What are You Trusting in for Your Salvation?

[Robert Pate]

Exactly. You just confirmed what I was saying. Without belief in the risen Christ as the foundation then there is no truth.

The Cross is the most symbolic and meaningful in Christianity but the ressurection is what backs it up. Without the resurrection what is the Cross. Some regular dude just died in the past like every other regular dude. His rise from the dead is the hope and life.

The original post says what are trusting in for salvation.

Is it the Cross?. The belief in the ressurection of Christ is what backs up the Cross and Jesus walk and talk and gives life and hope. Without that what is everything before it?

Paul talks about he preach Christ crucified, but without the ressurection of Christ, what is Christ crucified?. Nothing. If Jesus didn't rise from the dead he's a joker.

The resurrection of Jesus is foundation of Christianity.

The resurrection of Jesus is God's stamp of approval on all that Jesus is and all that Jesus did.

 

[Robert Pate]

Then you have never heard of faith works continuing in the works of the Lord after we first believed by faith in Christ Jesus.

To say faith without works is dead is the same as saying faith without love is dead for the works we do unto the Lord are our labor of love for others as in Matthew 25:34-40. It's the same labor of love Christ did for us. Faith is action and if it has no fruit it is a false faith. James is not speaking about one who has faith, but one who claims to have faith. It's like giving lip service, but the heart is empty and void of God. Just because one claims to have faith doesn't mean they do, especially if there is no fruit to judge in them as that is how we judge one another, Matthew 7:15-23. We are saved by faith (Christ Jesus) through that of Gods grace (favor) as we can not earn it, but confess it.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

The book of James was directed to law keeping Jews, James 1:1 and not to Gentile Christians. The book of James is more Jewish than it is Christian. Many Christian scholars believe that the book of James should not be in the Bible.

 

[Corn Pop]

The resurrection of Jesus is foundation of Christianity.

The resurrection of Jesus is God's stamp of approval on all that Jesus is and all that Jesus did.

If Jesus didn't rise from the dead there would be no new covenant Christian scripture for anyone to read. Christianity simply wouldn't exist. Everything in the new covernent scriptures would cease to exist, without Christ risen from the dead all the scriptures are dead.

Everything written was after the fact and ressurection. There would still have been a few hisorical references outside the bible like there are today to confirm this dude Jesus existed and a few things, and that's another backup, but nothing more than that would have come forth from it.

 

[Tenchi]

The only thing that counts for anything under the New Covenant is faith, mainly faith in Christ and his Gospel. Works and obedience don't count for much or Jesus would not have said, "Many will say to me in that day (judgment day) Lord, Lord, have we not preached in your name, and in your name cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works, and then I will say unto them, I never knew you: depart from me you that work iniquity" Matthew 7:22-23. This apparently is a group of people that thought that their works or their obedience would save them. Jesus said to them, "I never knew you." The reason that Jesus never knew them is because they had never called upon him to save them, Romans 10:13. Instead, they were trusting in their religion and in their good works and in their obedience to the law to save them.

Actually, the story in Matthew 7:21-23 is specifically about those who "do the will of the Father in heaven" (vs. 21) What is the First and Great Commandment of God? Read Matthew 22:36-38. Did those cast out ever claim obedience to this command? Nope. An odd thing, if they were going to make their case for entrance into heaven on the basis of what they had done. What surer way could there be to establish one's obedience to God the Father than to say that one had loved Him with all of their being as He commanded? But those declaring their good deeds never said anything about loving God.

Faith is what Christianity is all about

1 Corinthians 13:13
13 And now abides faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

I do agree that faith is essential to walking with God, though. Just not quite as paramount as you've made it out to be.

 

[Walpole]

Justification is by grace through faith, not from yourself and not by works. It is by faith alone since all human efforts are excluded here, Ephesians 2:8, 9. Ephesians goes on to say that every person who has faith is to produce good works according to God's plan Ephesians 2:10. We know also that faith without works is dead faith. These works, however, are not a cause for forgiveness, but a result of forgiveness. Faith alone justifies, but faith is never alone as it is followed by good works. The works of love are the goal of the saving faith, 1 Timothy 1:5.

James 1:16-18 clearly teaches that the recipients of the letter have been justified by God through the saving gospel which is Christ Jesus who is our faith. James also taught in James 2:14-26 that faith is dead within us if not followed by good works as it takes faith and good works to justify us. It begins with faith alone when we first accept Jesus as Lord and Savior entering into a better covenant by God's grace and then we become his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Where in Ephesians 2:8 are the words "faith alone"?

As far as I know, the ONLY place in all of Scripture where the words "faith alone" appear are a condemnation of it.

Land the plane: If you believe we are saved by faith alone, then you must believe a faith without works - what Scripture calls a dead faith - is a salvific one. Is this true?

 

[jaybo]

Yes but all that is useless without Jesus ressurection. Why should I care or believe what they say if Jesus didn't rise from the dead. They would all be just liars and I don't trust and believe liars.

But Jesus has been resurrected, so what is your point?

 

[Robert Pate]

Actually, the story in Matthew 7:21-23 is specifically about those who "do the will of the Father in heaven" (vs. 21) What is the First and Great Commandment of God? Read Matthew 22:36-38. Did those cast out ever claim obedience to this command? Nope. An odd thing, if they were going to make their case for entrance into heaven on the basis of what they had done. What surer way could there be to establish one's obedience to God the Father than to say that one had loved Him with all of their being as He commanded? But those declaring their good deeds never said anything about loving God.



1 Corinthians 13:13
13 And now abides faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

I do agree that faith is essential to walking with God, though. Just not quite as paramount as you've made it out to be.

From faith comes all of the virtues of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Free]

Where in Ephesians 2:8 are the words "faith alone"?

As far as I know, the ONLY place in all of Scripture where the words "faith alone" appear are a condemnation of it.

Land the plane: If you believe we are saved by faith alone, then you must believe a faith without works - what Scripture calls a dead faith - is a salvific one. Is this true?

Paul is using "justified" in a different sense ("to be declared righteous") in Eph 2:8 than James uses in 2:24. James is speaking of works that demonstrate and prove one's faith.

Jas 2:14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food,
Jas 2:16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that?
Jas 2:17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
Jas 2:18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!
Jas 2:20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar?
Jas 2:22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works;
Jas 2:23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God.
Jas 2:24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
Jas 2:25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?
Jas 2:26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

Rom 3:28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

Rom 4:2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
Rom 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”
Rom 4:4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.
Rom 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

Rom 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (compare with 4:4)

Gal 2:16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Php 3:9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—

We know that works of the law do not save; Paul makes this clear in numerous places. If works of the law don't save, then it would be really strange for James to argue that mere good works save. Rather, James is making the point that if one claims to have faith, but there are no good works to demonstrate obedience to God, then they really don't have faith at all; it is a dead faith.

John and Jesus also agree that justification is by faith alone:

Joh 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
Joh 3:15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
...
Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Joh 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

Joh 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

Elsewhere:

Act 13:38 Let it be known to you therefore, brothers, that through this man forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,
Act 13:39 and by him everyone who believes is freed from everything from which you could not be freed by the law of Moses.

Act 16:31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

(All ESV.)

In short, it doesn't need to say "faith alone" in order to be faith alone.

 

[for_his_glory]

Where in Ephesians 2:8 are the words "faith alone"?

Where does it say faith and works?

Good works done unto God are the consequences of salvation by saving faith and not it's justification.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

 

[for_his_glory]

But Jesus has been resurrected, so what is your point?

I will let King Dan of Great the 1st speak for himself, but he is right as if Jesus was not resurrected then that would make the Apostles all liars within how they said they witnessed the risen Christ and testified of that.

 

[for_his_glory]

From faith comes all of the virtues of the Holy Spirit.

What are these virtues you speak of? can you list them with the scriptures?

 

[for_his_glory]

The book of James was directed to law keeping Jews, James 1:1 and not to Gentile Christians. The book of James is more Jewish than it is Christian. Many Christian scholars believe that the book of James should not be in the Bible.

In James 1:1; 2:1 James refers to the Lord Christ Jesus and in 5, 7, 8 he anticipates the coming of the Lord. Compared to other NT writers James says very little about Christ and yet his speech is virtually saturated with allusions to the teachings of Christ.

 

[Robert Pate]

In James 1:1; 2:1 James refers to the Lord Christ Jesus and in 5, 7, 8 he anticipates the coming of the Lord. Compared to other NT writers James says very little about Christ and yet his speech is virtually saturated with allusions to the teachings of Christ.

James believed in Jesus, but he also believed that you must keep the law of Moses, which made him a Judaizer. I am sure that James like many others came to believe the Gospel and justification by faith at a later date.

 

[Robert Pate]

What are these virtues you speak of? can you list them with the scriptures?

Love, joy, peace, patience.

 

[Free]

James believed in Jesus, but he also believed that you must keep the law of Moses, which made him a Judaizer. I am sure that James like many others came to believe the Gospel and justification by faith at a later date.

Where is the evidence that James “also believed you must keep the law of Moses”?

 

[Robert Pate]

Where is the evidence that James “also believed you must keep the law of Moses”?

James was the head of the church in Jerusalem.

Some Gentiles wanted to join the church in Jerusalem. James thought that they should be circumcised. Acts 15:1-21.

James sent men to spy on Peter and Barnabas to see if they were eating with Gentiles, Galatians 2:11-21.

 

[Tenchi]

From faith comes all of the virtues of the Holy Spirit.

Not from, by. The "virtues" of the Spirit come from him, not from our faith. Our faith is merely the means by which we lay hold of what is ours in Christ; faith is not the source of what is ours IN HIM.

 

[Cooper]

James was the head of the church in Jerusalem.

Some Gentiles wanted to join the church in Jerusalem. James thought that they should be circumcised. Acts 15:1-21.

James sent men to spy on Peter and Barnabas to see if they were eating with Gentiles, Galatians 2:11-21.

That just shows how much I know. I always assumed the writer of the epistle was the disciple James, but then I read: -

"This James was not the apostle James, whose martyrdom is recorded in Act_12:2. This was the one traditionally known as James the Just - the half-brother of Jesus (Mat_13:55), the brother of Jude (Jud_1:1), and the author of the book of James (Jas_1:1) He was the acknowledged head of the church at Jerusalem, and the chairman of the council, not Peter.” (Boice, and Robert Pate)

So here we have faith working together with works, and his already existing faith was perfected by works. (James 2:22)
.

 

[for_his_glory]

Love, joy, peace, patience.

I also asked for the scriptures

 

[for_his_glory]

James believed in Jesus, but he also believed that you must keep the law of Moses, which made him a Judaizer. I am sure that James like many others came to believe the Gospel and justification by faith at a later date.

Where does it say in the book of James that he kept all 613 Mosaic laws?