Bible Study WELCOME TO AN IN DEPTH STUDY OF MATTHEW'S GOSPEL.

[GodsGrace]

We are the unmerited receivers of Forgiveness, Grace and Mercy in Christ because we are sinners.

Not forgiving others of ALL their sins does however have Divine repercussions both in this life and the next.

Okay. I just hope you mean ALL sins committed against US personally.

W

 

[smaller]

Okay. I just hope you mean ALL sins committed against US personally.

W

It works both ways from Gods End.

Those who do not practice this, as Christ did:

2 Corinthians 5:19
19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

have already been put under Divine Judgment called "hypocrisy," in this present life.

We might do ourselves well to remember this:

Romans 5:10
For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!

 

[eddif]

M

You have demonstrated a lean to the inner sights on these matters, so I'll set a post on the subject of forgiveness and UNforgiveness with you to consider.

What do we make of this?

Matt. 7:
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

I'll use an example here of the men who nailed Jesus to His Cross. Jesus forgave these men, even in the midst of them participating in His Killing.

Does that mean Jesus left off judgments? Heavens NO!

Let's look at these men from the eyes, the TWO EYES of scripture.

Both forgiveness AND Divine Judgment without mercy are available to be had IF we perceive the conditions of the men. How so? Observe the inner condition of the spiritually blinded. They are blinded in mind by the "god of this world." 2 Cor. 4:4. They are under the power of darkness, the power of Satan. Acts 26:18.

Do we see just the men in this? No! We see the blinded, in darkness, who know not what they do, AND we see the power of darkness, of Satan, who has his pawns and moves them in the flesh as he so performs.

There is forgiveness and Gods Mercy. There is also Divine Judgment without mercy. Both available to be had in a SINGLE PACKAGE.

One we are not to judge lest we ourselves fall under judgment. The other we are entirely FREE to judge without mercy.

Both sides of the equation can be fulfilled IF we judge properly.

This "form" of judgment will not be seen by anyone under the power of darkness. They can not see it until they perceive their own present condition in the flesh.

In Matt. 7:5 this condition is identified by Jesus as hypocrisy. Unless and until we JUDGE OURSELVES accurately, we will NEVER be able to see or perceive the condition of the other people.

Believers who are hypocrites are already under Divine Adverse Judgment, without Mercy.

Nevertheless the believer will go free of that working of the adversary in their own flesh.

Hope peeling the onion of scripture doesn't make too many people cry.

Do you use James 4:12
There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

To understand:
Romans 2:1
Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

Which is the darkness you describe.

Romans 1:32
Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

The folks know they have chosen not to obey the judgements of God and establish their own judgements.

If I agree with the judgements of God, then it is Him judging.
If I know Gods judgements then it is me judging (full well knowing that I am bucking God and supporting my sin and the sins of others). One can ignore God and do what he wishes (persons own thoughts).

The original point (back about three posts) is that rembering a persons sin does not stop the ability of forgiving. The master had forgiven still knowing the whole story. We do not have to expunge the memory, for the governor can pardon (still based on believing laws can be written in men's hearts without the OT / OC being part of their life). Being without the law.

Chopper and I may be saying the same thing from a little different viewpoint. I do not have to forget the wrong done, but I do have to not meditate on that wrong day and night. Rembering bugs some folks. Forgiving while rembering is not a problem for some.

Got to love in debth. No chance to skim Matthew.

eddif

 

[Chopper]

Hi Chopper,
Your standards are very high! It makes me doubt I've really forgiven people because you say I've forgiven them only if I've forgotten the actual act and hurt it caused at the time.
God can certainly forget sin.
Isaiah 43.25
Hebrews 8:12

I thought of the final judgement, but at the Judgment Seat only believer's works are judged for the purpose of rewards.
At the Great White Throne Judgement only non-believers are judged.
So, even here, the believer's sins are not remembered - only the non-repentant person's sins are remembered and judged.

Forgiveness is a matter of the will. I WILL to forgive a person. Since you want to forgive them, after a while the emotion that accompanies the hurt that may have been caused will dissipate; however, if the hurt is deep enough, the act will most probably not be forgotten. But the emotion that was present at the time of the act, will be gone.

What say you?

Wondering

There is always some confusion to forgetting what someone did in sinning against us. First of all, I'm not advocating that there is no forgiveness if we can't forget. I'm not saying that at all! God's standard in forgetting sins is He remembers them no more. Does that mean that He has a bad memory? NO!

What I'm saying is that God does not bring up that sin to recall it ever. What I forgive, I must not, when I see the person who sinned against me, or even think about that person, must make every attempt Not to let my feelings dictate the dislike for that person in my mind. We can pray for their true Salvation.

 

[Hospes]

If we see how sin envelopes all of us and if we can perceive how easy it is to sin, then it will be far easier to forgive others.

Agreed! One of the freedoms of growing in my faith that Jesus' work on the Cross is sufficient to cancel my debt of sin is the freedom to unflinchingly look at the depth of my own depravity and the righteous wrath of God my debt deserves. Not only does understanding it's magnitude make it easier for me forgive, but it makes my appreciation and gratitude to my Lord grow. I may appreciate a bit being rescued from a paper cut, but my appreciation is many magnitudes greater if I see I have been rescued from a tree shredder.

 

[Chopper]

M
Do you use James 4:12
There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

To understand:
Romans 2:1
Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

Which is the darkness you describe.

Romans 1:32
Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

The folks know they have chosen not to obey the judgements of God and establish their own judgements.

If I agree with the judgements of God, then it is Him judging.
If I know Gods judgements then it is me judging (full well knowing that I am bucking God and supporting my sin and the sins of others). One can ignore God and do what he wishes (persons own thoughts).

The original point (back about three posts) is that rembering a persons sin does not stop the ability of forgiving. The master had forgiven still knowing the whole story. We do not have to expunge the memory, for the governor can pardon (still based on believing laws can be written in men's hearts without the OT / OC being part of their life). Being without the law.

Chopper and I may be saying the same thing from a little different viewpoint. I do not have to forget the wrong done, but I do have to not meditate on that wrong day and night. Rembering bugs some folks. Forgiving while rembering is not a problem for some.

Got to love in debth. No chance to skim Matthew.

eddif

Very good my friend. I believe that we are saying the same thing. I wish that I could explain what's in my heart as eloquently as you. As I consider God's way of forgiving, and judging, boy eddif, these two areas of our mind's actions is perhaps the most difficult to reckon with. When Jesus forgave the people who murdered Him, that's the hallmark of God's mercy? What would you call it?

When I've tried to explain the forgetting what someone has done against us, I've done a poor explanation of what's in my mind/heart. I'm looking at three passages of Scripture. One from Isaiah, Jeremiah and Hebrews which says the same.

Isaiah 43:25 "I, I am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake, and I will not remember your sins."

Jeremiah 31:34 "And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

Hebrews 8:12 "For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more."

It's this word "remember" that some folk don't understand. Our God does not have a bad memory. He is the Judge of all things. He has set a standard for forgiveness and it's tough for us to follow it because of our emotions of flesh. Reba has stated a bad situation. Someone who is a pervert who abuses young children as the difficulty of forgiving. It sure is one of the worst examples for sure.

When I think of God remembering a sin no more, it has to be that within His legal system of forgiveness, He will not remember or go back to the forgiven sin and bring it forward to accuse that person of the forgiven sin. I had a so called Christian couple that let me and, at that time my dying Wife, rent their farmhouse. They took advantage of us in many ways and made us move out before the lease was up putting my sick Wife and I in an almost impossible situation.

In my heart I forgave them. The problem was, every time I remembered them, it upset me terribly. I knew I had to get over the resentment because they were going their merry way while I was miserable. The only one that was hurting was me. I then went back to these Scripture passages that told of how God forgives. I had to force myself to let it go. I had forgiven them, now I must forget the pain. How? I knew that the God that I serve will balance the sin book in the end.

My way out of the hurt from this couple was to....
Luke 6:28 "bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you."
So when ever I thought of the couple, I prayed for them and actually prayed for God to bless them. I believe that when I asked God to bless them, most of the hostility left my heart.

As far as judging others, I'm very cautious. My main concern is that I probably don't have all the facts. I am warned in....
1Corinthians 4:5 "Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive his commendation from God."

So, there you go. I hope this helps explain forgiveness and not remembering sins against us.

 

[smaller]

In addressing Reba's observation, I might look upon any sinner, the child molester for example, and see that in their flesh there is more than just them. This beds the ground for both forgiveness AND adverse judgments, which I spoke to earlier from the scriptures.

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

In this fact of scripture we might ascertain that there is the person, and there is the "god of this world" who has imposed his will upon the captive of sin. Not one bit different than the shape that we were in prior to belief:

Ephesians 2:
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Paul, adroitly, by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit uses the term "ye" meaning "more than one" in the above. He is not speaking of "ye" as the collective of unbelievers, but as the "ye" being YOU and I and the spirit of disobedience.

Paul show this fact many times in many ways, according to those who are UNDER the power of darkness.

Acts 26:18
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

This darkness is the power of Satan that is upon all unbelievers. Even after we believe, we are put in a position of DOMINATION over that spirit of disobedience, but we do not rid ourselves of it in the flesh. We have had the tables TURNED in our behalves.

So, what might we see in these things? That both forgiveness and NO forgiveness whatsoever can be had, NOT by looking at the individual culprit in the external senses, but looking within, as the Spirit Commands us to do and seeing what is going on on the inside of the box.

When we see as The Spirit sees, we will see MORE than one party.

Jesus looked upon a single man, and found therein a LEGION of demons. One example of many such in the scriptures. He freed the man,the CAPTIVE, and simultaneously condemned the devils in that man's flesh.

THEN the man was in his "right" mind.

We can wander about quite aimlessly in the scriptures, never seeing the "internal reality" and that is why the matters can be so confusing, at times.

It is entirely possible to abide in both aspects of these matters. Forgiveness and non-forgiveness when we see the "whole."

Where we see the term "whole world" in the scriptures, it speaks to the world we see with our eyes, and the world of evil wickedness that is superimposed upon the internal.

We, as believers, live in a divided world. We have been "divided" from our own internal enemy. Our world is RIGHT SIDE UP, after belief. Satan is put at our own feet. In the whole world, the world of unbelievers, the construct is the other way around.

We are not requested by God in Christ to leave off judgments. Harsh judgments. But it is important to get the whole picture in these matters.

For example, when I witness to unbelievers about Christ, I am VERY cognizant that there is more than just the person, listening. I also am aware of my adversary who has blinded their mind and who will RESIST being revealed by the Light of the Gospel.

God HONORS a truthful witness. Capture one to Christ, condemn the other. In that order.

Reasoning with the wicked spirits to behave is utterly futile.

 

[smaller]

1 Corinthians 6:3
Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

The angels are in reference are the wicked/evil sort.

 

[GodsGrace]

Agreed! One of the freedoms of growing in my faith that Jesus' work on the Cross is sufficient to cancel my debt of sin is the freedom to unflinchingly look at the depth of my own depravity and the righteous wrath of God my debt deserves. Not only does understanding it's magnitude make it easier for me forgive, but it makes my appreciation and gratitude to my Lord grow. I may appreciate a bit being rescued from a paper cut, but my appreciation is many magnitudes greater if I see I have been rescued from a tree shredder.

Hospes,
Congrats on your 100th post!
A paper cut vs a tree shredder.
Very good.
You have a way with words...

W

 

[Chopper]

March 3rd 2016 Matthew 19:1-12 Divorce.

Matthew 19:3 And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, "Is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause?"
19:4 He answered, "Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female,
19:5 and said, 'Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'?
19:6 So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate."
19:7 They said to him, "Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?"
19:8 He said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.
19:9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery."
19:10 The disciples said to him, "If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is better not to marry."
19:11 But he said to them, "Not everyone can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given.
19:12 For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it."

We have before us a very controversial subject, Divorce. We can stop right here and see that the only authorized reason for divorce from the lips of Jesus is, sexual immorality. That's basically what my position has always been. I do recognize that in the teachings of the Apostle Paul, there are some area's that need to be explored, such as....
1Corinthians 7:15 "But if the unbelieving partner separates, let it be so. In such cases the brother or sister is not enslaved. God has called you to peace."

The preceding verse deals with the married couple that one is an unbeliever. It appears that the word "bondage" is crucial here for a correct interpretation. The word bondage is to enslave. In the case of the unbelieving partner leaving the marriage by means of a divorce, the partner who is a Christian is released from the law of marriage. The Christian partner is not enslaved to that marriage by divorce and is free to remarry, only to another Christian.

Now, the problem comes when both partners are Christian. They must not divorce! If they encounter such conflict that divorce or separation is considered, they should seek counseling and restore the marriage bond. If, the Christian couples divorce, they must not remarry someone else until one of the partners dies, then they are free to remarry, only in the Lord.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If, the Christian couples divorce, they must not remarry someone else until one of the partners dies

The problem comes in when the divorcing 'Christian' spouse actually uses this as the 'okay' to divorce their spouse. The thinking being it's okay to divorce as long as they remain single. But the problem is, Jesus said divorce is wrong on the basis of causing the other person to commit adultery. The 'Christian' who divorces and thinks it's okay because they are going to remain single (yeah, right) has forgotten that doing that causes the other person to commit adultery if and when that other person remarries.

 

[Hospes]

We live in a time when marriage is viewed to have minuscule worth; little wonder divorce is so prevalent.

I believe if Christians viewed marriage more as God does, divorce would be less of an issue. Jesus says something profound about marriage in this passage: God himself joins people together in marriage. This is HUGE! We typically think the bride and groom are the principle agents in a marriage, and here Jesus is saying God is. If a person lets that truth sink in, it stirs up all types of insights and hard questions. And points to why divorce is so loathsome to God.

The passage is about marriage every bit as much as it is about divorce.

 

[Chopper]

The problem comes in when the divorcing 'Christian' spouse actually uses this as the 'okay' to divorce their spouse. The thinking being it's okay to divorce as long as they remain single. But the problem is, Jesus said divorce is wrong on the basis of causing the other person to commit adultery. The 'Christian' who divorces and thinks it's okay because they are going to remain single (yeah, right) has forgotten that doing that causes the other person to commit adultery if and when that other person remarries.

This is very true my friend. Sometimes, one or the other Christian will have sex with someone else just to break up the marriage. God is not fooled by the stupid plans of people playing Christianity. I've been married twice. My first Wife died of Cancer. My present Wife and I have had a tough go of it because of previous baggage. Neither of us have ever contemplated divorce. Why? Because divorce for a Christian IS NOT AN OPTION, period!!

 

[eddif]

Ephesians 5:31
For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

The Matthew passage is about physical marriage, but hidden in marriage is the first shadowing of the relationship with Christ and the church (bride). It is however a great mystery. Talking about it will leave a difference of opinion, and this short comment is not intended to start an in debth study of Ephesians / marriage symbolism.

Preventing separation from Christ (divorce) is a topic for reflection.


eddif

 

[reba]

YUPPERS eddif ... there is much to understand about God view of marriage...

 

[Chopper]

I'm with Reba, YUPPERS!! Since Jesus says that He will never leave us or forsake us, the "us" also means His Church. If Jesus will never abandon His Church, why would I ever think of abandoning my Wife. I have a real problem with folk who claim to be Christians, yet don't give it that much thought, IMO, to being unfaithful to their spouse. Would Jesus ever be unfaithful to His Church?

Reba, Eddif, what is wrong with Christians today? I'm so sad that in just 50 years, I've witnessed a huge change in the dedication to holiness & righteousness in our churches and marriages. My heart breaks at what I see happening in American churches as a whole. Thank God for the small Churches that have a Pastor who's not in it for fame and fortune. He's "in it" because he has the call on his life to be a Shepherd of God's flock.

 

[smaller]

Divorce has been a long long problem. It's not something that is recent.

We should, in Bible studies, be able to come to some determinations about law as it relates to divorce. When God says, in the law, whatever law, not to do something, then the carnal or sin nature of man resists that law. This particular resistance that often results in divorce starts with the law against lust. How does that operate?

Jesus tells us clearly "how" adultery, which is assuredly connected to divorce, starts. It starts first with sin thoughts of adultery. Then "words" of adultery and ultimately with the deed, and the after effect is divorce. Matt. 5:28.

We can take this same principle of the law and apply it to any particular societal ills or sins that we see in the world. The world of flesh men, carnal minded, non legal, not even possible to be legal people, and see that it operates through the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life. 1 John 2:16 speaks directly to the 'path of darkness' upon which sin sprouts, takes root, and eventually blossoms the dead end results. No flesh is immune from this working. Not even the flesh of believers.

The path to sin is also correlated to first sin thought, then sin word, and eventually the full on deed. But the impetus, the kernal of sin starts in the realm of evil thoughts. Just as Jesus pinpoints for us in:

Matt. 15:19-20 and Mark 7:21-23

People can claim their innocence in not divorcing, but the reality is that more than likely every last married person has lusted as a result of sin indwelling the flesh, evil present with them. They may appear "legal" on the outside, but nobody really is legal in the flesh, regardless. Some keep it in check. That's all that can be said about it. But evil is an intimate part of every person's internal conscience. God has made us this way, setting before us, INSIDE, this natural knowledge. Believers can claim they are only good, but in that claim they only prove the evil within them made them LIE.

Science, in birth control, has fostered the bed of adultery and baby killing, adding even more fuel to the fire of divorce. And this results in entire societies being ripped to shreds. But even these works existed in the O.T. as shown when people sacrificed their children by fire to the god, Molech. A brass bull standing on mans feet, holding a laver which would be heated red hot, and the baby tossed in, alive, burned for sacrifice. Just as utterly vile, if not moreso, than abortion.

 

[Malachi]

If Jesus will never abandon His Church, why would I ever think of abandoning my Wife.

The problem is that most Christians are never shown from Scripture that Christian marriage is a type of the Marriage of the Lamb (as it was intended to be). Indeed the first marriage on earth clearly revealed that.
And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. (Gen 2:22-24).

For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. (Eph 5:31,32).

 

[reba]

yup

 

[eddif]

I wonder at the greater:
Adam lost a rib, but Jesus lost his blood and life for us (the one man - Jew and Gentile both)

Adam was asleep, but Jesus was awake in great agony. Jesus gave his life.

Adam got a helper, but Jesus got someone to empower to work as a witness, while he returned to be with the Father.

There are many differences.

eddif