What are You Trusting in for Your Salvation?

[jaybo]

Why does the OP say "what are you trusting in for your salvation" instead of "who are you trusting in for your salvation"?

 

[Robert Pate]

That just shows how much I know. I always assumed the writer of the epistle was the disciple James, but then I read: -

"This James was not the apostle James, whose martyrdom is recorded in Act_12:2. This was the one traditionally known as James the Just - the half-brother of Jesus (Mat_13:55), the brother of Jude (Jud_1:1), and the author of the book of James (Jas_1:1) He was the acknowledged head of the church at Jerusalem, and the chairman of the council, not Peter.” (Boice, and Robert Pate)

So here we have faith working together with works, and his already existing faith was perfected by works. (James 2:22)
.

I disagree. This is what is wrong with the book of James. There is to much emphasis on works and not enough emphasis on faith in Christ and his Gospel. The book of James is more Jewish than it is Christian.

 

[Robert Pate]

Why does the OP say "what are you trusting in for your salvation" instead of "who are you trusting in for your salvation"?

Already answered this somewhere. Many are trusting in their religion to save them, while others are trusting in their doctrine and their religion.

 

[Robert Pate]

Where does it say in the book of James that he kept all 613 Mosaic laws?

Most law keepers believe that they are keeping the law.

 

[Robert Pate]

Not from, by. The "virtues" of the Spirit come from him, not from our faith. Our faith is merely the means by which we lay hold of what is ours in Christ; faith is not the source of what is ours IN HIM.

Faith in Christ and his Gospel becomes ours by faith. If it isn't faith, then what is it?

 

[Walpole]

Where does it say faith and works?

Good works done unto God are the consequences of salvation by saving faith and not it's justification.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Non sequitur. You asserted, "It is by faith alone since all human efforts are excluded here, Ephesians 2:8, 9."

The reason you will not answer is because the words "faith alone" are not found in Ephesians 2:8-9. Again, the ONLY place in Scripture where the words "faith alone" appear are a condemnation of it. (James 2:24)

Furthermore, the word "alone" means to the exclusion of ALL others. St. Paul himself refutes any notion we are saved by faith alone by the sheer fact that he wrote this...

Romans 8:24 ---> "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?"

Here St. Paul tells the faithful at Rome that we are saved by hope. That directly contradicts any assertion that we are saved by faith alone.

 

[for_his_glory]

Most law keepers believe that they are keeping the law.

Well, it seems you can not find this in the book of James and I never take a man's word for anything.

 

[for_his_glory]

Non sequitur. You asserted, "It is by faith alone since all human efforts are excluded here, Ephesians 2:8, 9."

The reason you will not answer is because the words "faith alone" are not found in Ephesians 2:8-9. Again, the ONLY place in Scripture where the words "faith alone" appear are a condemnation of it. (James 2:24)

Furthermore, the word "alone" means to the exclusion of ALL others. St. Paul himself refutes any notion we are saved by faith alone by the sheer fact that he wrote this...

Romans 8:24 ---> "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?"

Here St. Paul tells the faithful at Rome that we are saved by hope. That directly contradicts any assertion that we are saved by faith alone.

I did not assert anything into Ephesians 2:8-10. It's very clear in vs. 9 not by works, so that would make it by faith alone as the works are the evidence of faith. vs. 10 we are his workmanship that after faith follows good works done unto the Lord.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Rom 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Our faith begins by believing that Jesus died for us and was risen on the third day as He is our hope of redemption for our sins.

Rom 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Salvation is by faith, not by works, as by hearing the word preached to us we become Spiritually born again from above as no one can work for their salvation as they would be climbing up another way and would never see the kingdom of God.


John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
John 10:2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
John 10:3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
John 10:4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
John 10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

 

[Walpole]

I did not assert anything into Ephesians 2:8-10. It's very clear in vs. 9 not by works, so that would make it by faith alone as the works are the evidence of faith. vs. 10 we are his workmanship that after faith follows good works done unto the Lord.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Rom 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Our faith begins by believing that Jesus died for us and was risen on the third day as He is our hope of redemption for our sins.

Rom 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Salvation is by faith, not by works, as by hearing the word preached to us we become Spiritually born again from above as no one can work for their salvation as they would be climbing up another way and would never see the kingdom of God.


John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
John 10:2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
John 10:3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
John 10:4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
John 10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

Have you forgotten what you have posted? Here is what you wrote...

Justification is by grace through faith, not from yourself and not by works. It is by faith alone since all human efforts are excluded here, Ephesians 2:8, 9. Ephesians goes on to say that every person who has faith is to produce good works according to God's plan Ephesians 2:10. We know also that faith without works is dead faith. These works, however, are not a cause for forgiveness, but a result of forgiveness. Faith alone justifies, but faith is never alone as it is followed by good works. The works of love are the goal of the saving faith, 1 Timothy 1:5.

James 1:16-18 clearly teaches that the recipients of the letter have been justified by God through the saving gospel which is Christ Jesus who is our faith. James also taught in James 2:14-26 that faith is dead within us if not followed by good works as it takes faith and good works to justify us. It begins with faith alone when we first accept Jesus as Lord and Savior entering into a better covenant by God's grace and then we become his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Did you see that? You wrote, "It is by faith alone since all human efforts are excluded here, Ephesians 2:8,9"

When I do a Scripture search, the only place where the words "faith alone" appear are a condemnation of it. (James 2:24) And once again, St. Paul refutes this directly where he stated to the faithful at Rome...

Romans 8:24 ---> "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?"

If we are saved by hope, we cannot be saved by faith alone.

 

[for_his_glory]

Have you forgotten what you have posted? Here is what you wrote...


Did you see that? You wrote, "It is by faith alone since all human efforts are excluded here, Ephesians 2:8,9"

When I do a Scripture search, the only place where the words "faith alone" appear are a condemnation of it. (James 2:24) And once again, St. Paul refutes this directly where he stated to the faithful at Rome...

Romans 8:24 ---> "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?"

If we are saved by hope, we cannot be saved by faith alone.

Faith is our hope as we have never seen Jesus, which is the substance of that which we have never seen.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

 

[Cooper]

I disagree. This is what is wrong with the book of James. There is to much emphasis on works and not enough emphasis on faith in Christ and his Gospel. The book of James is more Jewish than it is Christian.

What were the Jews demonstrating when they worshipped an unseen God if it wasn't faith?

It was their faith that motivated them into action. Works followed.

 

[Robert Pate]

What were the Jews demonstrating when they worshipped an unseen God if it wasn't faith?

It was their faith that motivated them into action. Works followed.

The Jews did not have faith in God, if they did, they would have accepted his Messiah.

What they had faith in was their religion. They thought that they could please God by their works and obedience to the law. Read the 23rd chapter of Matthew and see what Jesus thought about them.

 

[Cooper]

The Jews did not have faith in God, if they did, they would have accepted his Messiah.

What they had faith in was their religion. They thought that they could please God by their works and obedience to the law. Read the 23rd chapter of Matthew and see what Jesus thought about them.

They thought they could please god........ so then came the works.
Belief first followed by works.

 

[donadams]

What am i trusting in for salvation. Well number 1 would have to be that Jesus rose from the dead. Without that where is my trust and hope in salvation. It is all just a scam and Jesus was a liar otherwise.

Christianity was founded on the resurrection of Christ. Without that Christianity is nothing.

Lk 2:10-11? Jn 1:29?
Thanks

 

[donadams]

Dirty river water can not save anyone. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Baptism is included in what we must believe

Matt 28:19 Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 Jn 4:1 acts 2:38-39 acts 22:16 acts 8:36-38 acts 22:16 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:20-21

“Faith alone” Questions

where does ez 36: 25:27 Say “faith alone”?

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.

How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2

“Faith alone” unbiblical!

“Faith alone” is a heresy condemned by the authority of Christ in holy apostolic council!

 

[donadams]

Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!

Faith and baptism!

Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!

Only James 2:24 a man is justified by works and not by “faith alone”

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!

 

[Tenchi]

Faith in Christ and his Gospel becomes ours by faith. If it isn't faith, then what is it?

I was making a distinction between the means to a thing and the thing itself. I may draw water from a well with a bucket but it isn't the bucket that slakes my thirst, but the water in the bucket. So, too, regarding faith: By faith I enter into fellowship with God through Jesus Christ, but I find life eternal in Jesus, not my faith. My faith is just the means - the "bucket" - that draws from the "well" of God all that can be mine in Christ. But the "water" of the life of Christ is not my faith any more than a bucket is the water it draws from a well. Do you see the distinction I'm making here?

 

[for_his_glory]

Baptism is included in what we must believe

Matt 28:19 Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 Jn 4:1 acts 2:38-39 acts 22:16 acts 8:36-38 acts 22:16 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:20-21

“Faith alone” Questions

where does ez 36: 25:27 Say “faith alone”?

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.

How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2

“Faith alone” unbiblical!

“Faith alone” is a heresy condemned by the authority of Christ in holy apostolic council!

I, and many of us, have already given you the scriptures for faith alone as no one can work for their salvation, but need to endure until the end when Christ returns as we will then be caught up to Him for all eternity. It begins by God's free gift of grace as we are saved by faith; and that not of ourselves. Faith alone is what saves us and then works become the evidence of our faith in Christ Jesus as faith without works is dead faith.

I have given all I can to this and will bid you a good day and God bless.

 

[Robert Pate]

I was making a distinction between the means to a thing and the thing itself. I may draw water from a well with a bucket but it isn't the bucket that slakes my thirst, but the water in the bucket. So, too, regarding faith: By faith I enter into fellowship with God through Jesus Christ, but I find life eternal in Jesus, not my faith. My faith is just the means - the "bucket" - that draws from the "well" of God all that can be mine in Christ. But the "water" of the life of Christ is not my faith any more than a bucket is the water it draws from a well. Do you see the distinction I'm making here?

Good analogy. However, without the bucket (Faith) you cannot have the water (Christ).

 

[Tenchi]

Good analogy. However, without the bucket (Faith) you cannot have the water (Christ).

Yes, I agree. But, as I'm sure you know, our capacity to exercise faith in anything comes ultimately from God.

Romans 12:3 (NASB)
3 For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.

And our faith must be helped by Him as we consider the Gospel and move toward Christ.

John 6:44 (NASB)
44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

John 16:7-8 (NASB)
7 "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.
8 "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;

2 Timothy 2:24-26 (NASB)
24 The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged,
25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,
26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.

I point out these things because sometimes faith gets exaggerated beyond its rightful place and becomes an exercise of human will and credulity rather than something which comes from God.