What do Calvinists really believe?

[smaller]

I saw it. It makes no sense to speak of the unbeliever in that way so I figured you may have made a typo.

What I wrote is the essence of 'common' or 'prevenient' Grace upon unbelievers.

Effectively MEANINGLESS workings of GOD for 'eternal effect' in such.

 

[smaller]

Calvinists believe that God COULD save everyone, but CHOOSES not to do so.

Which also means God made unbelieving people for the sole purposes of burning them alive in hell forever and ever.

Yea or nay?

 

[smaller]

Calvinists believe that Gods burning people alive in hell forever is A GLORIOUS thing for which HE IS TO BE PRAISED.

YET this declaration is NOT loudly PROCLAIMED for fear of driving off ADHERENTS.

amen?

 

[smaller]

Calvinists believe that even if they as a saved ELECT do murder, THEIR SIN of murder is forgiven.

Yea or nay?

 

[Danus]

So says you. I would suggest that the number of Calvinists is SUBSTANTIALLY higher from being BORN into a Calvin household.

And of course at least ONE supposed Calvinist poster in this thread has openly condemned all non-Calvinist BELIEVERS to eternal hell, in essence saying that there are NO elect among NON-Calvinists.

The other dude, mlqurgw declined to go on record and was feigned great offense at my request for an answer and chose NOT to answer, which of course IS an answer.

Soooo, that brings up another good one....

Do HIGH Calvinists CONDEMN all other believers who do NOT hold to their doctrines to eternal hell?

Yea or nay?

I don't know. I can only speak to what I know, or can quickly research, of John Calvin and the reformist view of Christianity.

I can tell you what I think in terms of other Christian views that are not of the reformation. There is this big Roman organization that some believe are doomed to hell, but I'd say not.

I've known of one poster on this thread who has been condemned to hell by another poster yet to show up here who definitely does not hold to any of Calvin views.

As for high Calvinist, low Calvinist ...sideways Calvinist... Look I find it funny that anyone would pigeonhole themselves, or other Christians, into any one theologists view. We are really talking about the bible and Christianity. The teachings of God's word through Christ. Calvin had some important things to say, but he's not the first to say them. He's an understudy at best.

Paul spoke of the sovereignty of God and predestination. Augustine "of hippo" had a few things to say. Luther made quite a stink for some....why just pick on Calvin? all these guys are in heaven in virtual agreement.

If your going to condemn Calvin for his biblical views then your also going to have to take down the entire reform movement and rewrite the apostolic age to fit your view less what the bible says. That is, if your view is that of Pelagianism and even Pelagius denied much of his own views.

 

[smaller]

I can tell you what I think in terms of other Christian views that are not of the reformation. There is this big Roman organization that some believe are doomed to hell, but I'd say not.

I've known of one poster on this thread who has been condemned to hell by another poster yet to show up here who definitely does not hold to any of Calvin views.

Yes, a very unfortunate state of 'heart.'

At least the RCC only delivers heretics (any outside their sect who knowingly publically disagree with them) only to the threshold of hell without an actual 'toss in.' Perhaps they consider that a nobler venture?

Paul spoke of the sovereignty of God and predestination. Augustine "of hippo" had a few things to say. Luther made quite a stink for some....why just pick on Calvin? all these guys are in heaven in virtual agreement.

I would certainly agree with that. Although a 'Calvinist' can not make that statement nor can an RCC member. Oh well. Better they not know... and keep 'em guessin'.

If your going to condemn Calvin for his biblical views then your also going to have to take down the entire reform movement and rewrite the apostolic age to fit your view less what the bible says. That is, if your view is that of Pelagianism and even Pelagius denied much of his own views.

It's a discussion of reflections. Nothing more. My personal dislike is only for the very POOR reflections that are forced from the positions. They are certainly welcome to those types of reflections. There are better and looking forward to THE PERFECT REFLECTION.

I'm trying to polish up the reflections before the finale so His LIGHT doesn't make me totally blind...Some would say it's too late...

enjoy!

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[watchman F]

Do HIGH Calvinists CONDEMN all other believers who do NOT hold to their doctrines to eternal hell?

Do Calvinists believe that God COULD save everyone, but CHOOSES not to do so?

Do Calvinists believe that even if they as a saved ELECT do murder, THEIR SIN of murder is forgiven?

 

[Strangelove]

The men everywhere that God has commandeth to repent shall repent.

Thats talking about the Gift of repentance is no longer just for jews, but for all men of every nation.

Repentnace is given to all of Gods elect acts 5:

31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Israel here is not just jewish people but all of Gods elect of the seed of Abraham of every nation.

Abraham was made a Father of Many Nations Gen 17:


5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.



Thats the All Men God commands to repent and they will obey Him.

God GAVE repentance to Isreal...

...but He COMMANDED all men every where to repent.

You are proved wrong by scripture again. Why wouldn't God want all men to turn from sin? Even if they are not predestined for salvation? Your position is so morbid dude.

 

[Strangelove]

God Can tell His disciples to love their enemies, and they will, but that does not negate the fact that God does not love everyone, and He hates some i.e rom 9:

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Thats one single person that God hates in the OT.

Scripture is clear that God loves all His creation.

 

[savedbygrace57]

strangelove:

Why wouldn't God want all men to turn from sin?

Because He created them as vessels of wrath and they are to fit themselves for destruction. rom 9:


21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

 

[savedbygrace57]

Thats one single person that God hates in the OT.

Scripture is clear that God loves all His creation.

Esau is one person, but represents all the Esau's of the world who are made as vessels of wrath and hated by God, that is rejected for salvation, and created for His Glory to be punished for their sins.

God hates all the workers of iniquity ! ps 5:

5The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity

So all workers of iniquity are excluded from His Love, which He has for His Sheep, His Church, who also are sinners by nature, but they are Loved while sinners, but not so with the workers of iniquity, the non elect..

 

[Strangelove]

Esau is one person, but represents all the Esau's of the world who are made as vessels of wrath and hated by God, that is rejected for salvation, and created for His Glory to be punished for their sins.

God hates all the workers of iniquity ! ps 5:

5The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity

So all workers of iniquity are excluded from His Love, which He has for His Sheep, His Church, who also are sinners by nature, but they are Loved while sinners, but not so with the workers of iniquity, the non elect..

That is Old Testament poetry.

You got anything from the New Covenant? Stuff that applys to Christians.

How 'bout Jesus' words?

 

[Strangelove]

Because He created them as vessels of wrath and they are to fit themselves for destruction. rom 9:


21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Just because some people have been pre-ordfained to carry out specific destructive acts doesn't mean that they cant repent from sin in general.

Do you deny God commanded ALL MEN EVERY WHERE to repent?

 

[mlqurgw]

Yes, a very unfortunate state of 'heart.'

At least the RCC only delivers heretics (any outside their sect who knowingly publically disagree with them) only to the threshold of hell without an actual 'toss in.' Perhaps they consider that a nobler venture?


I would certainly agree with that. Although a 'Calvinist' can not make that statement nor can an RCC member. Oh well. Better they not know... and keep 'em guessin'.


It's a discussion of reflections. Nothing more. My personal dislike is only for the very POOR reflections that are forced from the positions. They are certainly welcome to those types of reflections. There are better and looking forward to THE PERFECT REFLECTION.

I'm trying to polish up the reflections before the finale so His LIGHT doesn't make me totally blind...Some would say it's too late...

enjoy!

smaller

You have dine nothing but twisted what you think we believe into a monstosity in order to put it in as bad a light as you can conjure up. That is a subtle form of dishonesty.

 

[mlqurgw]

Do HIGH Calvinists CONDEMN all other believers who do NOT hold to their doctrines to eternal hell?

No they do not. On this I can only speak for myself. I have said plainly that I do not believe that those who hold to freww will works religion are saved but it has nothing to do with doctrine. The simple fact is that they and I worship different Gods. Doctrien isn't salvation Christ is. I love the doctrines of grace but I have known many dead Calvinists. Doctrien that isn't vitally connected to Christ is dead doctrine no matter how correct it is. I love the dress my wife wears but I don't sit and look at it hanging in the closet. The dress is worthless unless my wife is wearing it. Christ is what makes doctrine beautiful. Calvinism isn't salvation but it is the truth of the Gospel.

Do Calvinists believe that God COULD save everyone, but CHOOSES not to do so?

That is a very poor way of putting it. Which is why smaller did it. He intended to build a straw man from it. Calvinists believe that we all deserve damnation and it is a wonder that God saves any of us.

Do Calvinists believe that even if they as a saved ELECT do murder, THEIR SIN of murder is forgiven?

Yes but for Biblical reasons. Again smaller emphsized a minute point that in order to blow it out of proportion and make it a monster. Calvinists believe that all the sin of the elect is foregiven because the blood of Jesus purged our sin. What they also believe is that if you commit murder after being born again you likely were never a true believer.

 

[mondar]

Is this open to anyone? Or are you answering questions for those who are not Calvinists already?

LOL, yesterday morning after 8AM, I made the 2nd post. I come back and there is 11 pages of posting to go through. Just the sheer volume of writing yesterday is interesting.

What does this mean? People really do not know much about what Calvinists believe?

 

[smaller]

You have dine nothing but twisted what you think we believe into a monstosity in order to put it in as bad a light as you can conjure up. That is a subtle form of dishonesty.

You are welcome to address 'specifics' in any of my posts.

or

You are welcome to spin without specifics. Common ploy.

Sorry.

s

 

[Danus]

LOL, yesterday morning after 8AM, I made the 2nd post. I come back and there is 11 pages of posting to go through. Just the sheer volume of writing yesterday is interesting.

What does this mean? People really do not know much about what Calvinists believe?

Yes I think it's a record of some kind. I'm always up for a little Calvin.

I attended a Presbyterian church for about 10 years until it grew to 7,000 members and I could no longer recognize even the strangers. That and they switched the Star-bucks coffee to a local brand. :p (Kidding)

I grew more in those 10 years then ever before, but I just stuck with the doctrines taught. (heavy on Calvin) I was a classic Sunday Christian up until about 3 years ago when I decided to actually read more of my bible than a verse or two along with the sermon.

Today I belong to a non-denominational church. The good part is we have a great church for fellowship with many types of backgrounds. My kids love it, we have cool music and it's very energetic with a young feel, but the bad part is we walk a fine line on doctrine. Seem to gloss over the hard issues a little in sermons regarding salvation, but it's still biblicaly based.

I supplement and back up what my kids get with a spoon full of Calvin.

 

[mlqurgw]

LOL, yesterday morning after 8AM, I made the 2nd post. I come back and there is 11 pages of posting to go through. Just the sheer volume of writing yesterday is interesting.

What does this mean? People really do not know much about what Calvinists believe?

Please correct any errors I might have made explaining the Calvinist position. Or feel free to expand anything I have said. I welcome your input.

 

[Danus]

You are welcome to address 'specifics' in any of my posts.

or

You are welcome to spin without specifics. Common ploy.

Sorry.

s

There are no specifics. It;s all over the map and if someone answered you you'd just change it and not address it. I'm not sure a rational discussion is possible within your agenda. Why don't you start your own thread and just call it, "How to misunderstand Calvinism". Whatever you put in it should be fine.