We're Getting Our CPL's

[Edward]

Carrying a .22 isn't so much about killing someone as it is about making the carrier believe they are safe.
Do you really think Mike is gonna go out and become a vigilante?
No, I think he'll carry it a while, feel really uncomfortable with it and then get rid of it.
I think the underlying reasons are obvious.
He's trusted God all his life but now he's gonna start trusting a gun in his hands instead?
I don't think so.
Some people have to work that out the hard way.

Oh, posh. Theres still plenty of room for faith in God when/if one carries a firearm. It isnt about replacing God or having more faith in the weapon. Anyone who uses weapons to any extent knows this.

There's no such thing as guaranteed stopping power, even with a 44 magnum. No one said anything about becoming a vigilante. Why would you inject that into the discussion? And why talk Mike down? As if hes clueless and pursuing some imaginary sense of feeling safe...You're weird rollo. Please dont hijack the thread just because you dont understand or dont like guns...

 

[WIP]

Carrying a .22 isn't so much about killing someone as it is about making the carrier believe they are safe.
Do you really think Mike is gonna go out and become a vigilante?
No, I think he'll carry it a while, feel really uncomfortable with it and then get rid of it.
I think the underlying reasons are obvious.
He's trusted God all his life but now he's gonna start trusting a gun in his hands instead?
I don't think so.
Some people have to work that out the hard way.

Pretty extreme assessment on your part I think. Maybe I missed something since I didn't read every post in this thread but I highly doubt Mike is thinking of becoming a vigilante. My point is, if one is going to carry a weapon for self defense, would it not be prudent to make sure it would actually serve said purpose? I've never seen the effect of a bullet wound at close range but my guess is (I'm only guessing based on my hunting experience) that in a situation like this the .22 wouldn't stop the perpetrator immediately. The wound from a .22, especially if bone is not contacted, is rather small at only about 1/4" diameter. From my own experiences with other injuries (never been shot though), when the injury is sudden, one doesn't always feel pain right away either and may not even realize the damage has been done. I'm thinking it's possible the individual may not feel the bullet wound right away.

Any time I've shot a deer that was already aware of my presence they didn't drop in their tracks but rather were able to run for a time even after taking the hit through vital organs such as lungs, heart, etc. About the only time they dropped in place in a situation like that was if I hit their spine rendering them paralyzed. Adrenaline can do some pretty strange things.

 

[WIP]

I might also inject that although a .22 may not be all that much of a cannon, the very presence of it could serve to deter a would-be situation. Unfortunately, once one decides to brandish said weapon he/she should also be prepared to use it. That is probably the most difficult part of carrying a self-defense weapon. It's one thing to carry it and entirely something different to actually use it against another human being. That decision to use it isn't so easy as we might think it is. Isn't that a major contributor to combat vets and law enforcement officers suffering from PTSD?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Okay Edward, WIP, I'm ready for you.

 

[Edward]

I might also inject that although a .22 may not be all that much of a cannon, the very presence of it could serve to deter a would-be situation. Unfortunately, once one decides to brandish said weapon he/she should also be prepared to use it. That is probably the most difficult part of carrying a self-defense weapon. It's one thing to carry it and entirely something different to actually use it against another human being. That decision to use it isn't so easy as we might think it is. Isn't that a major contributor to combat vets and law enforcement officers suffering from PTSD?

You make real good points here brother. Most times the mere presence of a gun (any gun) is enough to stop the fight.

It is true that the 22 doesnt have much stopping power, and that, even if the drug crazed wacko is fatally hit, it may take several minutes for him to bleed out and drop...but realistically, when's the last time you were attacked by such an individual? Normal people dont want shot by any gun, and will back down. Normal people when shot by a measly little 22...dont want to fight anymore. They've got something else to think about now. Being hit one time with a 22 will take the fight out of most people.

A 22 is cheap to shoot and practice with. That encourages more practice. And someone real practiced up with a 22 is a lot more dangerous than a guy with a 45 who shoots it maybe twice a year.

When I was carrying a 22 regularly, the plan was what they call, the Mozambique drill, and I practiced it.
The Mozambique drill goes like this, attacker makes his move and comes at you...you draw from concealment and doubletap (2 shots) center mass, then you lower your muzzle somewhat and check his progress...if hes still coming a shot from there into his pelvic region (if this doesnt drop him, you come back up for a final head shot). So,
2 center mass
1 to the pelvis
1 to the head.
It takes about 3 to 4 seconds including the draw and pause to check his progress.
Thats a pretty good bet if all you have is a 22.

 

[Edward]

...he/she should also be prepared to use it. That is probably the most difficult part of carrying a self-defense weapon. It's one thing to carry it and entirely something different to actually use it against another human being. That decision to use it isn't so easy as we might think it is.

You're right. One has to think this through completely before holstering up and stepping out. Its a big thing to take a life and standing in front of a perp is not the time to think about it. Hesitation could cost you or your loved ones their life.

They say that shooting someone changes you...affects you. I dont ever want to be forced to.

 

[Edward]

Okay Edward, WIP, I'm ready for you.

Shane come back!!! He did die at the end.

 

[Edward]

Read a shooting account where a man carried. Kimber 45. He took his wife to dinner and when they left the restaurant to cross the street to go back to their car, 3 guys followed and approached, drawing knives.
He drew his pistol and neetly shot each one 2 times each. 2 died and the police didnt file charges because it was clearly self defense. He did everything right and protected his wife...

His wife left him over it. She said she knows he saved her but cant look at him without seeing him kill people.

Shooting someone can affect you, and affect how others see you. Even if you do everything right.

 

[Mike]

Mike
This is one of our funniest guns to shoot. It's kind of a pain to load the powder, put the patch and ball in and ram it down, then replace the cap for each shot. But when you pull the trigger, wow, what a rush.
She's loud, but it's not a sharp piercing loud. It's more of that deep base kinda loud. And she pushes gently back into you, unlike the shotgun that snaps into your shoulder with a high powered round.

View attachment 9210

That looks a lot like the old rifle my friend has. You flip up the metal plate, and it has a storage compartment for the the packing and some balls. I forget what size the balls were. We didn't use it, so I can't say what a rush it would be. One of the guys there studies that era a lot, and he was talking about how the really experienced fighters wouldn't even use the rod. They would stuff everything in the end, slam it down on the ground on the butt end, and be ready to shoot. Awesome!

I've never really thought of a .22 as much of a self-defense weapon. Unless hit is a seriously vital area, wouldn't a would-be attacker just continue his/her assault with little effect, at least for a little while?

I don't know, so this is an honest question. Even if what you said here and in other posts is true (much appreciated, BTW) couldn't you get a few shots off quickly to make your point if the first one didn't.

Oh ok. Sorry Brother. What did you have questions on? Id be glad to clarify...

I was mostly just giving you the business, brother. You were on a roll, though. It felt like I stumbled upon the Michigan Militia.

Rollo Tamasi don't let my mild demeanor fool you. Sons of Anarchy is based off my memoirs before my witness protection program.

 

[jasonc]

I might also inject that although a .22 may not be all that much of a cannon, the very presence of it could serve to deter a would-be situation. Unfortunately, once one decides to brandish said weapon he/she should also be prepared to use it. That is probably the most difficult part of carrying a self-defense weapon. It's one thing to carry it and entirely something different to actually use it against another human being. That decision to use it isn't so easy as we might think it is. Isn't that a major contributor to combat vets and law enforcement officers suffering from PTSD?

Off topic,more people suffer ptsd from car accidents then vets. I dated a girl who was in a wreck with me and had it.

 

[JohnDB]

 

[stovebolts]

You make real good points here brother. Most times the mere presence of a gun (any gun) is enough to stop the fight.

It is true that the 22 doesnt have much stopping power, and that, even if the drug crazed wacko is fatally hit, it may take several minutes for him to bleed out and drop...but realistically, when's the last time you were attacked by such an individual? Normal people dont want shot by any gun, and will back down. Normal people when shot by a measly little 22...dont want to fight anymore. They've got something else to think about now. Being hit one time with a 22 will take the fight out of most people.

A 22 is cheap to shoot and practice with. That encourages more practice. And someone real practiced up with a 22 is a lot more dangerous than a guy with a 45 who shoots it maybe twice a year.

When I was carrying a 22 regularly, the plan was what they call, the Mozambique drill, and I practiced it.
The Mozambique drill goes like this, attacker makes his move and comes at you...you draw from concealment and doubletap (2 shots) center mass, then you lower your muzzle somewhat and check his progress...if hes still coming a shot from there into his pelvic region (if this doesnt drop him, you come back up for a final head shot). So,
2 center mass
1 to the pelvis
1 to the head.
It takes about 3 to 4 seconds including the draw and pause to check his progress.
Thats a pretty good bet if all you have is a 22.

Those were my thoughts as well. Honestly, my Ruger 22 rifle is my favorite (Thanks for the clips, they are well used). It's just plain fun to shot "Monsters" off my back porch. Monsters being the drink lol! It's fun, doesn't hurt your shoulder and you don't need ear plugs. And when your done, it takes a whopping 5 minutes to give it a quick cleaning and your set.

Going back to a 22 for protection. If you ever had to pull the gun, the guy on the other end has no idea it's a 22. All he see's is GUN and that automatically evokes fear. When people feel fear, they freeze just for that split second, kinda like a deer before it gets shot. They see you, think for just that second... and that's your window of opportunity for that one well placed round. The second round is just for good measure.

I think it's a mind set though, cause if you pull a weapon of any kind, then you better use is because if you don't, chances are when you hesitate that other person just might take your weapon and use it on you.

I had an incident with a knife when I was a teenager. I ended up pulling my knife because I was in fear of being beat up by several other kids who ganged up on me. It's not a nice feeling to do harm to another human being, but again, if you pull it, you use it. That means that you do everything in your power not to pull your weapon, but when it gets pulled, you don't hesitate... or you just might be the one being taken away in a body bag. I really think its that simple.

 

[WIP]

I agree with all your points Edward.

 

[WIP]

I don't know, so this is an honest question. Even if what you said here and in other posts is true (much appreciated, BTW) couldn't you get a few shots off quickly to make your point if the first one didn't.

That is a good point and as Edward already mentioned, the one being shot will likely be thinking about what just happened and take his/her focus off of the task long enough for escape.