What does it mean for the Christian to stumble?

[JLB]

I'm pretty sure if believers hear that message from you, and they then stop holding fast the word thinking they are still saved, it is you who have caused them to stumble.

Yes sir, it is clearly the false teaching that causes one to stumble.


JLB

 

[Kidron]

Lovely.
Are you purposely choosing to simply restate your argument and not address the two points I brought up about your argument?

...

-

1st Peter 1:3,4
'"""according to GOD's MERCY, = HE SAVED US".....Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy >>GOD has given us the new birth<<< into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,..and into an inheritance that >>>>can never perish, spoil or fade<<<. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you""

JB, this verse is explaining to you, specifically, why you are saved, who did it, and how you can never lose it.
1st) , Its Gods mercy given to you that saved you. ( not you keeping faith)......
2nd, GOD has given you the new birth.....and you cant be "unborn" again.
3rd...Salvation (Heavenly Inheritance) can never perish (you cant lose it)......as its "KEPT"" (By Jesus,= you are "IN CHRIST")....
So, that eternally settles it in Heaven, so that also eternally settles it on earth..
Try to get it now settled in your own doctrine and heart, JB..... so that you begin to agree with God, instead of trying to stumble believers here by trying to convince them that they have to keep themselves saved....
Galatians 1:8
And remember, its """""JESUS, "who is the author and finisher of our FAITH"..........and NOT YOU...
And its GOD who.... "began a good work in your and will COMPLETE IT."........ NOT YOU.
So, TRUST GOD through the Blood of Jesus, to complete your salvation, just like He said He would.
You can Trust HIM, JB........to finish what He started in you.
-

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So, TRUST GOD through the Blood of Jesus, to complete your salvation, just like He said He would.
You can Trust HIM, JB........to finish what He started in you.

Okay, just tell us how you saying 'TRUST GOD through the Blood of Jesus' is different from 'having faith'. Then maybe your argument will begin to make sense.

And then explain how me telling believers to continue in their faith (that is, trust in God) is me causing them to stumble, while you telling them they can stop believing in God altogether is not you causing them to stumble.

 

[JLB]

You can Trust HIM, JB........to finish what He started in you.

Amen, I agree. It is in trusting in Him to finish what He started, that we are saved.

How about if we stop trusting in Him to finish what He started, and turn to the law of Moses to finish what He started?

Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect [complete: finished] by the flesh? Galatians 3:3

If a person becomes born again, and receives the Holy Spirit, then later becomes circumcised and begins to keep the law of Moses, because a false apostle or teacher, compels them to do so saying; you must become circumcised and keep the law to be saved...
is that person still trusting in Christ to finish the work in them?

Do you understand that is the context that is used here, and in Hebrews, and in the parable of the Sower, which says...

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14

These Hebrews were under pressure to turn away or depart from Christ, under intense persecution that included death.

This is exactly what Jesus warned His disciple about.

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

Same Greek word used here as in Hebrews 3:12

Fall away; depart - Strong's G868 - aphistēmi

1. to make stand off, cause to withdraw, to remove
   1. to excite to revolt
2. to stand off, to stand aloof
   1. to go away, to depart from anyone
   2. to desert, withdraw from one
   3. to fall away, become faithless
   4. to shun, flee from
   5. to cease to vex one
   6. to withdraw one's self from, to fall away
   7. to keep one's self from, absent one's self from

Matthew says it this way -

20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. Matthew 13:20-21



JLB

 

[Kidron]

Okay, just tell us how you saying 'TRUST GOD through the Blood of Jesus' is different from 'having faith'. Then maybe your argument will begin to make sense.

-
Jethro Bodine......If you can realize, if you can understand that Eternal Salvation of a human being, is accomplished BY GOD the very instant they believed, then you will stop worrying about saving yourself by "keep believing".

Thats how simple it is for you to turn from Galatians 1:8 to believing Romans 3:21- 28 & Romans 4:5
That is how easy it is for you to turn from Galatians 1:8 to believing Romans 4:8
That is how simple it is for you to turn from Galatians 1:8 to believing Hebrews 8:12
That is how easy it is for you to turn from Galatians 1:8 to believing Hebrews 9:12 & 9:26
That is how simple it is for you to turn from Galatians 1:8 to believing Hebrews 12:2
That is how you stop teaching something cursed by God, and start teaching the TRUTH, = Philippians 1:6
So, as soon as you stop trying to save yourself, you'll then no longer try to stumble believers on a Christian Forum.
I Hope you will be able to change today.
God is certainly willing to help you see the Light , if you are willing to open your eyes and see it.
I just gave you 14 verses that all agree, that all teach that the Blood of Jesus saves you through redemption, and God keeps you saved once HE SAVED YOU.
Are 14 verses enough for you, or will 4400 not be enough for you?
You decide, as im done here.


K
<><

 

[Jethro Bodine]

im done here.

Promise?

 

[for_his_glory]

I have to be honest mate. There is some stuff in the hyper-grace message that really helped me and bought me back.

Even Michael Brown who has issues with this theology has agreed that Dr Paul Ellis and he agree that they both hate sin and focus on Christ" Yet Mr Brown still calls him a brother in Christ.

I have to be honest there is some stuff that really helped me and some stuff I do not agree with. I have not got carried away with some of the stuff they say. Maybe God has protected my mind whilst really wanting to get to know him and his ways.

If you can show me that they preach "you can renounce Jesus as Lord, or become a homoexual or murderer or take the mark of the beast and still be saved" then I will read it. As said though I can't say I've seen that.

Joseph Price is the most popular teacher of hyper grace and teaches that we do not have to confess our sins as repentance and confession is not necessary any more after our Spiritual rebirth as the blood of Christ has already covered our sin, past present and future and the Holy Spirit will never convict us of our sin. This is a false teaching and goes against every scripture that calls for us to repent and confess we are a sinner needing Gods grace. Hyper grace teaches homosexuality and lesbianism are now accepted and the message of holiness and heterosexuality are compromised. These false teachers mix truth and error together as those who are still young in the word of God can easily be deceived. Anyone who does not believe what they teach are called legalistic as they come against the teachings of Joseph Price.

Here is a good link that explains all about hyper grace.

http://www.johnhamelministries.org/Hyper_Grace_Dangerous_Error.htm

 

[Free]

First, why assume the NT was written in Hebrew?

Two reasons, the simple evidence comes from my website, based on Jeff Benner's research, click here http://spiritualsprings.org/ss-1092.htm

Second, a detailed extremely detailed study of the Greek by Christopher Lancaster in a pdf document called "Was the New Testament Really Written in Greek?

A Concise Compendium of the Many Internal and External Evidences of Aramaic Peshitta Primacy "

is a step is the right direction, showing Greek was not primary , but Aramaic or Hebrew was. This research is relatively young, so many other websites speak differently. His examples shows dozens of errors in the Greek, not errors in doctrine thinking, but slight differences due to primacy of language.

It's all conjecture. Much of the so-called evidence is weak.

This is why I consider the Hebrew primacy first. Not a translated word. And I only do this when scholars question...for a child wanting salvation, any translation is OK, my faviourite is the King James in English.

You "consider the Hebrew primacy first" and "not a translated word," yet you cannot even get back to the Hebrew without relying on translated words. This is entirely backwards and will not work. You either have Hebrew manuscripts in which to translate into English or you don't, and if you don't, you cannot use the English to translate backwards into Hebrew (see below).

Second, since it is assumed that the NT was written in Hebrew, then you must also assume what word was used.

The bridge used for Greek koine translations is the LXX, so one must find a cross reference, or fail to read the NT Greek word properly....

But you did not find a cross-reference. You gave:

"For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:29
Ro 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. KJV
Heb 7:21 The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec quoting from OT
Ps 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent "nacham,", Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek."

However, the Greek word translated as "irrevocable" in Rom. 11:29 is not the same Greek word translated as "repent" in Heb. 7:21. Not only is that not a valid cross-reference, it is a perfect example of why you cannot translate from the English into Hebrew.

We have Greek manuscript evidence, a lot of it. There is absolutely no reason to try and translate the English to Hebrew.

But in doing that, there is no basis for selecting that particular word.

I agree sometimes it is difficult

It's not that it's difficult, it's that it makes no sense. There is no basis nor any reason for interpreting the NT in this manner.

Third, all the other words in context must also be assumed, so one could make a verse say whatever they wanted. What are the assumed words for "gifts" and "calling"?

If the whole verse is questioned then yes all words would have to be looked up, otherwise as in this study only one word is allowed to make a doctrine

If one wants to assume that the NT was written in Hebrew, then when trying to understand what a verse says, one must also have the entire verse translated into Hebrew. How can one understand what a verse says if most of the words are translated from Greek and one is translated from Hebrew? Of course, as I have shown, translating the English into Hebrew won't work anyway.

But another problem here is a lack of understanding of how interpretation works. Since most words have more than one meaning, you cannot just go to a lexicon and pick a meaning. The correct meaning of a word is based on the relationship between all the words, the context. This is why one could not translate just a single word; it all must be translated.

 

[for_his_glory]

-

Thats how simple it is for you to turn from Galatians 1:8 to believing Romans 3:21- 28 & Romans 4:5
That is how easy it is for you to turn from Galatians 1:8 to believing Romans 4:8
That is how simple it is for you to turn from Galatians 1:8 to believing Hebrews 8:12
That is how easy it is for you to turn from Galatians 1:8 to believing Hebrews 9:12 & 9:26
That is how simple it is for you to turn from Galatians 1:8 to believing Hebrews 12:2
That is how you stop teaching something cursed by God, and start teaching the TRUTH, = Philippians 1:6
K
<><

Are we then to ignore or even rip out those scriptures you have posted here..............God forbid!!!

I have OT and confirming NT scripture the Holy Spirit gave me last night to give to you at the right moment such as this.

Jeremiah 51:44 And I will punish Bel in Babylon, and I will bring forth out of his mouth that which he hath swallowed up: and the nations shall not flow together any more unto him: yea, the wall of Babylon shall fall. 45 My people, go ye out of the midst of her, and deliver ye every man his soul from the fierce anger of the LORD.

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

 

[for_his_glory]

-
-
But im not telling them then not to continue to Trust in Christ.
Im showing them that the BLOOD atonement is something that God has applied to them, and that THIS ALONE keeps them saved.
Not Faith.
Listen fella, where would faith be, if there was no Cross.?
Where is Faith, is there is no GRACE?
Where is Faith, if there is no BLOOD shed on a Cross?
Where is Faith, if there no JESUS dying for your sins?
So, all Faith does, it release the completed and finished SALVATION to the Believer.
All Faith does, is release God to redeem YOU based on the Blood of Jesus paying for all your sins.
All Faith does is release God to give you HIS Righteousness as the "Gift of Righteousness".
Faith does not create the Grace of God or the Blodd of Jesus.
All faith does is release GOD to SAVE YOU, and He did the INSTANT you TRUSTED Christ.
See, you are not born again over time, but rather you are born again in an INSTANT....as the new birth does not talk a lifetime to accomplish, ....it happens instantly, when you >>>FIRST BELIEVED<<.

So, you are teaching that Faith saves you and keeps you saved, and God is teaching that Jesus SAVED YOU when you first believed the Gospel, and were born again.
Jesus is your savior, and not your faith.
Jesus is your savior, and not your faith.

JB, I hope you can come to see this very soon, as when you do, you will stop carrying your salvation on your own back, and you will stop trying to put that cross Galatians 1:8 on everyone else.
And that DAY will be a happy day for you, indeed.

There was no cross in the OT nor the indwelling of the Holy Spirit so if it wasn't by faith in believing and trusting God then faithful Abraham and all the generations after him before the cross would be risen to damnation on the last day when Christ returns, John 5:28,29. You might want to study Hebrews Chapter 11 which explains what faith is and quit following what Joseph Price teaches.

 

[JLB]

Joseph Price is the most popular teacher of hyper grace and teaches that we do not have to confess our sins as repentance and confession is not necessary any more after our Spiritual rebirth as the blood of Christ has already covered our sin, past present and future and the Holy Spirit will never convict us of our sin. This is a false teaching and goes against every scripture that calls for us to repent and confess we are a sinner needing Gods grace. Hyper grace teaches homosexuality and lesbianism are now accepted and the message of holiness and heterosexuality are compromised. These false teachers mix truth and error together as those who are still young in the word of God can easily be deceived. Anyone who does not believe what they teach are called legalistic as they come against the teachings of Joseph Price.

Here is a good link that explains all about hyper grace.

http://www.johnhamelministries.org/Hyper_Grace_Dangerous_Error.htm

Thank you for sharing this valuable info.


JLB

 

[for_his_glory]

Thank you for sharing this valuable info.


JLB

My last Pastor said we are sent out to preach the word of God, but also be repairers of the word of God as their are many false prophets out there teaching another gospel deceiving those who have yet a young knowledge of the word of God and can be easily deceived in believing the lies that are being taught.
.
Hyper grace is causing a great falling away from truth and needs to be exposed as the spirit of Jezebel is running rampant in the world.

Rev 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Here is a good link that explains all about hyper grace.

http://www.johnhamelministries.org/Hyper_Grace_Dangerous_Error.htm

Very good read.

I personally do not trust anyone to be a brother or sister who believes in and defends heresy doctrines.....not until they denounce them. They may be genuinely and naively deceived by them, but I can't know if it's simply that, or if they are truly a minister of evil purposely and willingly spreading falseness. So until they denounce popular heretical teachings I do not trust them to be a fellow believer. They have to show me they really are by rejecting these obvious false teachings. Of course, some will hear this to mean I hate them. No, it simply means I will not entrust myself to them as a brother or sister.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

This is exactly the message I got a couple of weeks ago.

 

[for_his_glory]

This is exactly the message I got a couple of weeks ago.

Thank you Jethro for the confirmation as I only found out about hyper grace a few weeks ago when I was called legalistic as they love to use that word when anyone comes against them.

 

[Wrg1405]

Very good read.

I personally do not trust anyone to be a brother or sister who believes in and defends heresy doctrines.....not until they denounce them. They may be genuinely and naively deceived by them, but I can't know if it's simply that, or if they are truly a minister of evil purposely and willingly spreading falseness. So until they denounce popular heretical teachings I do not trust them to be a fellow believer. They have to show me they really are by rejecting these obvious false teachings. Of course, some will hear this to mean I hate them. No, it simply means I will not entrust myself to them as a brother or sister.

It was a good read.

Jethro just so you know I'm not quoting your post to aim my thoughts at you, it's just that your quote I find interesting.

However I will admit that I am confused. In the article quoted above the author does say the following

Out of fairness I must also say that Joseph Prince, the primary teacher of the Hyper-Grace error, has indeed taught some good things about the Word of God from a Pentecostal perspective.

"He has very obviously been a student of my mentor, Dr. Kenneth E. Hagin. He has well-communicated Dr. Hagin’s teachings on the New Birth, the New Creation, Righteousness, the Authority of the Believer, Redemption, the Power of Jesus’ Name and many other faith-based topics popularized by Dr. Hagin over the past 65 years.

We continue this writing by commending the Hyper-Grace Teacher for the way he has clearly communicated these specific truths, serving to change the lives of many.

Michael Brown himself a critic of the hyper-grace movement also praises some of the truths that they teach.
In fact when I googled objections to hyper-grace a lot of those people giving their objections also say the same.

I myself as stated in previous posts have benefited and been released by some of their teachings. However I took the conscious decision a few years ago when I wanted to learn more about grace (that's how I stumbled upon thier website) and God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit to be a Berean and not beleive blindly what I was taught over the years. A lot of damage was done in my life because I did exactly that. Everything they taught I researched from both sides, I did and still do in depth bible study. I will also say that some of their teaching I rejected as being false or taken out of context.

Here is the point I want to make and it is based on your quote.

We all have differences of opinion with certain doctrines(which I opened a post on) that denominations within the global global church will preach. As you know that breaks my heart, because to me denominations can do exactly what the hyper-grace movement is doing. Truth mixed with error. One mans interpretation of error is another mans interpretation of truth.

Some preach baptismal regeneration along with speaking in tongues as evidence of salvation. When I was told that because I did not speak in tongues then I wasn't saved it threw me sideways and messed with my head and ultimately my relationship with God and caused me to withdraw. Now this is true, I've heard it said that you need to start practicing praying in tongues by reciting "She will come on a Honda, start slowly with it then speed it up, when you do then you will get used to speaking something that sounds weird but carry on then God will replace it with tongues" So the whole episode of tongues is another's truth but I now reject that so to them I'm in error and not saved. I however would never say that thier error does not mean they are not saved or a brother. (not saying you believe that)

Baptismal regeneration. I had a conversation with a person who beleived that if you were not baptised you were going to hell. I asked about the thief on the cross. Their response was "He would have have been baptised because John the Baptist went round preaching repent for the kingdom of God is at hand and the whole of Judea and the surrounding region went out and were baptised, confessing their sins so the thief on the cross would have been baptised" Correct me if I'm being harsh but I thought, really would a man who was hanging on a cross because of the sins he had committed really have been baptised? Get real. This man surely had no compunction to confess his sin. I would like to add that I do genuinely believe that all believers should be baptised as soon a possible. It's a spiritual marker.

Trouble is that what we consider heresy a bother/sister could say the same of us. I think also from what I've read in all the above posts and to be honest it's got personal amongst posters, riding rough shot over each other.

I know your heart, I have the same heart. I want to see people believe in Jesus walk with Jesus, talk with Jesus and want to be like Jesus. To turn to him and spend every day they live with him on this earth being with him.

I want the church to preach salvation by faith that then encompasses works as a result of belief rather than to be saved.

I am a OSAS, but I'm not a greasy OSAS person who believes that gives license to do what you want. I do not belive that someone can say "I beleive in Jesus, pray that prayer in one breath and in the next breath say "Right off to a night club to get some nookie" I myself have been incensed and upset with "that's ok I can sleep I can have sex with my girlfriend and it's forgiven" That's abuse of grace. I would say though that I would then talk about Romans 5 leading into Romans 6. If they refused to accept it then I would question their salvation.

So I would like to ask if I beleive in a certain doctrine am I not your brother?

 

[JLB]

It was a good read.

Jethro just so you know I'm not quoting your post to aim my thoughts at you, it's just that your quote I find interesting.

However I will admit that I am confused. In the article quoted above the author does say the following

Out of fairness I must also say that Joseph Prince, the primary teacher of the Hyper-Grace error, has indeed taught some good things about the Word of God from a Pentecostal perspective.

"He has very obviously been a student of my mentor, Dr. Kenneth E. Hagin. He has well-communicated Dr. Hagin’s teachings on the New Birth, the New Creation, Righteousness, the Authority of the Believer, Redemption, the Power of Jesus’ Name and many other faith-based topics popularized by Dr. Hagin over the past 65 years.

We continue this writing by commending the Hyper-Grace Teacher for the way he has clearly communicated these specific truths, serving to change the lives of many.

Michael Brown himself a critic of the hyper-grace movement also praises some of the truths that they teach.
In fact when I googled objections to hyper-grace a lot of those people giving their objections also say the same.

I myself as stated in previous posts have benefited and been released by some of their teachings. However I took the conscious decision a few years ago when I wanted to learn more about grace (that's how I stumbled upon thier website) and God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit to be a Berean and not beleive blindly what I was taught over the years. A lot of damage was done in my life because I did exactly that. Everything they taught I researched from both sides, I did and still do in depth bible study. I will also say that some of their teaching I rejected as being false or taken out of context.

Here is the point I want to make and it is based on your quote.

We all have differences of opinion with certain doctrines(which I opened a post on) that denominations within the global global church will preach. As you know that breaks my heart, because to me denominations can do exactly what the hyper-grace movement is doing. Truth mixed with error. One mans interpretation of error is another mans interpretation of truth.

Some preach baptismal regeneration along with speaking in tongues as evidence of salvation. When I was told that because I did not speak in tongues then I wasn't saved it threw me sideways and messed with my head and ultimately my relationship with God and caused me to withdraw. Now this is true, I've heard it said that you need to start practicing praying in tongues by reciting "She will come on a Honda, start slowly with it then speed it up, when you do then you will get used to speaking something that sounds weird but carry on then God will replace it with tongues" So the whole episode of tongues is another's truth but I now reject that so to them I'm in error and not saved. I however would never say that thier error does not mean they are not saved or a brother. (not saying you believe that)

Baptismal regeneration. I had a conversation with a person who beleived that if you were not baptised you were going to hell. I asked about the thief on the cross. Their response was "He would have have been baptised because John the Baptist went round preaching repent for the kingdom of God is at hand and the whole of Judea and the surrounding region went out and were baptised, confessing their sins so the thief on the cross would have been baptised" Correct me if I'm being harsh but I thought, really would a man who was hanging on a cross because of the sins he had committed really have been baptised? Get real. This man surely had no compunction to confess his sin. I would like to add that I do genuinely believe that all believers should be baptised as soon a possible. It's a spiritual marker.

Trouble is that what we consider heresy a bother/sister could say the same of us. I think also from what I've read in all the above posts and to be honest it's got personal amongst posters, riding rough shot over each other.

I know your heart, I have the same heart. I want to see people believe in Jesus walk with Jesus, talk with Jesus and want to be like Jesus. To turn to him and spend every day they live with him on this earth being with him.

I want the church to preach salvation by faith that then encompasses works as a result of belief rather than to be saved.

I am a OSAS, but I'm not a greasy OSAS person who believes that gives license to do what you want. I do not belive that someone can say "I beleive in Jesus, pray that prayer in one breath and in the next breath say "Right off to a night club to get some nookie" I myself have been incensed and upset with "that's ok I can sleep I can have sex with my girlfriend and it's forgiven" That's abuse of grace. I would say though that I would then talk about Romans 5 leading into Romans 6. If they refused to accept it then I would question their salvation.

So I would like to ask if I beleive in a certain doctrine am I not your brother?

I'm not claiming to answer for him, but am only sharing with you what I see. There is a difference in misinterpreting some scripture and teaching heresy and causing others to stumble.

Heretics Do not inherit the kingdom of God.

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders,drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

Heretics who cause others to go to hell are enemies of Christ and the Gospel and are not brothers.

A brother or sister in Christ who starts off teaching sound doctrine, then is caught up in false doctrine and begins to teach heresy and leads others astry, has returned to being a sinner, and needs to repent and be bright back to the truth or they will be eternally lost.

Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

JLB

 

[Wrg1405]

I'm not claiming to answer for him, but am only sharing with you what I see. There is a difference in misinterpreting some scripture and teaching heresy and causing others to stumble.

Heretics Do not inherit the kingdom of God.

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders,drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

Heretics who cause others to go to hell are enemies of Christ and the Gospel and are not brothers.

A brother or sister in Christ who starts off teaching sound doctrine, then is caught up in false doctrine and begins to teach heresy and leads others astry, has returned to being a sinner, and needs to repent and be bright back to the truth or they will be eternally lost.

Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

JLB

Mate I have to be honest I have no idea what heresy is. I researched it and can't come to a conclusion on its meaning and consequences.

You mention above works of the flesh, not sure why as the works of the flesh are not what a true beleiver would want to walk in.

So as said I would never ever say, it's ok walk in the flesh because you have prayed a prayer that has no meaning.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but you have attributed OSAS as being a lie of Satan that has infiltrated the church. So to to you it must be heresy. That being the case are the OSAS camp going to hell?

 

[Deborah13]

Joseph Price is the most popular teacher of hyper grace

Hyper grace teaches homosexuality and lesbianism are now accepted and the message of holiness and heterosexuality are compromised.

Anyone who does not believe what they teach are called legalistic as they come against the teachings of Joseph Price.

If you or anyone else is interested in TRUTH then they should be interested in what Joseph Prince REALLY teaches about marriage and sexual immorality of ANY kind.

This is one of his regular sermons from 2013 I believe. You can start listening about this subject at about the 23 min. mark or at the 40 min. mark to hear him explicitly state what God's marriage is and that ANY sexual acts outside of God's marriage is sexual immorality, sin. He is a strong teacher against any type of sexual immorality at all.

 

[Deborah13]

Thank you for sharing this valuable info.


JLB

Very good read.

I personally do not trust anyone to be a brother or sister who believes in and defends heresy doctrines.....not until they denounce them. They may be genuinely and naively deceived by them, but I can't know if it's simply that, or if they are truly a minister of evil purposely and willingly spreading falseness. So until they denounce popular heretical teachings I do not trust them to be a fellow believer. They have to show me they really are by rejecting these obvious false teachings. Of course, some will hear this to mean I hate them. No, it simply means I will not entrust myself to them as a brother or sister.

See post #59.