We are NOT in the End Times

[freeway]

I believe we are CLOSE to the end days. But it for sure won't be in 2012. We have a ways to go. All the tv preachers are going to have to change their dates.....again.

:yes

 

[Stormcrow]

I believe we are CLOSE to the end days.

So did the writer of Hebrews:

{1} God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, {2}in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. Hebrews 1:1-2 (NASB)

So did Peter:

{20} For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you {21} who through Him are believers in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God. 1 Peter 1:20-21 (NASB)

So did John:

{18} Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. 1 John 2:18 (NASB)

So did James:


{8} You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near. James 5:8 (NASB)

So did Paul:


{20} The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you. Romans 16:20 (NASB)

And so did Jesus Himself:


{23} "But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next; for truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes. Matthew 10:23 (NASB)

{28} "Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 16:28 (NASB)

If we're in "the end times", what were they talking about?

 

[Destructus86]

Here's a quote from someone who basically says the same thing I believe...just says it better

"Recognize the context
Verse 27, Jesus is talking about the Son of Man coming with the angels of the Father. Immediately after He speaks of coming "in His Kingdom" and that this event would take place before some of the people standing right in front of Him had died.

Now, I can't seem to find anything in Christ's speech that indicates that He is changing subjects between verse 27 and verse 28, from the Son of Man coming with the angels for judgment and the Son of Man coming with His kingdom. There is simply nothing in the text that tells us He is speaking of an event far in the future and then suddenly He is switching to speaking of an event only six days in the future.

Examine the claim
Christ is making a prophecy. Unless He was expecting most of His disciples to die within the next six days so that only some of them will be left, His prophecy isn't exactly fitting to the Transfiguration. His prophecy infers that only some of the people standing will leave to see the coming of the Kingdom.

Let's put it this way: even though the Transfiguration was a miraculous event, it still doesn't fit the nature of His prophecy. He implies that only some people will be remaining to live to see the coming of the Kingdom, but within six days, everyone He had spoken to was still alive. Wouldn't He have rather said "all you who are standing here will not taste death" instead of just "some of you who are standing here will not taste death" then if He was prophesying an event that would take place while everyone was still alive?

No, the manner in which He is speaking of the coming of the Kingdom infers that it going to take place more than a week later in time, because He was essentially telling His disciples that only some people would "not taste death" until the coming of the kingdom had taken place.

Read with consistency
In all three of the Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke), Jesus only ever use the "coming of the Son of Man" (or any variance of those key words: "the Son of Man comes," etc.) phrase when referring to a specific singular event that we know was to take place after His death.

Again, consistency. When Jesus spoke of the "son of man" He always used it as a third-person reference to Himself. We know this because we read it consistently. We never pick a random verse and say "Oh, in this one instance He was speaking of someone other than Himself." Right? Likewise, it makes no sense for us to pick this one verse 16:28 that mentions the "coming of the Son of Man" ("when the Son of Man comes in His kingdom") as an event different from every other instance He prophesied about the Coming of the Son of Man.

Reading in tandem
When reading other verses that Jesus gave about the timing of the Coming of the Son of Man, it fits perfectly with the most natural reading of 16:27-28. In Matthew 13, Jesus prophesies that His disciples, when persecuted, would not be able to go through all of the cities of Israel before the Son of Man came. In Matthew 24, Jesus prophesies that "all these things," which included the Coming of the Son of Man, would take place before His own generation had died out.

Reading these three verses in tandem, in their most natural manners gives us a timeline that is beyond that of His earthly ministry, but before the lifetime of His contemporaries had ceased.

Summary

So, when we...

recognize the context of His prophecy (there is no indication of a subject-change between verses 27 and 28, and the two verses, when taken as referring to one subject, are consistent with each other)
examine the claim of His prophecy (His implication that only some people in front of Him would be alive to see the Coming of the kingdom, as opposed to all of them being alive within the next week)
read with consistency (in all of the three Synoptic gospels, He only ever used the phrasing of "the Son of Man comes" or "the coming of the Son of Man" when referring to a single event that would take place following His resurrection and ascension, never an event that was to take place before His crucifixion)
read in tandem (the few verses Christ gives in regards to the timing of His prophecies are consistent with one another and project a timeframe far later than a mere six days in the future)
Then we can see that He was not prophesying about the Transfiguration. It's simply inconsistent with the rest of His claims."

 

[Stormcrow]

Here's a quote from someone who basically says the same thing I believe...just says it better

Unless He was expecting most of His disciples to die within the next six days so that only some of them will be left, His prophecy isn't exactly fitting to the Transfiguration.

Your source wrote a great deal to make a simple point: Jesus tells Caiaphas and the Sanhedrin at His trial (Matt. 26:64) after the transfiguration the same thing He told His disciples (Matt. 10:23/Matt. 16:27-28) before the transfiguration.

Therefore, none of these verses refers to the transfiguration.

 

[In Christ]

This is like the age old question o weather or not 7 days was IN FACT 7 days, o was it shorter, or longer? "coming back soon" could mean 5,000 years in God's eyes. We do not have the ability to fathom Gods time table...

 

[Hitch]

This is like the age old question o weather or not 7 days was IN FACT 7 days, o was it shorter, or longer? "coming back soon" could mean 5,000 years in God's eyes. We do not have the ability to fathom Gods time table...

Does God have the ability to commuincate His time table to us?

 

[Elijah674]

Are Earthquakes Really on the Increase?


We continue to be asked by many people throughout the world if earthquakes are on the increase. Although it may seem that we are having more earthquakes, earthquakes of magnitude 7.0 or greater have remained fairly constant.
A partial explanation may lie in the fact that in the last twenty years, we have definitely had an increase in the number of earthquakes we have been able to locate each year. This is because of the tremendous increase in the number of seismograph stations in the world and the many improvements in global communications. In 1931, there were about 350 stations operating in the world; today, there are more than 8,000 stations and the data now comes in rapidly from these stations by electronic mail, internet and satellite. This increase in the number of stations and the more timely receipt of data has allowed us and other seismological centers to locate earthquakes more rapidly and to locate many small earthquakes which were undetected in earlier years. The NEIC now locates about 20,000 earthquakes each year or approximately 50 per day. Also, because of the improvements in communications and the increased interest in the environment and natural disasters, the public now learns about more earthquakes.
According to long-term records (since about 1900), we expect about 17 major earthquakes (7.0 - 7.9) and one great earthquake (8.0 or above) in any given year.




http://earthquake.usgs.gov/learn/topics/increase_in_earthquakes.php

According to the prophecy of Christ in Matt. 24:21, the END'S Start escalates. It is not just earthquakes. Note the New Year of 2012's edition of the past 2011 year that has not been written by man yet, and see what history reports from God?? Matt. 24:21 is where we are at. And next?? Read on for what to expect. The preterist movement is right on time. ;)

--Elijah

 

[jasoncran]

matthew 23

33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

34Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

so this will all happen again. the jews repent and reject again? and notice whom is judged. the lord can come at any moment.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Sure we are -

We've been in 'em for over 2000 years (give or take).

And GUESS WHAT!!!!!! The end of the age is closer today - than it was yesterday (duh).

I see the fragmented and scattered condition of the church as a likely indication that probably the Return of Christ won't be tomorrow, and things can move quickly when the Holy Spirit gets involved in the business of bringing "Unity in the Spirit". Personally I expect to die physically before the culmination of the age (according to the medical community, that should have been in 2004 - oh well).

 

[Bob Carabbio]

OF course -

"Does God have the ability to commuincate His time table to us?"

Of course HE does. On the other hand he's already told us that we "Should be able" to discern the "Times" as they approach, but we WILL NOT know the day or the hour. Case closed.

 

[Stormcrow]

The end of the age is closer today

The end of what age?

 

[Elijah674]

The end of what age?

Try Matt. 24:21's time. Be sure to keep this 2011 edition of all of the record happinings.
Then read the following verses & see if this prophecy is recording todays 'age'?

As 'i' see it, this is exactly where we are at. All (satan's) hell is breaking lose & his work will deceive even the 'elect' if it were possible. And miracles? 2 Thess. 2

[4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

[5] Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
[6] And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

[7] For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

[8] And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

(OK, take note here: and keep you eyes & ears on the Word!)

[9] Even him, whose coming is [[after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders]],

--Elijah

 

[reba]

Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

Mar 13:8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.


Luk 21:11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.

Where in these scriptures does it say earth quakes will increase?

 

[smaller]

Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

Mar 13:8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.


Luk 21:11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.

Where in these scriptures does it say earth quakes will increase?

The earthquakes and the nations rising against each others are synonymous in spiritual understandings.

There is a final a great earthquake in Rev. 6, 11 and 16

They are spiritual matters.

s

 

[Elijah674]

Try Matt. 24:21's time. Be sure to keep this 2011 edition of all of the record happinings.
Then read the following verses & see if this prophecy is recording todays 'age'?

As 'i' see it, this is exactly where we are at. All (satan's) hell is breaking lose & his work will deceive even the 'elect' if it were possible. And miracles? 2 Thess. 2

[4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

[5] Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
[6] And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

[7] For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

[8] And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

(OK, take note here: and keep you eyes & ears on the Word!)

[9] Even him, whose coming is [[after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders]],

--Elijah

Me again:
Matt. 24 [21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, [no, nor ever shall be].
[22] And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
[23] [Then] if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
[24] For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and [shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect].

Surely we see escalation stated of 'great tribulation' here? And [[[it must include all of the tribulations that befall man from the 'beginning of the world']]]. (+ much more) If so, then the following verses will fall in place going forward.

One thing is certain, we will know as these 'shortened' days come on us, right? No, jesting of course, for we see that this time period will deceive even nearly the very ellect. And the thread Title? Re: We are NOT in the End Times, has the post as not one even of the very ellect as 'some' see it!

But, lets just see what the New Year brings to the table?

--Elijah

 

[Chris]

I just booked my Christmas holidays for 2012 and will do the same for 2013 in a month. I am not expecting anything much to change in a hurry.

Its funny I was thinking about this doomsday type thinking concept a lot of people have nowdays. It is a shame to waste a good day with unnecessary worries of any kind. ( think I learned about that in the beatitudes).

 

[Elijah674]

I just booked my Christmas holidays for 2012 and will do the same for 2013 in a month. I am not expecting anything much to change in a hurry.

Its funny I was thinking about this doomsday type thinking concept a lot of people have nowdays. It is a shame to waste a good day with unnecessary worries of any kind. ( think I learned about that in the beatitudes).

Some 'ones' have Christians figured all wrong. My wife & I long for Christ to come & before that event He must 'sort out' the true sheep from the false.

At least that is the way that the two of us see it! 2 Thess. 2 documents it this way..

[1] Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

[2] That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

[3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

[4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
[5] Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

And a 'falling away first'?? Look around! It seems that Most 'c'hristians do not even want the Lord to come!

--Elijah

 

[smaller]

Some 'ones' have Christians figured all wrong. My wife & I long for Christ to come & before that event He must 'sort out' the true sheep from the false.

--Elijah

Yeah, you and your wife always and only do sheep works each and every time without fail.

I'm thinking God is going to find quite a few liars when He returns.

But hey, that's just me thinking about facts.

s

 

[MarkT]

I think we are.

Let's do some calculating. Jesus spoke of an evil and adulterous generation. This generation would not pass away before his coming. He described the generation as a generation of children calling to each other in the market place. He said the men of Nineveh would rise up and condemn this generation. My generation, the baby boomers, are an evil and adulterous generation. They are famous for their rebellious nature. Evil and adulterous describes the whole generation to a tee. The men of Nineveh, which is in Iraq, rose up and condemned this generation, and we are still at war with them. The Internet is a market place. Young and old use social sites like Facebook to call to one another. My generation began in 1945. Add 100 years as the upper end of the range when my generation will have passed away and you have 2045. But the Lord will come before my generation passes away.

Now to the lower end of the range. This would correspond to the beginning of the third millenium from the day Jesus was raised from the dead. It would not surprise me if our Lord returned on the 3rd day. I am also using the fact that a thousand years is as a day to our Lord. Now the exact date of the birth of our Lord can not be known but we know he was teaching in the temple at the age of 13. According to historians, Herod died in 2 B.C. So it is possible Jesus was 13 when he and his parents returned from Egypt. That's the earliest. He could have been one or two as well. He began his ministry when he was about 30. I don't know how long he preached but it seems to me it was not even a year. So if Jesus was 13 in 2 B.C. when Herod died, then it is possible he was crucified and raised as early as 30-13=17 17-2=15 A.D. Add 2000 years and you get an early guess - 2015. If Jesus was 1 or 2 at the time of Herods death, then 30-2=28. Add 2000 years and you get 2028.

So that`s the range - 2015-2045. Thirty years.

 

[spartakis]

We are not to set dates, but he gave us signs to know when its close, and prophecy for a reason. Look at the fact of Iran and Russia working together for Iran nukes. Bible teaches Russia will invade Israel. Also the fact Israel was reestablished in 1948. Study a little more, he is coming soon. Can I tell you a day or hour no.