[_ Old Earth _] Were Dinosaurs a deception from Satan to make the world look older ?

[Ace1234]

Regarding the earths age, we for a fact have detailed history of other tribes that lived up to 75,000 years ago.

All through known history tribes all over the world had their own creation, flood, etc..stories, many much older than Gen., written around 1500BC. Still, to each people they saw everything in their own world, often clueless that people existed around the world. We know a small ice age probably caused a great flood, because many tribes tell of it not knowing others existed, but it certainly didn't wipe out all man. However, I sure to each tribe it wiped out humanity as they knew it.

The earth is billions of years old, that is just a fact you can't get around. If you try to take cultural, often poetic account written thousands of years ago to explain science you will come up short.

 

[handy]

As for the earth's age...the planet, this rock we're sitting on...the Bible really doesn't say how old it is. It is so foolish for Christians to state: The Bible teaches the world is 6,000 years old. It does not. Show me chapter and verse if you are going to say it does! That whole idea came about by adding the ages of people in the Scriptures...a very unreliable way to try to "date" something.

The Holy Spirit did not deem it necessary to tell us the date when the earth was created so for Christians to be adamant about the 6,000 year age of the earth is in reality adding to the Scriptures.

The whole evolution/creation discussion could be moved a lot more forward if Christians would simply state that we don't know the geological age of the earth, but that we can know that animals did not evolve from one species to another. We know this because God said He created each animal (even the dinosaurs) "after their own kind". That evolution within species has taken place, there is no doubt...and even honest evolutionists will agree that there are no obvious fossilized examples of one species evolving into another.

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Regarding the earths age, we for a fact have detailed history of other tribes that lived up to 75,000 years ago.

All through known history tribes all over the world had their own creation, flood, etc..stories, many much older than Gen., written around 1500BC. Still, to each people they saw everything in their own world, often clueless that people existed around the world. We know a small ice age probably caused a great flood, because many tribes tell of it not knowing others existed, but it certainly didn't wipe out all man. However, I sure to each tribe it wiped out humanity as they knew it.

The earth is billions of years old, that is just a fact you can't get around. If you try to take cultural, often poetic account written thousands of years ago to explain science you will come up short.

It's not a fact, It's a theory. There's a big difference...

 

[for_his_glory]

Satan can only imitate God in trying to be a god himself with his own evil ministry and servant, but can not create as he is also a created spirit and this is why God can not destroy him in the physical realm.

(for more teachings on Satan please visit my website listed below)

 

[Free]

You don't believe in God, but you believe in dino's huh??

I'm with leftyatbest. How does this question make sense? Dinosaurs are often used as one of the proofs of evolution, so how is it confusing that a non-theist believes dinosaurs existed? Dinosaurs have nothing to do with belief in God.

 

[Grubal Muruch]

I'm with leftyatbest. How does this question make sense? Dinosaurs are often used as one of the proofs of evolution, so how is it confusing that a non-theist believes dinosaurs existed? Dinosaurs have nothing to do with belief in God.

He has confessed he does not believe in the Scriptures. Do you believe in Dinosaurs?? Have you seen one yourself?? Do you know someone who has seen one?? Leftyabest does not believe in God, yet he believes in Dino's.. Does not that take faith as well as believing in God??? There's irony here even if you don't see it...

 

[Gazelle]

Satan can only imitate God in trying to be a god himself with his own evil ministry and servant, but can not create as he is also a created spirit and this is why God can not destroy him in the physical realm.

(for more teachings on Satan please visit my website listed below)

Um I believe that satan and his demons can imitate any form on earth...he began his plight as a snake...God says he walks about as a lion seeking to devour...

but IRL he can be anyone, he often displays as someone's departed ghost for the psychics to mislead people into believing in that... he can manifest as he chooses, I believe. The earth is his domain.

 

[jasoncran]

As for the earth's age...the planet, this rock we're sitting on...the Bible really doesn't say how old it is. It is so foolish for Christians to state: The Bible teaches the world is 6,000 years old. It does not. Show me chapter and verse if you are going to say it does! That whole idea came about by adding the ages of people in the Scriptures...a very unreliable way to try to "date" something.

The Holy Spirit did not deem it necessary to tell us the date when the earth was created so for Christians to be adamant about the 6,000 year age of the earth is in reality adding to the Scriptures.

The whole evolution/creation discussion could be moved a lot more forward if Christians would simply state that we don't know the geological age of the earth, but that we can know that animals did not evolve from one species to another. We know this because God said He created each animal (even the dinosaurs) "after their own kind". That evolution within species has taken place, there is no doubt...and even honest evolutionists will agree that there are no obvious fossilized examples of one species evolving into another.

funny thing is that i have seen jews debate this subject and many did believe in young earth and pulled the word yom.yom can only mean a literal day when has a number in front of it. we have adams age and so forth. so we can be close but not exact.

yom cant mean age in that context. the words delinating a seven day week refered to a creation week that was literal as on the seventh day god rested.

that is where i believe old earth creationism fails. when is it a day? was it on day one? remember it says in the beginning the earth was without form and then goes on to the first day creation .

 

[handy]

funny thing is that i have seen jews debate this subject and many did believe in young earth and pulled the word yom.yom can only mean a literal day when has a number in front of it. we have adams age and so forth. so we can be close but not exact.

yom cant mean age in that context. the words delinating a seven day week refered to a creation week that was literal as on the seventh day god rested.

that is where i believe old earth creationism fails. when is it a day? was it on day one? remember it says in the beginning the earth was without form and then goes on to the first day creation .

I don't have a problem with the earth being either very old or only 6000 years...God created it whichever...

My main problem is when the church teaches that the Bible teaches something that it doesn't. The Bible does not teach us the age of the earth. When we use geneologies to figure out times and then do some math and work backwards....we're getting a long way off from "Thus saith the Lord..."

Keep in mind that the Church was adamant that the Bible "taught" the sun rotated around the earth and also that the earth was flat.

The Church was wrong about those things...and, given that Genesis starts with the earth already in place...the Church could very well be wrong about the earth being only 6000 years old.

 

[Ace1234]

It's not a fact, It's a theory. There's a big difference...

The earth's age cannot be determined down to an exact year, but it's a fact it's millions, if not billions of years old, a scientific fact, not a theory. Now ones faith may be able to ignore that for a 6000 year old earth, but that is faith, not science or theory.

It is as much fact that people lived on this earth 75,000 years ago. We have detailed geneology lines back to 20,000 years. I believe the Gen. period was during the "farm age" of man.

We need not fear when or how God made the earth, the truths we still get, even if in poetic parable form.

Some believe in the old earth doctrine, that God made the earth beautiful and it existed for millions of year, became chaotic during the fall of Satan and God rebuilt the earth. The account in Gens shows God making earth.

Certainly evolution exists, within plants and animals...fact, what is theory is that species evolve into other species, no real evidence for that at all. Even with my weak faith, it's amazing we have millions of totally different species and silly to think all evolved from a critter that crawled out of the ocean.

 

[jasoncran]

I don't have a problem with the earth being either very old or only 6000 years...God created it whichever...

My main problem is when the church teaches that the Bible teaches something that it doesn't. The Bible does not teach us the age of the earth. When we use geneologies to figure out times and then do some math and work backwards....we're getting a long way off from "Thus saith the Lord..."

Keep in mind that the Church was adamant that the Bible "taught" the sun rotated around the earth and also that the earth was flat.

The Church was wrong about those things...and, given that Genesis starts with the earth already in place...the Church could very well be wrong about the earth being only 6000 years old.

possbile but when and where do you stop taking a day as a day? that is your problem quite frankly if evolution were to be true and old earth it wouldnt bother me.

but that isnt how the bible says it happens. theres really no accurate way to guage the earths age. its all based on presumption.


the problem i have for your position tell me whenin the bible was the earth first formed on what day
[/quote]
Genesis 1


<SUP id=en-KJV-1 class=versenum>1</SUP>In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
<SUP id=en-KJV-2 class=versenum>2</SUP>And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
<SUP id=en-KJV-3 class=versenum>3</SUP>And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
<SUP id=en-KJV-4 class=versenum>4</SUP>And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
<SUP id=en-KJV-5 class=versenum>5</SUP>And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
<SUP id=en-KJV-6 class=versenum>6</SUP>And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
<SUP id=en-KJV-7 class=versenum>7</SUP>And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
<SUP id=en-KJV-8 class=versenum>8</SUP>And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
<SUP id=en-KJV-9 class=versenum>9</SUP>And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
<SUP id=en-KJV-10 class=versenum>10</SUP>And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
<SUP id=en-KJV-11 class=versenum>11</SUP>And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
<SUP id=en-KJV-12 class=versenum>12</SUP>And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
<SUP id=en-KJV-13 class=versenum>13</SUP>And the evening and the morning were the third day.
<SUP id=en-KJV-14 class=versenum>14</SUP>And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
<SUP id=en-KJV-15 class=versenum>15</SUP>And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
<SUP id=en-KJV-16 class=versenum>16</SUP>And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
<SUP id=en-KJV-17 class=versenum>17</SUP>And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
<SUP id=en-KJV-18 class=versenum>18</SUP>And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
<SUP id=en-KJV-19 class=versenum>19</SUP>And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
<SUP id=en-KJV-20 class=versenum>20</SUP>And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
<SUP id=en-KJV-21 class=versenum>21</SUP>And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
<SUP id=en-KJV-22 class=versenum>22</SUP>And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
<SUP id=en-KJV-23 class=versenum>23</SUP>And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
<SUP id=en-KJV-24 class=versenum>24</SUP>And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
<SUP id=en-KJV-25 class=versenum>25</SUP>And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
<SUP id=en-KJV-26 class=versenum>26</SUP>And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
<SUP id=en-KJV-27 class=versenum>27</SUP>So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
<SUP id=en-KJV-28 class=versenum>28</SUP>And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
<SUP id=en-KJV-29 class=versenum>29</SUP>And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
<SUP id=en-KJV-30 class=versenum>30</SUP>And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. <SUP id=en-KJV-31 class=versenum>31</SUP>And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.[/quote]

now then we cant say for sure how he did it but he did make the earth first then the stars . so it cant be the big bang deal first.

hmm i wonder what the jews say on this. reading their debate was interesting as some did take it literal still.

 

[Ace1234]

I don't have a problem with the earth being either very old or only 6000 years...God created it whichever...

My main problem is when the church teaches that the Bible teaches something that it doesn't. The Bible does not teach us the age of the earth. When we use geneologies to figure out times and then do some math and work backwards....we're getting a long way off from "Thus saith the Lord..."

Keep in mind that the Church was adamant that the Bible "taught" the sun rotated around the earth and also that the earth was flat.

The Church was wrong about those things...and, given that Genesis starts with the earth already in place...the Church could very well be wrong about the earth being only 6000 years old.

The problem was the church was a political function for hundreds of years and education had to match it's determined doctrines. Simply the political religious leaders set the standard for science and when scientist then proved something it was often at odds with the church.

God remained silent on many issues, but often man in his wisdom filled the void with what he thought at that time. I think when God is silent we must be very careful if at all to create doctrines to try and explain that silence.

Today, the majority of churches don't accept the earth as 6000 years old, cept more fundy ones.

 

[handy]

but that isnt how the bible says it happens. theres really no accurate way to guage the earths age. its all based on presumption.

EXACTLY!!!!!!

Which is why Christians should be very careful in being dogmatic about the whole "young earth" thing. I'm not saying don't share that one believes the earth isn't billions of years old...but Christians go so much further than that.

So many Christians state outright "The Bible teaches that the earth is only 6000 years old"...when it doesn't. Ace1234 is so correct when he says that, when God is silent, we should be very careful about in creating doctrines.

 

[Free]

EXACTLY!!!!!!

Which is why Christians should be very careful in being dogmatic about the whole "young earth" thing. I'm not saying don't share that one believes the earth isn't billions of years old...but Christians go so much further than that.

So many Christians state outright "The Bible teaches that the earth is only 6000 years old"...when it doesn't. Ace1234 is so correct when he says that, when God is silent, we should be very careful about in creating doctrines.

Well said.

 

[Nick]

On that note, anyone who wishes to continue this discussion pelase get Science permissions.

 

[jasoncran]

EXACTLY!!!!!!

Which is why Christians should be very careful in being dogmatic about the whole "young earth" thing. I'm not saying don't share that one believes the earth isn't billions of years old...but Christians go so much further than that.

So many Christians state outright "The Bible teaches that the earth is only 6000 years old"...when it doesn't. Ace1234 is so correct when he says that, when God is silent, we should be very careful about in creating doctrines.

i fully understand that,but when we say day is really a day ? or do when have to insert our ideas. is it so clear that we have to bend thoughts or put thoughts.

i prefer taking the bible at its word. that is why i showed genesis one and said wheres the pause? when did say, stop. and there was a pause. its not salvinic but im sure you dont mind teaching how the read the bible properly.


if one cant see the words first day as such how then can you teach nor understand the rest of the bible correctly? it makes it confusing. i did that in a sense based on your words when i was an oecer briefly a brother showed me that.


shoot now i laugh at christians as myself did this when they say the trinity is in the ot and use genesis one to say that, when elohim isnt even a hebrew word or use the shemah. the jews laughed at me when i did that i know why.

the only way to build the up the trinity is to look at isiah 9:6 and what david says? and then what jesus says.

 

[Barbarian]

Oh, no.....

 

[Free]

i fully understand that,but when we say day is really a day ? or do when have to insert our ideas. is it so clear that we have to bend thoughts or put thoughts.

i prefer taking the bible at its word. that is why i showed genesis one and said wheres the pause? when did say, stop. and there was a pause. its not salvinic but im sure you dont mind teaching how the read the bible properly.


if one cant see the words first day as such how then can you teach nor understand the rest of the bible correctly? it makes it confusing.

If I am understanding you correctly, this is begging the question. I don't think there is one Christian in this discussion who doesn't want to "take the Bible at it's word," as that is precisely what is in question.

If "day" means a literal, 24-hour day, then we need to take the Bible as teaching that. If "day" means a period of time, then we need to understand the Bible as teaching that. So either understanding could be "inserting our ideas" or "putting our thoughts" into the text. That is what we need to figure out.

 

[Pard]

Dinosaurs are not old... They are young and in the Bible silly!

 

[jasoncran]

If I am understanding you correctly, this is begging the question. I don't think there is one Christian in this discussion who doesn't want to "take the Bible at it's word," as that is precisely what is in question.

If "day" means a literal, 24-hour day, then we need to take the Bible as teaching that. If "day" means a period of time, then we need to understand the Bible as teaching that. So either understanding could be "inserting our ideas" or "putting our thoughts" into the text. That is what we need to figure out.

that is correct and the oecer and te must then deny what the writting says to take that position for with the oecer they then ,must postulate that though evolution didnt happen the earth sat dormant with no life on it for years.