"What do you want from God?" An issue of "belief".

[JoJo]

It is true that, without faith, it is impossible to have a relationship with Christ. But I believe if you are willing to ask for faith, then one day you will find it. I pray that day comes for you.

Your signature line says "De-converted......from Christianity." But, in my opinion at least, I don't think that is accurate. Being a Christian is about having a relationship with Christ, and from what you say, you have never had that. So perhaps you were more of an observer of Christian principles. But in order to be de-converted from something, you had to actually have been it.

 

[justvisiting]

I am not going to reply to anything specific here. Only say a prayer for those that are entangled in disbelief. The very fact of our existence is a miraculous thing. There isn't a professor around that is going to convince me that the millions of reactions that occur in the human body are some fluke of evolution. They are self-deluded. In fact most of them don't even agree with each other. If a person can come to the realization that there is a God. It is no problem to understand that He could have made it all in the blink of an eye.
All I can do is pray that faith will smack the unbeliever, right on the head. and give them a wake up.
It would be the best thing to happen to them, otherwise, they will just continue in their own self-torment. God can forgive many things. The one thing that is most offensive to Him...is the denial that He exists. Redemption is offered...freely. To those that refuse it. It is their own fault.
I rebuke the wickedness in the faithless heart...and pray God would wipe the blindness from their eyes to acknowledge Him in His righteousness and truth.
Are we free brothers and sisters in Christ. We are free indeed. We are not in bondage to belief. We rejoice in it. God is there...and He loves us.

 

[Orion]

I changed my signature. Does that meet your approval more?

IF "a personal relationship" is what a Christian is, then I probably WAS just "an observer". I read the Bible, prayed, went to church, . . . but when I prayed, I usually felt nothing when I got up. I would have my heart strings pulled from time to time in a message or even reading the Bible, but I can have my heart strings pulled by watching an episode of one of my favorite TV series. So. . . .

I guess if you all are correct, then I'm doomed because of the way God made me. How nice of him.

 

[Orion]

I'm going to cut your post and respond . . .

...There isn't a professor around that is going to convince me that the millions of reactions that occur in the human body are some fluke of evolution. They are self-deluded. If a person can come to the realization that there is a God.

It is interesting that you use the term "deluded" when they say the same about those who believe in a God. I'm not an atheist, myself, . . . but as far as "delusions" go, believing in a process is far different then believing in an unseen, unfelt, unheard magical being. Just saying....

All I can do is pray that faith will smack the unbeliever, right on the head. and give them a wake up. It would be the best thing to happen to them, otherwise, they will just continue in their own self-torment. God can forgive many things. I rebuke the wickedness in the faithless heart...and pray God would wipe the blindness from their eyes to acknowledge Him in His righteousness and truth.
Are we free brothers and sisters in Christ. We are free indeed. We are not in bondage to belief. We rejoice in it. God is there...and He loves us.

And when this doesn't happen (God wiping the blindness, . . . smacking the unbeliever on the head, etc.), who is to blame?

The one thing that is most offensive to Him...is the denial that He exists. Redemption is offered...freely. To those that refuse it. It is their own fault.

It's hugely interesting to me that God would hold SUCH offense at a "thought crime", especially when there is no proof of any existance, unseen, unfelt, unheard, . . . relying soley on a book, written by men, and seeing many other religions who all claim that THEY are correct, . . . . . . .yet hold someone accountable for this obvious problem? . . . . NO, it is NOT that person's fault if they cannot "believe" in that which [at best] man has completely screwed up. AND, unless God gives a person a "measure of faith", how can that person BE accountable?? If I am unable to RECOGNIZE this "personal relationship", and that is the way God made me, . . . then I'm not going to accept any blame for that!

 

[justvisiting]

Well, first God didn't make you that way. A fallen nature did. Secondly, there are ambassadors for Christ right here. We speak with the authority that God himself has given us.
You need to forget about the mixed up things in your head...and simply accept Him. The gospel is for even the simplest of mind (as children). There is nothing that Christ has refused you. He is an understanding Savior.
You simply need to take a step, that is within the bounds of ALL men. I pray the Lord will take the blindness and rebelliousness from your heart...and open your mind to the truth that... yes, He is the Creator of the heavens and the earth...and no, He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked...but would have all men and women come to Salvation.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
This is my prayer for you. Do you see anything hindering you. Is God saying no. On the contrary...He is saying, yes. It's just a step of faith. That is what pleases God. A step of faith.

 

[JoJo]

I changed my signature. Does that meet your approval more?

IF "a personal relationship" is what a Christian is, then I probably WAS just "an observer". I read the Bible, prayed, went to church, . . . but when I prayed, I usually felt nothing when I got up. I would have my heart strings pulled from time to time in a message or even reading the Bible, but I can have my heart strings pulled by watching an episode of one of my favorite TV series. So. . . .

I am sorry. I did not mean for you to think I disapproved of your signature. I was only trying to point out that you obviously aren't converting from true Christianity, where one has a relationship with Christ.

I guess if you all are correct, then I'm doomed because of the way God made me. How nice of him.

I do not want to believe that God has not chosen you. I want to believe that He loves you and is waiting for the day when you are willing to relinquish all to Him in faith. I am encouraged by your presence here, for one, by this conversation and by the fact that you are at least willing to admit that God made you. Orion, you are in my prayers.

 

[Orion]

Well, first God didn't make you that way. A fallen nature did. Secondly, there are ambassadors for Christ right here. We speak with the authority that God himself has given us.
You need to forget about the mixed up things in your head...and simply accept Him. The gospel is for even the simplest of mind (as children). There is nothing that Christ has refused you. He is an understanding Savior.
You simply need to take a step, that is within the bounds of ALL men. I pray the Lord will take the blindness and rebelliousness from your heart...and open your mind to the truth that... yes, He is the Creator of the heavens and the earth...and no, He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked...but would have all men and women come to Salvation.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
This is my prayer for you. Do you see anything hindering you. Is God saying no. On the contrary...He is saying, yes. It's just a step of faith. That is what pleases God. A step of faith.

You speak as YOU have been taught, as were they before you, those who taught them were taught what they passed on as well. If you had been born in a Muslim country, you would have been trying to get me to turn my life over to Allah.

This has NOTHING to do with "rebellion". I have no problem with God, IF God took a REAL step my way. Then explain stuff in the Old Testament.

You keep telling to "have faith", "take a step of faith", but you must not realize that not everyone has the same biological makeup as you. Not everyone has a propensity to "accept things on faith", and even if I could "have faith", that would still not be at all "personal" to me as far as relationships go.

And yes, God makes us the way we are, . . . or did he ONLY knit one person in his mother's womb?

 

[Orion]

I am sorry. I did not mean for you to think I disapproved of your signature. I was only trying to point out that you obviously aren't converting from true Christianity, where one has a relationship with Christ.

I do not want to believe that God has not chosen you. I want to believe that He loves you and is waiting for the day when you are willing to relinquish all to Him in faith. I am encouraged by your presence here, for one, by this conversation and by the fact that you are at least willing to admit that God made you. Orion, you are in my prayers.

I just changed it because it really DOES reflect things more accurately for me.

And God hasn't chosen me in the same way he chose you. And it is true that I'm comfortable with there being a God, but I just don't believe that I can be "his child". And with the many biblical issues I have, I'm not really sure I would want to be.

I DO appreciate your care about me, though, JoJo.

 

[justvisiting]

Well JoJo
I'll leave it to you. Don't know what Orion's issues are...but you and I both know what she's missing. The Lord bless you in your desire to help "Orion".

 

[JoJo]

All I can do is pray for Orion (he) and try to share what it means to experience the joy, peace and security of God's love. God is so very loving and He doesn't want for any to be lost.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

orion


i know that you say there that you do not believe that he chose you the same way he chose the person you were speaking with and that you do not even know if you could be his child. before i knew him i also did not think i could be, nor did i want to be his child. there is nothing about God in my life to even make me believe he chose me for anything.the thing is we only see ourselves in today, we do not have any ability to really know what we will be like tommorow. You will have a day when you are so close to the Father God and have such love for the Lord Jesus that you will remember today when you were so far from Him and be thankful that He knows beyond what we know.

I ask that all of the beleivers here speaking with orion would join me in faith for his salvation. Our Lord is faithful to hear us and answer our prayers and faith!

 

[JoJo]

I ask that all of the beleivers here speaking with orion would join me in faith for his salvation. Our Lord is faithful to hear us and answer our prayers and faith!

:amen

 

[AAA]

I was only trying to point out that you obviously aren't converting from true Christianity, where one has a relationship with Christ.

1. What authority says/writes that true Christianity can be distinguished from false Christianity by the presence of a relationship with Christ?

Here's the definition of a Christian from M-W on-line dictionary:

Main Entry: 1Chris·tian
Pronunciation: \ˈkris-chən, ˈkrish-\
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin christianus, adjective & noun, from Greek christianos, from Christos
Date: 1526
1 a : one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ b (1) : disciple 2 (2) : a member of one of the Churches of Christ separating from the Disciples of Christ in 1906 (3) : a member of the Christian denomination having part in the union of the United Church of Christ concluded in 1961
2 : the hero in Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress

I don't see "relationship with Christ" there. As far as I know, a Christian is one who believes that Christ is God and died for the salvation of their soul. Period.

2. If this "relationship" is what you believe identifies true Christianity, can you define what constitutes a relationship between a human and an undetectable entity beyond the leap of faith that has been described as necessary for said relationship? Perhaps you can give some examples of true relationships with Christ and false relationships with Christ. How might one who believes herself to be a true Christian recognize that she doesn't have a real relationship with Him, and is therefore actually a false Christian?

 

[NIGHTMARE]

I am sorry. I did not mean for you to think I disapproved of your signature. I was only trying to point out that you obviously aren't converting from true Christianity, where one has a relationship with Christ.

I do not want to believe that God has not chosen you. I want to believe that He loves you and is waiting for the day when you are willing to relinquish all to Him in faith. I am encouraged by your presence here, for one, by this conversation and by the fact that you are at least willing to admit that God made you. Orion, you are in my prayers.

I just changed it because it really DOES reflect things more accurately for me.

And God hasn't chosen me in the same way he chose you. And it is true that I'm comfortable with there being a God, but I just don't believe that I can be "his child". And with the many biblical issues I have, I'm not really sure I would want to be.

I DO appreciate your care about me, though, JoJo.

Biblical issues??????

 

[Orion]

AAA, good points! It comes from a mindset that "if you don't have a life changing experience, you were probably not saved". It is a very fundamentalistic doctrine. At one time I fully believed and agreed with all the christian doctrines, . . . well not the "filling of the spirit with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues". . . but I fully believed all these things. Yet, they would say that "I wasn't ever actually a Christian".

NIGHTMARE, those "Biblical Issues" are for another topic.

 

[Free]

One doesn't need a life-changing experience but one's life should be completely changed.

 

[NIGHTMARE]

AAA, good points! It comes from a mindset that "if you don't have a life changing experience, you were probably not saved". It is a very fundamentalistic doctrine. At one time I fully believed and agreed with all the christian doctrines, . . . well not the "filling of the spirit with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues". . . but I fully believed all these things. Yet, they would say that "I wasn't ever actually a Christian".

NIGHTMARE, those "Biblical Issues" are for another topic.

Ok when or if you decide to share il respond..........

 

[Orion]

I probably won't. I've heard the christian responses many times, . . . and I prefer people finding their own info out, if they desire to.

 

[Orion]

One doesn't need a life-changing experience but one's life should be completely changed.

Ummmmm. . . .. . . . huh? If someone's life completely changes, wouldn't that be a life-changing experience? :gah

 

[Free]

One doesn't need a life-changing experience but one's life should be completely changed.

Ummmmm. . . .. . . . huh? If someone's life completely changes, wouldn't that be a life-changing experience? :gah

Not necessarily. There may be no single experience that one has, although many do. It might be little things that change over a period of time--swearing, drinking, movie preferences, etc. The point is that over a long period of time one should be able to notice many such little changes, it need not be an immediate stop in drug use with no withdraw symptoms or something like that; it need not be some amazing, jaw-dropping, surreal, spiritual experience.