Bible Study WELCOME TO AN IN DEPTH STUDY OF MATTHEW'S GOSPEL.

[eddif]

I Corinthians 9:9
For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

While I am involved with symbolism, I always must remember where the priorities lie.

eddif

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

And so would have Rollo.

Lot of stuff being talked about here.
Is anything in the book of Matthew being talked about?

 

[eddif]

Lot of stuff being talked about here.
Is anything in the book of Matthew being talked about?

Chopper asked for 490 nails on the subject at hand.

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[Rollo Tamasi]

Chopper asked for 490 nails on the subject at hand.

eddif

Okay, I'll just listen to you then.
I always have.

 

[eddif]

I am reading all these posts. If 490 forgiven times appear for one person, then my little list of ways to forgive would run out pretty early. I brought up heavens way to forgive in case we could add a few more examples. Examples where a record of the flesh existed, but overcome with the book of life in Christ Jesus. This is more complex than Mississippi folks normally handle.

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[Jethro Bodine]

Examples where a record of the flesh existed, but overcome with the book of life in Christ Jesus.

Generally speaking, I don't think the loss of rewards in 1 Corinthians 3:5-16 NASB is the equivalent of sin. I mean in Paul's case, not in the case of false teachers who fail to add people to the kingdom of God because their doctrine is incapable of doing that. Their sin is leading people astray through false doctrine that can't prepare them for the coming Judgment of Fire.

 

[eddif]

Philippians 3:9 KJV
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

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[Jethro Bodine]

Philippians 3:9 KJV
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

eddif

I've lost the train of thought here. Explain.

 

[eddif]

I've lost the train of thought here. Explain.

You are looking at rewards.

I am looking at judgement throne.

Either of us may be off slightly.

I am still with the idea in post 1548. To me it is a continuous idea. That at judgement there is a weighing and final judgement of the hidden intent of us. Part of this forgiveness issue is reserved for the one that sees inside me.

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[ezrider]

The connection with the good samaritan is simple:
Who is your neighbor? EVERYONE. The whole world is our neighbor.
The good samaritan is used to show that everyone is our neighbor, even people we don't like. The Samaritans were hated by both Galilee and Judah. Jesus was teaching them not to hate the Samaritans.

Zechariah 3:8-10
Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou,
and thy fellows that sit before thee:
for they are men wondered at:
for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the Branch.
For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua;
upon one stone shall be seven eyes:
behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the Lord of hosts,
and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.
In that day, saith the Lord of hosts,
shall ye call every man his neighbour
under the vine and under the fig tree.

 

[ezrider]

According to JESUS, not me, if a brother sins against you and doesn't acknowledge that sin and make amends when confronted with that sin you are to consider them an unbeliever. He's hardly talking about doctrinal differences. He's talking about when someone sins against you....perhaps in a doctrinal discussion. I actually pass judgement all the time in these forums in our discussions. I can tell who has the peace of God in them and who does not. Not by their doctrine, but by how they conduct themselves when there are differences or offenses.

Makes no difference. Whether it be a 'brother' in the church, or a neighbor, if they refuse to acknowledge their sin I am to consider them an unbeliever.

At what point do you consider them an unbeliever because they refuse to acknowledge their sin? If someone has sinned a sin against you 490 times, and asked forgiveness 490 times, do you really think they have truly acknowledge their sin so that they won't offend you anymore? Or just because they only acknowledge their sin but do nothing to change their own nature or change their behavior so that they don't offend you anymore, is that why you would count them as an unbeliever?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

At what point do you consider them an unbeliever because they refuse to acknowledge their sin?

At what point? When they don't acknowledge their sin against you.

If someone has sinned the sin against you 490 times, and asked forgiveness a 490 times, do you really think they have truly acknowledge their sin so that they won't offend you anymore?

No. What matters is they acknowledged their sin and asked forgiveness. What happens tomorrow is for tomorrow to worry about.

Or just because they only acknowledge their sin but do nothing to change their own nature or change their behavior so that they don't offend you anymore, is that why you would count them as an unbeliever?

No, I consider the person who can't/won't acknowledge their sin against me to the unbeliever 'cause that's what Jesus said to do. Jesus did not put the qualification on them that they have to never offend again in order for me to receive them as a believer. The fact that he says to forgive over and over and over and over again should dismiss any suggestion of that.

 

[Hospes]

No, I consider the person who can't/won't acknowledge their sin against me to the unbeliever 'cause that's what Jesus said to do.

Maybe using the word "consider" is a slip of your pen, but just in case it was not...

I am assuming you are referring to the verse Matthew 18:17 regarding Jesus explaining how to treat a unrepentant person who undergoes church discipline. (Please let me know if I am wrong.) Jesus said "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector." (Matthew 18:17 ESV) I think Jesus is not telling us to consider them an unbeliever, but to treat them as an unbeliever. This is an important distinction, don't you think?

 

[Malachi]

This is more complex than Mississippi folks normally handle.

When things get too complicated, it means that there is a problem. Simplicity is always the key to every issue.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I am assuming you are referring to the verse Matthew 18:17 regarding Jesus explaining how to treat a unrepentant person who undergoes church discipline.

Yes, I am referring to Matthew 18:17 NASB.

I think Jesus is not telling us to consider them an unbeliever, but to treat them as an unbeliever.

Consider/ treat....same thing in my understanding of what Jesus is saying. If someone is going to act like an unbeliever then treat them like one. Whether or not they really are a believer does not change how I treat them. So, in either case, insofar as how I treat them, I consider them an unbeliever.

Of course, even believers can be stubborn and slow to acknowledge their sin so I would not automatically decide they are not a believer for not being able to acknowledge their sin against me. But as I say, whether or not they really are a believer has no bearing on how I am to treat them.

 

[Chopper]

February 28 2016 Matthew 18:23 - 35 A Wicked Example Of Forgiveness.

Matthew 18:23 "Therefore the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his servants.
18:24 When he began to settle, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents.
18:25 And since he could not pay, his master ordered him to be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and payment to be made.
18:26 So the servant fell on his knees, imploring him, 'Have patience with me, and I will pay you everything.'
18:27 And out of pity for him, the master of that servant released him and forgave him the debt.
18:28 But when that same servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii, and seizing him, he began to choke him, saying, 'Pay what you owe.'
18:29 So his fellow servant fell down and pleaded with him, 'Have patience with me, and I will pay you.'
18:30 He refused and went and put him in prison until he should pay the debt.
18:31 When his fellow servants saw what had taken place, they were greatly distressed, and they went and reported to their master all that had taken place.
18:32 Then his master summoned him and said to him, 'You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.
18:33 And should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you?'
18:34 And in anger his master delivered him to the jailers, until he should pay all his debt.
18:35 So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart."

Wow, what an example!! Notice please Verse 35. Jesus says that we must forgive from our hearts. Whenever I think of forgiveness, especially in extremely trying circumstances, it seems impossible to forgive. Rape, child molestation, cases of terrible abuse or other extreme acts of violence are examples of circumstances that really try our resolve to forgive a monster called a human.

Whenever I've been asked "how can I forgive and forget?" My answer has been, we have to forgive and forget how God does it. He is our Example....
Isaiah 43:25 "I, I am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Notice that God says He will cancel our sins "for My own sake". That's the secret to forgiving someone who has hurt us. If we hold that offense in our thoughts, it will only eat at us like a cancer. So, for our own sake and spiritual health, we must let it go.

You say, "How in the world can I forget what this person did"?....
Psalm 103:12 "as far as the east is from the west, so far does he remove our transgressions from us." In these two verses of Scripture we have two ideas. One, God says that He will not remember our sins. This means, when God thinks of me, He will not drag up the sins that He has forgiven me of and judge me. Even if I commit the same sin, with God, it's the first time....Two, our sins, God says, He puts them as far as the East is from the West. This is just saying that they are so far away from Him that they are simply gone!

So, when I forgive someone who has sinned against me, I must do what God does. When I think of that person, I must not think of his sin against me. If someone steals from me, he is a thief. He comes and asks forgiveness, I grant him forgiveness and the next time I see him or think of him, I can't recall him being a thief. That's forgive and forget.

 

[eddif]

Matthew 18:32
Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:

There seems to still be memory of the history of transgression.

While this comment might not fit the way some think, I see a short comment might be ok.

There are several legal system rules that seem to be based on bible principles.
Expungement
Governors pardon

My examples may not be the best, but the record of crime in one case is not forgotten.

We never forget God's benefits.

The law makes us aware of sin (lawful use ?)
Jesus bore the penalty for our sins (forgiveness)
Holy Spirit provides power to witness (empowerment)

Law written on gentile hearts?

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[Jethro Bodine]

There seems to still be memory of the history of transgression.

That's what I see too, but only when the one forgiven did not take the grace he had been given and extend it to those who were in debt to him. The debt was reinstated when the person who received the king's forgiveness did not treat other people the way the king treated him. I honestly don't see how this passage supports the idea that once you are forgiven by the king you remain forgiven by God no matter what you do from that point onward.

Holy Spirit provides power to witness (empowerment)

But more importantly, Holy Spirit provides power to live righteously. In other words, the Holy Spirit gives us power to uphold the righteousness of the law, not trample it underfoot.

Law written on gentile hearts?

....and Jewish hearts.
The ministry of the Holy Spirit is for all flesh, including the Jews. In fact, the distinction disappears in Christ.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I believe we 'forget' people's sins against us in that we don't hold them against that person. But I am learning, after 30 years as a Christian, that if you do that (not hold grudges), you do begin to literally forget the offenses of others. That's part of what it means to live in the fullness of life that Christ died to give us.

If you let things go, you don't get ate up with the resentment of what others have done to you. In place of resentment God gives joy and peace and life. We get to enjoy the fruit of the Spirit when, and only when, we discard the things of the flesh. You can't have resentment and unforgiveness and the joy of the Lord at the same time. 'Taint gonna happen. Each of us has to make up our mind if we're going to enter into the abundance of the promises of God through obedience, or if we're going to languish outside of those promises in the desert because of our disobedience.

 

[Hospes]

There seems to still be memory of the history of transgression.

Due to God being omniscient, I do not think God can have a lack of memory. The fact we have a memory of our own sin means God is not clueless of it. The forgetfulness or not-remembering God has in regards to my sin means at the very least he will release me of the debt I owe him due to my sin against him. That alone is more than I am due.