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Bible Study WELCOME TO A DEEP LOOK AT GENESIS

reba said:
We are reading these stories as God 'wrote' them ... i wounder how we would have written them ? From what angle would we have seen them.

How would have CNN or Fox covered these events? Which makes me then wonder about how the 'news' stories of today look in the eyes of God.
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That's an interesting question Reba. God does not use His omniscience to record anything but what is happening at the present, as you said, "as God wrote them." Me, on the other hand would have added the presence of 60,000 angels and told Jacob not to sweat it.

Oh my, CNN and FOX.... CNN would have told the story depicting Jacob as the bad guy and Laban and Esau as the good guys that nasty old Jacob was taking terrible advantage of them. FOX would have told the truth, they are on God's side.
 
Chopper said:
That's an interesting question Reba. God does not use His omniscience to record anything but what is happening at the present, as you said, "as God wrote them." Me, on the other hand would have added the presence of 60,000 angels and told Jacob not to sweat it.

Oh my, CNN and FOX.... CNN would have told the story depicting Jacob as the bad guy and Laban and Esau as the good guys that nasty old Jacob was taking terrible advantage of them. FOX would have told the truth, they are on God's side.
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:D I think some political opponents would think otherwise.
 
Day 76 Tuesday 7/1/14 Genesis 32:9-12 WHEN IN DOUBT, PRAY.

I find it most interesting the difference in our approach to Almighty God in prayer or even just referring to Him, as compared with the Old Testament Saints. V.9 has Jacob praying "O God of my father Abraham and God of my father Isaac." See what I mean? Jacob prays to the God of Abraham. A long time ago, a preacher actually said that if you pray to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, you will get your answer quicker than if you pray to your God. Of course, that might be true for that preacher :rofl2 :hysterical Later on the Saints replied "God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob." It seemed not as personal as it does in the New Testament. Old Testament Saints were referring to YHWH as the God of their forefathers. Compared with our personal relationship with our "Heavenly Father" O.T. Saints, it seems to me, were not that intimate. Jacob reminds himself of what the God of his father Isaac said to "me". Return to your Country....that I may do you good. Now it seems to me that if Jacob had taken that statement from "HIS" God as a promise to him, he wouldn't be afraid of his brother Esau. After all, God told Jacob that he would "do you good", that doesn't seem to me as letting Esau beat up Jacob and his family.

Now, in the N.T. God is our "Father." The Blood of Jesus has been shed (past tense). The Lamb of God has been sacrificed. God's relationship with us in the New Covenant places us, it seems to me, closer to YHWH, instead of being the God of Abraham, which He is, is our Father, Abba Father, praise His Name!
 
Chopper said:
Day 76 Tuesday 7/1/14 Genesis 32:9-12 WHEN IN DOUBT, PRAY.

I find it most interesting the difference in our approach to Almighty God in prayer or even just referring to Him, as compared with the Old Testament Saints. A long time ago, a preacher actually said that if you pray to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, you will get your answer quicker than if you pray to your God.
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I suspect those bestowing elaborate titles may have had more time to think out their problem. In Mat 14:30 Peter got to the heart of the matter: Lord, save me.
 
Day 77 Wednesday 7/2/14 Genesis 32:13-21 THE GIFT.

On the surface, it looks like Jacob, out of a demonstration of goodwill, is sending a wonderful present to Esau. To me, it looks Jacob is trying to buy off Esau's anger with such a large gift. My observation of V.13 is, Jacob took a present "from what he had with him." My goodness, Jacob must have had thousands of animals! I'm sure that there is a message in how Jacob selected the female and male animals. There seemed to be more female goats, ewes, milking camels, cows and donkeys. Other than supplying the male species for reproduction, I don't know why the different numbers.

There is a difference of opinion between Jewish writers as how many "droves" there were, some say there were three droves and others say five. Which ever there were, Jacob sent them out and he stayed in the camp that night.
 
Chopper said:
Day 77 Wednesday 7/2/14 Genesis 32:13-21 THE GIFT.

On the surface, it looks like Jacob, out of a demonstration of goodwill, is sending a wonderful present to Esau. To me, it looks Jacob is trying to buy off Esau's anger with such a large gift. My observation of V.13 is, Jacob took a present "from what he had with him." My goodness, Jacob must have had thousands of animals! I'm sure that there is a message in how Jacob selected the female and male animals. There seemed to be more female goats, ewes, milking camels, cows and donkeys. Other than supplying the male species for reproduction, I don't know why the different numbers.

There is a difference of opinion between Jewish writers as how many "droves" there were, some say there were three droves and others say five. Which ever there were, Jacob sent them out and he stayed in the camp that night.
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Well being a farmer I can answer that question with some confidence. One bull can cover many cows, producing many babies making the gift much more valuable. 20 cows + 1 bull = 20 calves. 10 cows + 10 bulls = 10 calves. It would take twice as long time to build up a herd that second way.
Kinda like Jacob with 4 women building his family. :wink
 
Deborah13 said:
Well being a farmer I can answer that question with some confidence. One bull can cover many cows, producing many babies making the gift much more valuable. 20 cows + 1 bull = 20 calves. 10 cows + 10 bulls = 10 calves. It would take twice as long time to build up a herd that second way.
Kinda like Jacob with 4 women building his family. :wink
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I've never heard of Jacob's family likened to a herd of cows before :D
 
Day 78 Thursday 7/3/14 Genesis 32:22-32 HIP SURGERY.

This portion of Scripture is an old head scratch-er :confused. V.22 has Jacob escorting his wives and children and the rest of his camp across the river Jabbok at a ford in the river. He apparently returned back to the other side to spend some serious time in prayer with God. After all, he and his wives and children are going into what possibly could be bloodshed because the last knowledge that he had when he left was Esau wanted to kill him.

Now we come to the big question, who was Jacob wrestling with? Hosea 12:3,4 gives us a glimpse,
Hos 12:3 He took his brother by the heel in the womb, and by his strength he had power with God:
Hos 12:4 Yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him.

V.24 says "a man" wrestled with Jacob, so lets first identify the man
and then look at the word wrestled. The man some say was Gabriel the angel of God. Others say it is a theophany (a preincarnate appearance of Jesus Christ). The term wrestled meant intense prayer IMO. I find it incomprehensible that a very strong man such as Jacob was, could prevail over against Almighty God in a physical contest. But, prayer? The Gospel account of a woman repeatedly asking the judge in Luke 18:1-7, is sort of what I'm thinking.
Luk 18:1 And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint;
Luk 18:2 Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man:
Luk 18:3 And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary.
Luk 18:4 And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man;
Luk 18:5 Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.
Luk 18:6 And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith.
Luk 18:7 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?

This is what I believe this is all about, intense prayer is all about an urgent laying hold of God which might include fasting for an answer. I believe that our Heavenly Father loves these times of intense prayer/fellowship with Him.

There is a difference of opinion in V.28 KJV "For as a prince hast thou power with God and with men." NKJV "For you have struggled with God and with men." It is a mystery to me how the KJV came up with their translation of that verse. In checking the Hebrew, it does not mention a prince.

This Chapter ends with Jacob/Israel, limping along....Before I had my right hip replaced, it dislocated five times. OUCH! The pain was beyond explanation. A 20 on the pain scale of 1 to 10.:eekMorphine, ambulance, and the ER is the only fix.
 
Remembering Sunday school coloring the picture of Jacob wrestling... something in me then knew.. it was not "wresting" cause God word win quickly. like snap! I agree Chop it was more like prayer wrestling... Or maybe God was pulling Jacob's leg.... :lol

How often when we must face a situation we don't want too do we spend time in prayer arguing with God... ever bargain with God?

After all, he and his wives and children are going into what possibly could be bloodshed because the last knowledge that he had when he left was Esau wanted to kill him.
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So i guess you think Jacob sent his family out in front of him to soften Esau?
 
I dont have clue....

Hos 12:4 Yea, he had power over the angel, and prevailed: he wept, and made supplication unto him: he found him in Bethel, and there he spake with us;
 
reba said:
Remembering Sunday school coloring the picture of Jacob wrestling... something in me then knew.. it was not "wresting" cause God word win quickly. like snap! I agree Chop it was more like prayer wrestling... Or maybe God was pulling Jacob's leg.... :lol

How often when we must face a situation we don't want too do we spend time in prayer arguing with God... ever bargain with God?


So i guess you think Jacob sent his family out in front of him to soften Esau?
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It is really sad when I think of how great a man of God Jacob was, and how much a deceiver he was. His name means "supplanter". Right from the start Jacob thru treachery, took Esau's place as the first born, that is "supplanting". Jacob was a deceiver, and a cheat, but still was a man used by God. Even during what is called the "Great Tribulation" it is called "Jacob's Trouble." Sooooo yep, he sent his family out in front so they would be between him and his brother. Jacob has always been a mystery to me.
 
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