Well done, but that doesn't always account for semantics inherent in all languages and the literal and metaphorical applications of verses.
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What A Bunch Of Lies
- Thread starter Lewis
- Start date
I study semantics, sophistry, and some forms of hypnotism, such as planting certain beliefs in the subconscious without the person being consciously aware that they have accepted a belief. Much of advanced sophistry is about subtle changes in the meanings of words, so that they don't actually mean what they are supposed to mean. Hence Muslims believe that they believe in Jesus when they actually don't, and the Gospel of the kingdom of God is also thought to be believed in, only unbeknownst with a false Image of god.
I don't try to prove the Quran wrong when preaching to a Muslim. I simply ask if they personally believe wnether God's Love is a love that would sacrifice His self to save others, or sacrifice others to save Himself. This is one of the ways I can use as opportunity to open the door to introduce Christ.
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Affectively yes.
Again the spin i asked for your opinion,.lol to me the intent of playing word games to twist things is deceitful
Reba, if you are going to claim I twist words deceitfully then you should be able to show where I twisted them for a deceitful purpose. So what exactly do you consider was deceitful about what I have said? There are billions of Muslims in the world. Surely you didn't expect me to opine as to whether the Quran represents their way of life when I can't possibly know how they all live.
But if you're asking if Muslims are supposed to follow the Quran, it's laws and teachings etc... the answer is obviously yes, and I indicated this in the first response.
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Corn Pop
Member
How do you know what the gospel is, what christianity is, what anything is, if you don't know if a religious interpretation is correct. Is the quran harder to read and understand than the gospel that is also translated?. No. It says what it says from Arabic to English maybe a few minor translation errors like the bible has nothing major the message doesnt change. Everything that has brackets in the quran verses someone has put there.
A muslim was trying to disprove claims about islam. This is the verse he quoted, This is what you call a lie and twisting the truth. This is what you call using taqiyya to try get people to accept islam.
Quran 49:10
Humanity is but a single brotherhood so find peace with your brethren.
What it really says in every quran translation.
Quran 49:10
The believers are but brothers, so make settlement between your brothers. And fear Allah that you may receive mercy.
True muslims to have peace with true muslims. That can also go back to the quran verse for context "Mohamud is the messenger of allah and those who are with him are severe against the unbelievers and merciful among themselves".
A muslim was trying to disprove claims about islam. This is the verse he quoted, This is what you call a lie and twisting the truth. This is what you call using taqiyya to try get people to accept islam.
Quran 49:10
Humanity is but a single brotherhood so find peace with your brethren.
What it really says in every quran translation.
Quran 49:10
The believers are but brothers, so make settlement between your brothers. And fear Allah that you may receive mercy.
True muslims to have peace with true muslims. That can also go back to the quran verse for context "Mohamud is the messenger of allah and those who are with him are severe against the unbelievers and merciful among themselves".
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Good questions. You are inquiring into epistemology. As you have pointed out, in the case of Christianity, the term "know" is in the context of knowing a Person, and that Person is the Christ, the True Image of God sent by God. This knowledge comes through the Holy Spirit, and without the Holy Spirit nobody can confess Christ nor comprehend the Gospel. This is why I have said in an earlier post that the Word of God is not a book.
The fact is, that all things are built upon faith concerning what is the Eternal power. And this is because no one can prove that something Eternal is actually eternal, and therefore nor can anyone disprove any accusation that it is not eternal.
What's more, is that that which is Eternal is also therefore Holy and what is Holy is also trustworthy. Therefore faith can be quantified by exploring in what capacity one believes that God/Creator is trustworthy. The kingdom of Light is built upon the belief that He is trustworthy, and the kingdom of darkness is built upon the doubt that He is trustworthy. All semantics in moral/immoral terms including scripture denote one of these two kingdoms.
In moral terminology the highest value is always Love. We know this as an axiom, because Love is the Spirit that is the moral goodness in mankind. We don't need to read about it to know Love, we experience Love so as to know Love. So it is that when we read in scripture where it says He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love, our own spirit testifies to it as fact. Love is therefore the Spirit of Light and where love is absent in various degrees, there is darkness.
I think it's clear that anyone who out of Love would sacrifice their self to save others is trustworthy, and anyone who would sacrifice others to save themselves is untrustworthy. And through the Holy Spirit, this is how I know Jesus is the Christ, and I also know that it's better to believe that Love is Eternal and trustworthy than not to.
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Corn Pop
Member
What I do find amazing is how Jesus is refered to as a great prophet in Islam, and the quran says many times the gospel is truth, yet this is all islam knows about Jesus, even it not even a true teaching.
“I have come to you with a sign from your Lord. I make for you the shape of a bird out of clay, I breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by God’s permission. I heal the blind from birth and the leper. And I bring the dead to life by God’s permission. And I tell you what you eat and what you store in your houses.”
You would think if the quran speaks of the Gospel as truth and says the Christians have the Gospel, and the Gospel and Torah was revealed by allah, and no one can change allah's words, and Jesus was a great prophet of islam, islam would know more about Jesus than just a tiny fragment of a pagan teaching in circulation.
At the time of Mohamud the Gospel the Christians had is the same Gospel we have today. Even the bible (Torah and Gospel) was established and put into a collection of books 300 years before Mohamud even existed, and the beliefs all Christians held the foundation from the time of Christ and the 1st century was still the gospel of the birth, death and ressurection of Jesus, as the quran denies.
The quran says those who find the unlettered prophet in the Torah and Gospel and Let those of the gospel judge by the gospel.
Quran 5:47
And let the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein
Quran 7:157
Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel
The above verse (part quoted) is a problem because Mohamud is trying to tell his followers he is revealed in the Torah and Gospel and the Torah and the Gospel is the uncorrupted truth of allah(as he said judge by it), but he's not in it and it says the total opposite of what Mohamud says.
How many muslims would have gone to the Christians and asked to read there scriptures and found Mohamud or found Jesus not crucified or died as Mohamud claims, all they would have found is Jesus Christ is Lord who was crucified and raised from the dead. Jesus calls God his Father although the scriptures, Jesus died on a cross and rose from the dead, Jesus says everything that is Gods is his, absolutaly everything in the gospel totally contradicts Mohamud and his teachings. It says the total opposite of Mohamud.
How on earth can islam claim the quran is not corrupted when it says Jesus was not crucified and did not die and the Gospel its the truth, and the Gospel says Jesus was crucified and most certainly died on a cross.
“I have come to you with a sign from your Lord. I make for you the shape of a bird out of clay, I breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by God’s permission. I heal the blind from birth and the leper. And I bring the dead to life by God’s permission. And I tell you what you eat and what you store in your houses.”
You would think if the quran speaks of the Gospel as truth and says the Christians have the Gospel, and the Gospel and Torah was revealed by allah, and no one can change allah's words, and Jesus was a great prophet of islam, islam would know more about Jesus than just a tiny fragment of a pagan teaching in circulation.
At the time of Mohamud the Gospel the Christians had is the same Gospel we have today. Even the bible (Torah and Gospel) was established and put into a collection of books 300 years before Mohamud even existed, and the beliefs all Christians held the foundation from the time of Christ and the 1st century was still the gospel of the birth, death and ressurection of Jesus, as the quran denies.
The quran says those who find the unlettered prophet in the Torah and Gospel and Let those of the gospel judge by the gospel.
Quran 5:47
And let the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein
Quran 7:157
Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel
The above verse (part quoted) is a problem because Mohamud is trying to tell his followers he is revealed in the Torah and Gospel and the Torah and the Gospel is the uncorrupted truth of allah(as he said judge by it), but he's not in it and it says the total opposite of what Mohamud says.
How many muslims would have gone to the Christians and asked to read there scriptures and found Mohamud or found Jesus not crucified or died as Mohamud claims, all they would have found is Jesus Christ is Lord who was crucified and raised from the dead. Jesus calls God his Father although the scriptures, Jesus died on a cross and rose from the dead, Jesus says everything that is Gods is his, absolutaly everything in the gospel totally contradicts Mohamud and his teachings. It says the total opposite of Mohamud.
How on earth can islam claim the quran is not corrupted when it says Jesus was not crucified and did not die and the Gospel its the truth, and the Gospel says Jesus was crucified and most certainly died on a cross.
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Corn Pop
Member
Surah 3:3
He has sent down upon you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming what was before it. And He revealed the Torah and the Gospel. Before, as guidance for the people. And He revealed the Qur'an.
So the Torah and Gospel is inspired by allah so i open up the historically reliable gospel and torah sources, and both sources do not line up with Mohamud and the quran. The Gospel says Jesus was crucified on a cross and rose from the dead.
So many want to claim the Gospel must have been corrupted because Mohamud cannot lie he is a prophet. But how can the Gospel be corrupted when no one can change allah's words.
Surah 18:27
And recite, [O Muhammad], what has been revealed to you of the Book of your Lord. There is no changer of His words, and never will you find in other than Him a refuge.
If I said to you I am a prophet you can go down the river and there is a big sign saying "Dan is great", and you go down the river and you see the sign saying "Dan is a liar don't trust him", you would come back and call me a liar. And who is wrong. Was the sign corrupt?. I am wrong, not the sign. I am the liar and false prophet for saying the sign said I was great.
Maybe Mohamud should have taken allahs advise and asked the Christians.
Surah 10:94
So if you are in doubt, [O Muhammad], about that which We have revealed to you, then ask those who have been reading the Scripture before you.
Mohamud also believed his first revelations were demonic and he was possesed, and he didnt want shame with his tribe so he wanted to jump off a cliff. His wife and her cousin were the one who annointed Mohamud a prophet even they did not know anything or witness anything. They said if he had a dream it must be from God. Thats how it all started. And God always comforts if something is from him. Mohamud was not comforted.
He has sent down upon you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming what was before it. And He revealed the Torah and the Gospel. Before, as guidance for the people. And He revealed the Qur'an.
So the Torah and Gospel is inspired by allah so i open up the historically reliable gospel and torah sources, and both sources do not line up with Mohamud and the quran. The Gospel says Jesus was crucified on a cross and rose from the dead.
So many want to claim the Gospel must have been corrupted because Mohamud cannot lie he is a prophet. But how can the Gospel be corrupted when no one can change allah's words.
Surah 18:27
And recite, [O Muhammad], what has been revealed to you of the Book of your Lord. There is no changer of His words, and never will you find in other than Him a refuge.
If I said to you I am a prophet you can go down the river and there is a big sign saying "Dan is great", and you go down the river and you see the sign saying "Dan is a liar don't trust him", you would come back and call me a liar. And who is wrong. Was the sign corrupt?. I am wrong, not the sign. I am the liar and false prophet for saying the sign said I was great.
Maybe Mohamud should have taken allahs advise and asked the Christians.
Surah 10:94
So if you are in doubt, [O Muhammad], about that which We have revealed to you, then ask those who have been reading the Scripture before you.
Mohamud also believed his first revelations were demonic and he was possesed, and he didnt want shame with his tribe so he wanted to jump off a cliff. His wife and her cousin were the one who annointed Mohamud a prophet even they did not know anything or witness anything. They said if he had a dream it must be from God. Thats how it all started. And God always comforts if something is from him. Mohamud was not comforted.
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Corn Pop
Member
When the gospel and quran conflict the first thing our muslim friends claim is the gospel must have been corrupted by Paul and others, it was just corrupted somehow because if it doesn't add up with Mohamud and the quran something is wrong and it cannot be Mohamud.
But I ask our muslim friends how it could have been corrupted when the Christians had the uncorrupted Torah and Gospel at the time of Mohamud, and Allah himself says the Gospel is the truth and was uncorrupted at the time of Mohamud.
Does allah say the gospel the christians have always had thats based on the birth, death and ressurection of Christ has been corrupted even to the 7th century and the time of mohamud?
Surah 7:157
Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel, who enjoins upon them what is right and forbids them what is wrong and makes lawful for them the good things and prohibits for them the evil and relieves them of their burden and the shackles which were upon them. So they who have believed in him, honored him, supported him and followed the light which was sent down with him - it is those who will be the successful.
And more
Surah 5:47
And let the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein
And more
Surah 3:3
He has sent down upon you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming what was before it. And He revealed the Torah and the Gospel. Before, as guidance for the people. And He revealed the Qur'an.
But I ask our muslim friends how it could have been corrupted when the Christians had the uncorrupted Torah and Gospel at the time of Mohamud, and Allah himself says the Gospel is the truth and was uncorrupted at the time of Mohamud.
Does allah say the gospel the christians have always had thats based on the birth, death and ressurection of Christ has been corrupted even to the 7th century and the time of mohamud?
Surah 7:157
Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered prophet, whom they find written in what they have of the Torah and the Gospel, who enjoins upon them what is right and forbids them what is wrong and makes lawful for them the good things and prohibits for them the evil and relieves them of their burden and the shackles which were upon them. So they who have believed in him, honored him, supported him and followed the light which was sent down with him - it is those who will be the successful.
And more
Surah 5:47
And let the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein
And more
Surah 3:3
He has sent down upon you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming what was before it. And He revealed the Torah and the Gospel. Before, as guidance for the people. And He revealed the Qur'an.
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Corn Pop
Member
Islam does not submit to allah, it submits to Mohamud.
Surah 4:65
But no, by your Lord, they will not [truly] believe until they make you, [O Muhammad], judge concerning that over which they dispute among themselves and then find within themselves no discomfort from what you have judged and submit in [full, willing] submission.
Even the tashahbud, the testimony of faith, in part, prays to Mohamud. In the daily prayer it says "Peace be upon you, 0 Prophet and Allah's mercy and blessings.". Thats praying to Mohamud.
If calling Jesus God is idolatry, then what is fully submiting to Mohamud as judge and praying to him.
Surah 4:65
But no, by your Lord, they will not [truly] believe until they make you, [O Muhammad], judge concerning that over which they dispute among themselves and then find within themselves no discomfort from what you have judged and submit in [full, willing] submission.
Even the tashahbud, the testimony of faith, in part, prays to Mohamud. In the daily prayer it says "Peace be upon you, 0 Prophet and Allah's mercy and blessings.". Thats praying to Mohamud.
If calling Jesus God is idolatry, then what is fully submiting to Mohamud as judge and praying to him.
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