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Bible Study WELCOME TO A DEEP LOOK AT GENESIS

TOG said:
If Jacob was not wrestling physically, but just praying, how did his hip get dislocated?

The TOG​
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Your question causes me to re-think this. Perhaps there is a combination of grasping the Angel and the Angel grasping Jacob and they move around each other, like wrestlers do, and just keep that up with neither gaining a submission hold, all the while, Jacob requesting his needs for the hour when he meets Esau. Yea, I can see more to this than just prayer. When the Angel (Jesus?) needed to depart, He touched Jacob's hip socket so it dislocated.
 
TOG said:
If Jacob was not wrestling physically, but just praying, how did his hip get dislocated?

The TOG​
Click to expand...
reba said:
I dont have clue....

Hos 12:4 Yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him in Bethel, and there he spake with us;
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Remember Jesus' parable about the unjust magistrate and how he succombed to the pesky woman because she kept asking ?

Luk 18:2-8 KJV Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man: (3) And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary. (4) And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man; (5) Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me. (6) And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith. (7) And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? (8) I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

I think Jacobs wrestling ( not letting go ) is a simile for faith.

Chopper said:
It is really sad when I think of how great a man of God Jacob was, and how much a deceiver he was. His name means "supplanter". Right from the start Jacob thru treachery, took Esau's place as the first born, that is "supplanting". Jacob was a deceiver, and a cheat, but still was a man used by God. Even during what is called the "Great Tribulation" it is called "Jacob's Trouble." Sooooo yep, he sent his family out in front so they would be between him and his brother. Jacob has always been a mystery to me.
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Yeah it looks dodgy some of the things Jacob did Chop. There may be a deeper meaning though that we don't see clearly in that Jacob ( as did Abraham and Isaac ) would do anything to cling to his birthright.
 
Day 79 4th of July Friday Genesis 33:1-11 THE REUNION.

Note: In finishing Chapter 32 and starting Chapter 33, I remembered Hosea 12:1-6 which discusses our topic here at Penuel. The word Penuel means "face of God" given by Jacob. Hosea gave a little commentary identifying this man as the Angel of the Lord, or a pre-incarnate appearance of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The whole matter of Jacob dividing up his people, give evidence to his opinion of who is more valuable to him, IMO. At any rate, the manner in which Jacob meets his brother, bowing seven times is a little over the top, I think. Jacob intentionally takes a servants position in Esau's presence which Esau is not really impressed because 20+ years have erased his anger and all he wants is to hug and kiss his twin brother. Of course his parents probably had something to do with that.

My wife has an identical twin. I know how close twins can be. They can be angry with each other, and given a little time, it passes. My wife's twin needs a kidney, and my wife Debi is going thru all the tests and preparations to give her sister Nancy a kidney, There was never a question in Debi's mind, Nancy needs a kidney, Debi's are healthy, so she gets one of Debi's, period! The transplant team of doctors will be ready for the operation somewhere between the last of August and the first of September.

V.4 Reveals an emotional meeting between these two men. All of Jacob's wives bow to Esau which customary in those parts, and I think to impress Esau, and he seemed delighted in their presence. Jacob explains the approach of the different droves and insists on Esau keeping his present.
 
Day 80 Saturday 7/5/14 Genesis 33:12-20 CANAAN ON THE HORIZON.

It does seem strange to me that Jacob refused every offer that Esau made to him. In Vs 12 & 13, Jacob refused for a logical reason because of the children's young age and nursing animals. Jacob would have to ease along the way, stopping way more than Esau and his men. Next, Esau suggests leaving some of his men with Jacob to help. Jacob refuses, probably because he didn't want to be responsible for them in case of an injury or worse. Jacob's relationship with his brother would probably fracture and bad feelings would ensue. So between insisting that Esau take the gift of animals, and refusing to accompany Esau on the trip back, and by the way, Jacob, for whatever reason, did not go to Seir, he ended up in Shechem. Jewish writers give all sorts of reasons why Jacob did not go directly to Seir. Some say that he might have visited his parents while they stayed in Succoth. There are at this point a lot of questions that I have. Why did Jacob not go to Seir as he told Esau he would (his word was his bond). Why not go to Beersheba where his folks lived, after all, he's been gone for over twenty years. Questions, questions, questions!

The Targum of Jonathan suggests that Jacob may have visited his brother in Seir, on his way to Canaan, but it's not for sure. Apparently, Jacob spent about a year or a little more at Succoth, perhaps to give the children and the nursing flocks time to mature before moving on to Canaan. Jacob could have gone out to visit his folks then. Scripture is just silent on these questions that I have.

Finally, Jacob and family arrive at Padan Aram. He "pitched his tent" it would be interesting to see what their tents looked like, anyone have a picture? Purchased some land, erected an altar for the Lord called El Elohe Israel, which meant "God, the God of Israel".
 
Chopper said:
It is really sad when I think of how great a man of God Jacob was, and how much a deceiver he was. His name means "supplanter". Right from the start Jacob thru treachery, took Esau's place as the first born, that is "supplanting". Jacob was a deceiver, and a cheat, but still was a man used by God. Even during what is called the "Great Tribulation" it is called "Jacob's Trouble." Sooooo yep, he sent his family out in front so they would be between him and his brother. Jacob has always been a mystery to me.
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Did Jacob have a choice? God's plan was laid out before the birth of twins..

Gen 25:23 And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.
 
reba said:
Did Jacob have a choice? God's plan was laid out before the birth of twins..

Gen 25:23 And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.
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What you have said is true my dear. I guess that's why it is such a mystery to me. BUT, then I look at my own life and wonder why Jesus still puts up with me.
 
TOG said:
If Jacob was not wrestling physically, but just praying, how did his hip get dislocated?

The TOG​
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I take that as literal, why would god then punish him for perserverance? I believe that Jacob challenged god foolishly and god let him go for some time then when he had enough touch his hip and then said what his new name would be.
 
jasonc said:
I take that as literal, why would god then punish him for perserverance? I believe that Jacob challenged god foolishly and god let him go for some time then when he had enough touch his hip and then said what his new name would be.
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maybe for the same reason Paul has thorn... :shrug
 
Sinthesis said:
Wrestle with God and be crippled, then receive a new name.
Persecute God and be blinded, then receive a new name.

Anybody think Jacob/Israel didn't pray three times for God to heal his hip?
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I'll tell you, I dislocated my right hip 5 times before they would replace it. It was absolutely impossible to walk on it. It was impossible to even move! Jacob moved with a limp the Scripture says. WELL! I don't know what kind of dislocation Jacob had but I can tell you it was not what I would call a dislocation! I have a BIG question about that.
 
Chopper said:
I'll tell you, I dislocated my right hip 5 times before they would replace it. It was absolutely impossible to walk on it. It was impossible to even move! Jacob moved with a limp the Scripture says. WELL! I don't know what kind of dislocation Jacob had but I can tell you it was not what I would call a dislocation! I have a BIG question about that.
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I recall something about a shrunken sinew, not a full blown dislocation.
 
Chopper said:
I'll tell you, I dislocated my right hip 5 times before they would replace it. It was absolutely impossible to walk on it. It was impossible to even move! Jacob moved with a limp the Scripture says. WELL! I don't know what kind of dislocation Jacob had but I can tell you it was not what I would call a dislocation! I have a BIG question about that.
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lol, I agree. It could not have been dislocated. Severely bruised and a tear kept me off my feet for 3 days. When I'm tired I still walk with a slight limp, enough so other people notice when I don't and that happened almost 30 yrs. ago.
 
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