2:3 1 Tim 4:1,3,4 2 Tim 3:5 4:3,4 2Peter 3:3, 4
Intense Demonic activity Gen 6:1-4; 1 Tim 4:1-3
Unification of the worlds religious, political, and economy systems Rev 13:4-8, 16, 17:1- 18:24

Wide spread violence Gen 6:11, 13 Rev 9:21
Rejection of Gods word 2Tim 4:3, 4 2peter 3:3, 4,16
Rejection of God himself Ps 2:1-3
Men minus a conscience 1Tim 4:2
Outright devil worshipers Rev 9:20 13:11-14
Rise of false prophets and antichrist Mt 24:5, 11 2Peter 2:1,2
Rapid advances in technology Gen 4:22

I left some out. But I guess they call it prophecy cause we will have to wait and see.

genesis 4?

and what they didnt reject christ in the days of the early church and there wasnt any falling away and heresies. and 1948 is refered by the dispy as being supported by mathew 24. that is why i said that.

this generation that shall not see death is that generation. wars have been around since the time of the fall, nothing new there.

its our bias that determines what is siad by that word for pains as in birth pains. your position on isreal isnt historical.

im not in any means a know it all nor sold totaly on preterism as it as they all do have wholes but modern isreal isnt really what god had in mind either.

a secular state with many religions allowed to worship isnt what god had in mind when he said he would bring them back.

keep that in mind, also keep in mind that in order for the ac to be there also be a statement by god saying the blood isnt good enough for him and the torah and also the law is good again.

the temple would have to be clean again inorder for it to be allowed by god to be called clean and for the aod to occur.

while most dispy wont say that but if they were to understand the history of channukah and what the cleansing of it was for and why jesus also refer to that event then you would be in total agreement.

 

[MarkT]

Mark,

You just paraphrased something Socrates wrote about the youth of his time.

I'm just saying my generation is an evil and an adulterous generation. It doesn't matter what Socrates said about the youth of his time. We are looking at the fulfillment of prophecy from Jesus' time. There has never been a time since Jesus which has so fulfilled the prophecy.

My generation came up with the pill and legal abortion. My generation celebrates casual sex as long as it is safe. There has never been a generation since Christ that has condoned adultery, except my generation.

There hasn't been a generation like this since Sodom and Gomorrah; who approve sex with whoever. My generation approves men having sex with men and women with women. My generation came up with gay marriage.

My generation let women rule over men. It gave women the right to abortion. It outlawed prayer in school. It removed the Ten Commandments from the court house. My generation laughs saying, 'where is his coming?'

 

[Hitch]

Well I never said anything about the fig tree parable. So I will end that there. But who knows what a generations is considered anyway. prophecy concerning Israel return Deut 30:3 Ezek 36:24 Ezek 37:1-4. And yes Russia Ezek 38,39.

Prophecy concerning last days
Increase wars and rumors ( Joel 3:9, 10 Mt 24:6,7)
Extreme materialism 2 Tim 3:1, 2 Rev 3:14-19
Lawlessness Ps 78:8 Proverb 30:11-14 2Tim 3:2,3
Population explosion Gen 6:1
Increase in speed and knowledge Dan 12:4
Departure from the Christain faith 2 Thess 2:3 1 Tim 4:1,3,4 2 Tim 3:5 4:3,4 2Peter 3:3, 4
Intense Demonic activity Gen 6:1-4; 1 Tim 4:1-3
Unification of the worlds religious, political, and economy systems Rev 13:4-8, 16, 17:1- 18:24

Wide spread violence Gen 6:11, 13 Rev 9:21
Rejection of Gods word 2Tim 4:3, 4 2peter 3:3, 4,16
Rejection of God himself Ps 2:1-3
Men minus a conscience 1Tim 4:2
Outright devil worshipers Rev 9:20 13:11-14
Rise of false prophets and antichrist Mt 24:5, 11 2Peter 2:1,2
Rapid advances in technology Gen 4:22

I left some out. But I guess they call it prophecy cause we will have to wait and see. And soon well I dont mean tomorrow.

Your citations are as subjective as your time reference.

I notice that world wide evengelization and the ever growing Kingdom of God are in your list of left outs.

In fact you have no idea of when Christ will return beyond the next 24 hours.

 

[spartakis]

genesis 4?

and what they didnt reject christ in the days of the early church and there wasnt any falling away and heresies. and 1948 is refered by the dispy as being supported by mathew 24. that is why i said that.

this generation that shall not see death is that generation. wars have been around since the time of the fall, nothing new there.

its our bias that determines what is siad by that word for pains as in birth pains. your position on isreal isnt historical.

im not in any means a know it all nor sold totaly on preterism as it as they all do have wholes but modern isreal isnt really what god had in mind either.

a secular state with many religions allowed to worship isnt what god had in mind when he said he would bring them back.

keep that in mind, also keep in mind that in order for the ac to be there also be a statement by god saying the blood isnt good enough for him and the torah and also the law is good again.

the temple would have to be clean again inorder for it to be allowed by god to be called clean and for the aod to occur.

while most dispy wont say that but if they were to understand the history of channukah and what the cleansing of it was for and why jesus also refer to that event then you would be in total agreement.

I guess only he knows. Trust me I agree with the temple. But I would assume we both could agree that neither of us know for sure on everything. I was told by a teacher once when we get to Heaven we will find out there was times when he was wrong and my Pastor was right, there will be times when he was right and my Pastor was wrong, there was times when I was right and he was wrong but mostly we will find out God was shaking his head at all 3 of us cause we all had it wrong.

 

[spartakis]

Your citations are as subjective as your time reference.

I notice that world wide evengelization and the ever growing Kingdom of God are in your list of left outs.

In fact you have no idea of when Christ will return beyond the next 24 hours.

I never said I knew when he would return just believed it would be soon, could be tomorrow or 100, or 1000 years. Never claimed to know anything. And subjective please explain. Man is this a place where Christians put each other down, I am starting to get confused.

 

[Hitch]

I'm just saying my generation is an evil and an adulterous generation.

That phrase is associated with apostate Israel . Israel was in the 'wife' position and commited adultery when she cried 'We have no King but Caesar .

' It doesn't matter what Socrates said about the youth of his time. We are looking at the fulfillment of prophecy from Jesus' time. There has never been a time since Jesus which has so fulfilled the prophecy.

My generation came up with the pill and legal abortion. My generation celebrates casual sex as long as it is safe. There has never been a generation since Christ that has condoned adultery, except my generation.

Where did you come up with that one ?

There hasn't been a generation like this since Sodom and Gomorrah; who approve sex with whoever. My generation approves men having sex with men and women with women. My generation came up with gay marriage.

My generation let women rule over men. It gave women the right to abortion. It outlawed prayer in school. It removed the Ten Commandments from the court house. My generation laughs saying, 'where is his coming?'

Your generation did not commit the regicde which is the stated reason for the historical judgment. I agree we are at a low ebb morally but we are not even close to Sodom or even first century Rome in depravity

 

[Hitch]

I never said I knew when he would return just believed it would be soon, could be tomorrow or 100, or 1000 years.

Can you honestly define 'soon' as a thousand years?

Never claimed to know anything. And subjective please explain.

For the most part the passages you cited have no connection with the 'end times' beyond your world/church outlook. Few if any of them can be said to regard the 'end times' in and of them selves.

Man is this a place where Christians put each other down, I am starting to get confused.

Im sorry if you fell put down because I asked you to define your chosen term.

 

[spartakis]

Can you honestly define 'soon' as a thousand years? For the most part the passages you cited have no connection with the 'end times' beyond your world/church outlook. Few if any of them can be said to regard the 'end times' in and of them selves. Im sorry if you fell put down because I asked you to define your chosen term.

No a thousands years is not soon. I said I believe it will be soon and that could be by the end of my life time. Like I said I and neither do you or anybody else know when he will be back. And some institutes, Bible guides teachers and etc... All would seem to agree them are last days prophecy.
In fact you have no idea of when Christ will return beyond the next 24 hours.

 

[Vic C.]

Your generation did not commit the regicde which is the stated reason for the historical judgment. I agree we are at a low ebb morally but we are not even close to Sodom or even first century Rome in depravity

I agree. Paul clearly pointed out their depravity in Romans 1.

There was also the problem of male (and female) temple prostitution in Corinth which Paul had to 'deal' with.

 

[Hitch]

No a thousands years is not soon. I said I believe it will be soon and that could be by the end of my life time.

Ok so is that your defintion ?

Like I said I and neither do you or anybody else know when he will be back. And some institutes, Bible guides teachers and etc... All would seem to agree them are last days prophecy.

All is quite a few . It suggests you havent looked at any that promote another view .

In fact you have no idea of when Christ will return beyond the next 24 hours.

Correct ,neither do I suggest nor imply that I see in the scriptures it will likely happen in my lifetime.

 

[spartakis]

Ok so is that your defintion ? All is quite a few . It suggests you havent looked at any that promote another view . Correct ,neither do I suggest nor imply that I see in the scriptures it will likely happen in my lifetime.

Actually I have looked and studied all views. I believe what I believe you believe what you believe. You can call me wrong all you want. One of my biggest beliefs is Christians should spend more time working together to try and spread the gospel instead of bickering about who is right and who is wrong on things like this. I guess that's what I get when I hit the internet