What do Calvinists really believe?

[smaller]

There are no specifics. It;s all over the map and if someone answered you you'd just change it and not address it. I'm not sure a rational discussion is possible within your agenda. Why don't you start your own thread and just call it, "How to misunderstand Calvinism". Whatever you put in it should be fine.

And you are welcome to specifics or spin as well.

I accept some of the Calvin positions, particularly Divine Sovereignty.

Calvin seemed to forget that he was not the Divine Determiner, therefore his constucts are like everyone else's.

PARTIALLY SIGHTED.

That's where we ALL bow in Truth.

enjoy!

s

 

[Danus]

And you are welcome to specifics or spin as well.

I accept some of the Calvin positions, particularly Divine Sovereignty.

Calvin seemed to forget that he was not the Divine Determiner, therefore his constucts are like everyone else's.

PARTIALLY SIGHTED.

That's where we ALL bow in Truth.

enjoy!

s

Ah good. God's Sovereignty is foundational with the Calvin views. What of it do you believe, or how do you relate to it?

 

[smaller]

Ah good. God's Sovereignty is foundational with the Calvin views. What of it do you believe, or how do you relate to it?

Personally I believe Calvin was severely deficient in recognizing the actions of the spirit of disobedience and instead blames MANKIND.

A common malady amongst many theologians.

s

 

[Danus]

Personally I believe Calvin was severely deficient in recognizing the actions of the spirit of disobedience and instead blames MANKIND.

A common malady amongst many theologians.

s

I thought you said I could address a specific? I asked you about your thoughts on the sovereignty of God. Not Calvin. I am specifically asking you about the sovereignty of God. What does that mean to you?

 

[smaller]

I thought you said I could address a specific? I asked you about your thoughts on the sovereignty of God. Not Calvin. I am specifically asking you about the sovereignty of God. What does that mean to you?

That God really is in control of all things, the depths of which none of us will know in full.

And I did address the Calvin spin on this same matter. The proponents of Calvinism or any other forms of determinisms (including my own) must rightly be seen to be the partial views that they factually are.

When believers take up the general understandings and then turn and use it to condemn other believers, it's a sad demonstration in every case.

I believe all Calvinists are saved, so they should have nothing to fear from my sights. I wish NONE ill intent whatsoever, no matter what they 'think' they see.

But people of every sect get 'touchy' when you question their pet doctrines. It's a universal malady among believers.

s

 

[Strangelove]

But people of every sect get 'touchy' when you question their pet doctrines. It's a universal malady among believers.

I've noticed people are quite happy to have their doctrines questioned when the poster is polite and fair.

What they get touchy about is straight up lies and other kinds of dishonest practices and flagrantly rude, aggressive behaviour that certain members employ on a daily basis. Like......every single day.

 

[smaller]

I've noticed people are quite happy to have their doctrines questioned when the poster is polite and fair.

What they get touchy about is straight up lies and other kinds of dishonest practices and flagrantly rude, aggressive behaviour that certain members employ on a daily basis. Like......every single day.

I've made my own conveyance here to every Calvinist.

I believe they are saved. Can't do much better.

Sorry.

 

[Danus]

That God really is in control of all things, the depths of which none of us will know in full.

And I did address the Calvin spin on this same matter. The proponents of Calvinism or any other forms of determinisms (including my own) must rightly be seen to be the partial views that they factually are.

When believers take up the general understandings and then turn and use it to condemn other believers, it's a sad demonstration in every case.

I believe all Calvinists are saved, so they should have nothing to fear from my sights. I wish NONE ill intent whatsoever, no matter what they 'think' they see.

But people of every sect get 'touchy' when you question their pet doctrines. It's a universal malady among believers.

s

No one is getting touchy just frustrated when someone comes in and dogs a belief structure with nothing to offer.

People start threads all the time just to argue yet this OP was intended to answer questions and have a discussion. There is no reason to just bad mouth something and run away then come back and bad mouth something again and run away again.

If we where all meeting in a room that we all agreed to meet to hold a discussion on the theology of John Calvin I'll bet you any money some of what has been said in here against Calvin would not be said in the same manner.

Trash talk has no value. I'm guilty of it as well at times but it's a pointless thing to do. So, if you will, let's look at what you said about the Sovereignty of God. Let's just relax.

You said; "That God really is in control of all things, the depths of which none of us will know in full."

I think we can say a few things about what we do know. Since there are tons of verses that speak to God's sovereignty, but before I go listing them I think it's a fair question to ask, do you think God purposely left out anything more about his sovereignty?

Basically he is......

• Omnipotence - He has the power to do anything He desires (Job 42:2; Luke 1:37).
• Omnipresence - He is in all places, all the time (Jer. 23:24; 1 Kings 8:27; Psalm 90:2).
• Omniscience - He knows all things (1 John 3:20).

The point is, I think the bible is very clear as to just how powerful God is, and there would be no reason for God to say what he has said and assume he has left any more out about his sovereignty. And so, I think we can know just how powerful God is.

 

[Danus]

That God really is in control of all things, the depths of which none of us will know in full.


s

In regards to God's sovereignty and the fact that we all have access to a bible...do you want to stick with this statement?

Do you want to say that we are not able to know the depths of God's sovereignty?

Does anyone else want to back smaller's statement up and agree we can not know in full the depths of God's power?

Smaller, can you expand on how it is we can not know the depths of God?

 

[smaller]

No one is getting touchy just frustrated when someone comes in and dogs a belief structure with nothing to offer.

IF I've questioned anything, it is the 'reflection requirements' that any position brings.

There are many things that are not beneficial reflections. It is not a bad thing to always seek the best of reflections. I believe every believer strives for that.

Trash talk has no value. I'm guilty of it as well at times but it's a pointless thing to do. So, if you will, let's look at what you said about the Sovereignty of God. Let's just relax.

You said; "That God really is in control of all things, the depths of which none of us will know in full."

I think we can say a few things about what we do know. Since there are tons of verses that speak to God's sovereignty, but before I go listing them I think it's a fair question to ask, do you think God purposely left out anything more about his sovereignty?

I believe Paul left us with this certainty that applies to all of us and the 'mark' we are ALL to look for and to press for:

1 Corinthians 13:12
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Then is when we put on permanent incorruption.

Basically he is......

• Omnipotence - He has the power to do anything He desires (Job 42:2; Luke 1:37).
• Omnipresence - He is in all places, all the time (Jer. 23:24; 1 Kings 8:27; Psalm 90:2).
• Omniscience - He knows all things (1 John 3:20).

The point is, I think the bible is very clear as to just how powerful God is, and there would be no reason for God to say what he has said and assume he has left any more out about his sovereignty. And so, I think we can know just how powerful God is.

At some point, yes. When we are equipped.

There are present realities that all of us are factually presently in.

We have all been sown into corruption, weakness, dishonour and a natural body. (1 Cor. 15)

As to the 'entirety' of Gods Sovereignty?

Any casual walk through Trinitarian understandings will at some point bow to the Mystery of Gods Fullness, not being FULLY wrappable by any person or sect. This matter remains by Divine Nature, a Mystery. There remains some segments of the early churches, such as the E.O., who hold the Mystery axiom very closely and well. I appreciate their acknowledgements of that.

Perhaps those who claim full comprehensions (I certainly do NOT) have in fact erected just another common idol of mans making?

just a question.

To those who make those partially sighted seen through darkness matters grounds of condemnation to other believers? No, no favors from me in those types of conveyances. I have zero business sitting in that seat and do NOT appreciate that type of activity in any, nor will I.

Let's call a dog a pony show for what it is.

s

 

[smaller]

In regards to God's sovereignty and the fact that we all have access to a bible...do you want to stick with this statement?

Do you want to say that we are not able to know the depths of God's sovereignty?

Yes, definitely ON RECORD for that.

When any man says they put the ENTIRETY OF GOD in their doctrinal box, I will call foul.

Does anyone else want to back smaller's statement up and agree we can not know in full the depths of God's power?

Smaller, can you expand on how it is we can not know the depths of God?

Because of our present reality.

None of US are GOD. WE can read, reflect, and come to partial conclusions.

Any man who says THEY HAVE IT ALL I would say is probably a liar. When they say "I or my group" has it all and then condemn the balance,

yeah, NOW you have a much closer look at why ALL CHURCHES continue to divide.

enjoy!

smaller

 

[Danus]

IF I've questioned anything, it is the 'reflection requirements' that any position brings.

There are many things that are not beneficial reflections. It is not a bad thing to always seek the best of reflections. I believe every believer strives for that.



I believe Paul left us with this certainty that applies to all of us and the 'mark' we are ALL to look for and to press for:

1 Corinthians 13:12
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Then is when we put on permanent incorruption.


At some point, yes. When we are equipped.

There are present realities that all of us are factually presently in.

We have all been sown into corruption, weakness, dishonour and a natural body. (1 Cor. 15)

As to the 'entirety' of Gods Sovereignty?

Any casual walk through Trinitarian understandings will at some point bow to the Mystery of Gods Fullness, not being FULLY wrappable by any person or sect. This matter remains by Divine Nature, a Mystery. There remains some segments of the early churches, such as the E.O., who hold the Mystery axiom very closely and well. I appreciate their acknowledgements of that.

Perhaps those who claim full comprehensions (I certainly do NOT) have in fact erected just another common idol of mans making?

just a question.

To those who make those partially sighted seen through darkness matters grounds of condemnation to other believers? No, no favors from me in those types of conveyances. I have zero business sitting in that seat and do NOT appreciate that type of activity in any, nor will I.

Let's call a dog a pony show for what it is.

s

So your saying you are not equip to know the full sovereignty of God despite the fact that the bible is replete with all the information anyone would need to know what God would have us know of it?

I would like to think better of you then you are stating of yourself. Since I don't really know what you believe, I'm I to assume you are a Christian?

 

[smaller]

So your saying you are not equip to know the full sovereignty of God despite the fact that the bible is replete with all the information anyone would need to know what God would have us know of it?

Well, let's face a couple of simple facts.

There is no Division between GOD and HIS WORDS.

On this basis I have a great deal of respect for the 'written Word.' But of course the pages of black on white are NOT the SPIRIT of God.

Even though there is WORD, black on white, there is also SPIRIT of WORD.

That is a hard matter to try and contain.

Can you or I or ANY person CONTAIN matters of the OM's you brought forth?

I don't think so. These matters remain for us to RESPECT as to the ETERNAL NATURE of such things.

On a simpler yet basis, why would we desire to get on our little high horses and try to ride out and find the FENCE LINE for Omniscience, Omnipresence and Omnipotence? Would it really PLEASE you to find A FENCE LINE and to say....OH, Looks like that's ALL THERE IS?

To enter the MYSTERY of God in ones HEART is to find NEVER ENDING PEACE.

Matters WITHOUT measures. ETERNAL matters that have NO ENDING.

The desire to CONTAIN any of that is fleshly and carnal (imho.)

I would like to think better of you then you are stating of yourself. Since I don't really know what you believe, I'm I to assume you are a Christian?

Please spare me from the 'checklist.' Yeah, I'm quite fundy in most of my views and had a very real encounter with God in Christ in my heart that continues with me, always, that NO MAN is able to take from me.

enjoy!

smaller

 

[Danus]

Well, let's face a couple of simple facts.

There is no Division between GOD and HIS WORDS.

On this basis I have a great deal of respect for the 'written Word.' But of course the pages of black on white are NOT the SPIRIT of God.

Even though there is WORD, black on white, there is also SPIRIT of WORD.

That is a hard matter to try and contain.

Can you or I or ANY person CONTAIN matters of the OM's you brought forth?

I don't think so. These matters remain for us to RESPECT as to the ETERNAL NATURE of such things.

On a simpler yet basis, why would we desire to get on our little high horses and try to ride out and find the FENCE LINE for Omniscience, Omnipresence and Omnipotence? Would it really PLEASE you to find A FENCE LINE and to say....OH, Looks like that's ALL THERE IS?

To enter the MYSTERY of God in ones HEART is to find NEVER ENDING PEACE.

Matters WITHOUT measures. ETERNAL matters that have NO ENDING.

The desire to CONTAIN any of that is fleshly and carnal (imho.)



Please spare me from the 'checklist.' Yeah, I'm quite fundy in most of my views and had a very real encounter with God in Christ in my heart that continues with me, always, that NO MAN is able to take from me.

enjoy!

smaller

Let me try this again. I have two simple questions.

Smaller...are you a Christian?...... And...do you own a copy of the holly bible?

If you say you are a Christian I'm going to take that as you have a relationship with Christ, a desire to know and walk with him. You believe that Christ was God incarnate and died for your sins and rose again. Can you answer those two simple question with a simple yes or no?

 

[smaller]

Let me try this again. I have two simple questions.

Smaller...are you a Christian?...... And...do you own a copy of the holly bible?

If you say you are a Christian I'm going to take that as you have a relationship with Christ, a desire to know and walk with him. You believe that Christ was God incarnate and died for your sins and rose again. Can you answer those two simple question with a simple yes or no?

Yeah, I knew you'd bring 'the checklist.'

Yes, I'm fully TRINITARIAN. God Himself lived in the flesh of JESUS CHRIST, fully GOD and fully MAN.

Do I own a copy of the BIBLE?

You should be able to find better ways to insult.

s

 

[watchman F]

On this I can only speak for myself. I have said plainly that I do not believe that those who hold to freww will works religion are saved but it has nothing to do with doctrine. The simple fact is that they and I worship different Gods.

You are right you and I do worship two different gods. I worship the one and only true God of scripture, while you worship a false god created in the minds of theologians like John Calcin and others.

 

[Danus]

Yeah, I knew you'd bring 'the checklist.'

Yes, I'm fully TRINITARIAN. God Himself lived in the flesh of JESUS CHRIST, fully GOD and fully MAN.

Do I own a copy of the BIBLE?

You should be able to find better ways to insult.

s

Why do you think I'm insulting you? I'm just asking so that we might have a conversation. Honestly, I can't tell what your belief structure is by what I've seen of your post and I thought we where going to talk about the sovereign of God, so I first need needed to know if you profess the Christian faith and if you have a copy of the bible. You said you are and you do. Good.

 

[Danus]

So Smaller, back to the sovereignty of God. Your a Christian and you have a copy of the bible. What of God would you say you are not aware of that the bible does not tell you about?

What are the missing pieces for you in regards to his power and sovereignty? What's missing?

Please explain your position. Earlier you said we can not know fully...what does that mean? How and what do you think God is hiding of himself or holding back.

I'll be out for a while, but I'll be back this afternoon.

 

[smaller]

So Smaller, back to the sovereignty of God. Your a Christian and you have a copy of the bible. What of God would you say you are not aware of that the bible does not tell you about?

What are the missing pieces for you in regards to his power and sovereignty? What's missing?

Please explain your position. Earlier you said we can not know fully...what does that mean? How and what do you think God is hiding of himself or holding back.

I'll be out for a while, but I'll be back this afternoon.

John 3:34
For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

 

[mlqurgw]

You are right you and I do worship two different gods. I worship the one and only true God of scripture, while you worship a false god created in the minds of theologians like John Calcin and others.

I am sorry to hear that.