Bible Study What Does It Mean to "Work Out Your Salvation"?

[JLB]

By cessationism, do you mean that since the passing of the Apostles, there are only a few of the gifts of the Holy Spirit for today?

He specifically teaches that Paul, in 1 Corinthians 14:2, was teaching [correcting] these Corinthian pagan Christians that they were speaking to [a pagan] god, and speaking demonic mysteries.

For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. 1 Corinthians 14:2

He has "interpreted" theos in this verse to mean a pagan god, and not God.

God Strong's G2316 - theos -

1. a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities
2. the Godhead, trinity
   1. God the Father, the first person in the trinity
   2. Christ, the second person of the trinity
   3. Holy Spirit, the third person in the trinity
      
3. spoken of the only and true God
   1. refers to the things of God
   2. his counsels, interests, things due to him
4. whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way
   1. God's representative or viceregent
      1. of magistrates and judges

If you don't want to listen to the whole thing, he starts this statement at 10:15


He has openly stated in his "strange fire" conferences that those who speak in tongues or operate in spiritual gifts, or raise their hand to worship God, are operating in a pagan demonic spirit and none of them are saved.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Thanks for your two cents worth. I don't know why it is, that a famed Theologian, such as Dr. MacArthur, and others can have such good theology and spew out error. That really upsets me. By cessationism, do you mean that since the passing of the Apostles, there are only a few of the gifts of the Holy Spirit for today?

When, back in the late 70s, I was a member of MacArthur's teaching tape ministry. I never heard anything "off the wall" that he presented. I was not listening to him when he taught the error on the Blood of Christ. When I did hear about it I didn't like it at all. At some point, I read his book "Charismatic Confusion" which at the time, I was a Baptist dispensational legalistic preacher and agreed with him.

Well, apparently, the God who called me to be a teacher of His Word, didn't like it and in January of 1990 in Florida, God Himself baptized me in the Holy Spirit, as I was going for my morning walk. About a month later, I burst out in "tongues" to my surprise. The Father must have looked at His Son and said, "there, we straightened him out!!" It took that long for tongues to flow thru me because I had, along with MacArthur, taught that tongues were from the devil.

Needless to say, I had a lot of repenting to do, and confession because I did it ignorantly, was greatly appreciated that God forgave me. My entire life changed after that Baptism, especially in the area of loving my fellow man & Brethren.

I know John MacArthur probably started out with exposing the works of darkness that have invaded the "Charismatic Movement", including all the immorality and flakey flopping around under the Kundalini spirit, who is a counterfeit of the Holy Spirit, However, I fear that Mr. MacArthur, who has a great theological mind, has crossed some serious lines, maybe through pride of having such a large following.

I know there are many in the Charismatic movement that have started out with humble beginnings, and grew in stature and influence, and are now teaching false doctrine, and caught up in greed.

It seems some of the most stable and anointed men have started out as Baptist and then later received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Many don't know, but John Osteen started this way right here in Houston, in a barn, and ministered to poor and downcast people on bad side of town, and his ministry grew into a massive church. He was always very loving and solid biblically, but very straight forward.

It's sad that his son Joel, doesn't share the same values.


JLB

 

[Chopper]

Chopper and another Chopper home run

One who runs a race trains first that they will be fit to finish the race knowing all they have done is well within them. When we first came to Christ and started that personal relationship with him through the Spiritual rebirth of John 3:3-6 we were as a baby that needed nourishment. We train ourselves through the word of God as the Holy Spirit was from the beginning and ever more our trainer who gives us instruction how to run that race to obtain the prize of eternal life with the Father. Sometimes our shoelaces come untied and we trip over them, but God will always pick us up, dust us off and set our feet straight again as He knows in the flesh we will never be perfect and only He knows our heart for Him. We are being perfect daily as when we rise from sleep God's righteousness, mercy and grace helps us to crucify this flesh that we keep our blinders on like that of a horse that wears blinders as to keep our path straight so we do not veer off to the left or right of it that we remain pleasing to the Lord in all we do and say.

Thank you my Glory Girl for the Home Run. I liked what you said about the Holy Spirit being our Trainer. Kenneth Wuest said "our new life in Christ is machinery, and the Holy Spirit is the Operator of the machinery." Something like that. I hope you have a great Friday....Love You

 

[Chopper]

He specifically teaches that Paul, in 1 Corinthians 14:2, was teaching [correcting] these Corinthian pagan Christians that they were speaking to [a pagan] god, and speaking demonic mysteries.

For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. 1 Corinthians 14:2

He has "interpreted" theos in this verse to mean a pagan god, and not God.

God Strong's G2316 - theos -

1. a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities
2. the Godhead, trinity
   1. God the Father, the first person in the trinity
   2. Christ, the second person of the trinity
   3. Holy Spirit, the third person in the trinity
3. spoken of the only and true God
   1. refers to the things of God
   2. his counsels, interests, things due to him
4. whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way
   1. God's representative or viceregent
      1. of magistrates and judges

If you don't want to listen to the whole thing, he starts this statement at 10:15


He has openly stated in his "strange fire" conferences that those who speak in tongues or operate in spiritual gifts, or raise their hand to worship God, are operating in a pagan demonic spirit and none of them are saved.


JLB

I appreciate this info. MacArthur has definitely stayed with the old Bob Jones Univ. poison and legalism. I used to be in that camp, but thank God, He Himself brought me out of that mess. I attended a conference, in the 80s put on by Bob Jones and Rodney Bell, where they really thrashed the preachers of the Characteristic movement, and at that time, "secondary separation". I almost stood up and rebuked them with this verse....

1John 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
4:21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

Oh course they would have come back with a twisted version of love.

I still like some of Mac Author's teaching, I'm just picky now, what I study.

 

[JLB]

Here is a great Bible study on this topic that many don't really grasp. Its rather long, but worth reading. It's from, "Grace To You" a teaching by Dr. John MacArthur.
work out your salvation with fear and trembling; ( Philippians 2:12e)

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
Philippians 2:12-13

Thank God, we have the Holy Spirit who empowers us, as well as energizes our will, to both desire and do His good pleasure.

The word "works" in verse 13, helps us to understand this process.

works - Strong's G1754 - energeō -

1. • to be operative, be at work, put forth power
     1. to work for one, aid one
   • to effect
   • to display one's activity, show one's self operative

This is a different word than that from the previous verse which says... work out your own salvation.

work out - Strong's G2716 - katergazomai

1. to perform, accomplish, achieve
2. to work out i.e. to do that from which something results
   1. of things: bring about, result in
3. to fashion i.e. render one fit for a thing

The "working out" is the corresponding action of yielding to and obeying the One who is empowering us to both will [desire] and do [accomplish] His good pleasure.

As God moves upon us, speaks to us, communicates to us from within, He empowers us to carry out the doing of this good pleasure of His.

This is love in action.
This is faith working by love.
God is love.

When God speaks to us, it produces faith.

The outward expression of this obedience is righteousness.

The righteousness of faith.

The working of the obedience of faith, which is both love in action, and righteousness expressed by the action of faith.

Not some "good works" that we just decided to do, but rather the righteousness of obedience, expressed and motivated by love.



JLB

 

[sparrow]

I wouldn't disagree with him as it is taught by certain sects. I have personally witnessed and SADLY participated in more witchcraft, spiritual voodoo, lies and hypocrisy in the realms of christian pentacostalism than can be seen anywhere else on earth. Preachers are right to speak against some of the utter nonsense that goes on in that arena

I will disagree with him.
There is a difference between confronting error and speaking falsehood. And to claim that the Baptism of Fire is no more... that is false.

 

[rthom7]

To work out your own salvation is an interesting theme...thanks Chopper
and great posts by all here, some fine reading....

Ex 14:13 And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the LORD, which he will shew to you to day: for the Egyptians whom ye have seen to day, ye shall see them again no more for ever.

Salvation is something we "see", it is the actions of Jesus changing us personally as He sees fit...

Ac 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Salvation is the NAME by which we are saved.... I remember an OT verse where a Jew was confronted with the Hebrew salvation in a personification context....

note in Matthew

Mt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name YASHA: for he shall Yasha his people from their sins.

Jesus name in Hebrew spelling was a play on the word YASHA, Hebrew named children after Hebrew actions, like Noan means comfort for example... So Jesus name is Salvation....

Jude 1:3 ¶ Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

This verse speaks of the common salvation once presented by eye witnesses of Jesus, has been changed by certain men bent of deceiving people....

So to work out our salvation, may mean to make sure you know Jesus correctly, personally and completely.... remember the foolish virgins in the parable?

The other posts are correct too, I am just adding another dimension

Shalom

 

[smaller]

I will disagree with him.
There is a difference between confronting error and speaking falsehood. And to claim that the Baptism of Fire is no more... that is false.

There is a more interesting Spiritual scriptural principle involved. Wherever the Holy spirit is in action the invisible adverse spiritual powers move quickly in to prove how God set up our system. Mark 4:15. And yes it's quite a real phenom.

Good to hear from you my hawkish friend!

 

[JLB]

Wherever the Holy spirit is in action the invisible adverse spiritual powers move quickly in to prove how God set up our system. Mark 4:15. And yes it's quite a real phenom.

15 And these are the ones by the wayside where the word is sown. When they hear, Satan comes immediately and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts. Mark 4:15

Notice the word "comes" here which denotes an arrival from one place to another... meaning the devil wasn't already present, but arrived from another place.


The Point:
The devil has to come from wherever he is to where the person is hearing the Gospel in order to be able to steal it from the heart of the hearer.

It is by the Spirit, we cast out devils.

And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; Mark 16:17

It is by the Spirit we put to death the deeds of the flesh.

...if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:13

Please explain what you mean by "invisible adverse spiritual powers move quickly in to prove how God set up our system"?

What "system" are you claiming God set up?


JLB

 

[smaller]

What "system" are you claiming God set up?

JLB

Mark 4:15 is a scriptural guarantee.

As to our present state of affairs script-sure shows us we are planted in dishonour, weakness, corruption in a natural failing body. None of these states are removed by faith. The are God's set reality for all natural bodies. 1 Cor. 15:42-45.

To say it isn't so won't mean a thing to those set realties.

 

[JLB]

Mark 4:15 is a scriptural guarantee

Yes, it guarantees that Satan comes from where he is, to where the Gospel is being preached, in order to steal the word.

He is not present with them.

 

[Edward]

Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but only one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may win. Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air; but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified. (1 Cor. 9:24–27)

This is a great topic to study. I've not anything to add, but do have a question.

I wont pursue frictional debate here with respect to your wishes, Brother. But I would appreciate views on what Paul means in v27 above, so I can chew on it with respect to working out my salvation etc..

Btw, a good morning to you all, Brothers & Sisters!

 

[smaller]

Yes, it guarantees that Satan comes from where he is, to where the Gospel is being preached, in order to steal the word.

Brilliant deduction. It's actually a confirmation of the reality of God's construct of people. Gospel sown, Satan follows to resist in them. God lifts whom He Wills.

He is not present with them.

It's internal theft. Therefore the perp is internal. We don't see the perp with flesh eyes. Obviously.

 

[sparrow]

Good to hear from you my hawkish friend!

Good to be back. It's been awhile

 

[smaller]

Good to be back. It's been awhile

Nice to see what you really look like!

 

[sparrow]

LoL,.
Yep that's me.

 

[smaller]

LoL,.
Yep that's me.

You look a little younger than me. I might share a personal photo in private if you promise not to share it.

 

[for_his_glory]

This is a great topic to study. I've not anything to add, but do have a question.

I wont pursue frictional debate here with respect to your wishes, Brother. But I would appreciate views on what Paul means in v27 above, so I can chew on it with respect to working out my salvation etc..

Btw, a good morning to you all, Brothers & Sisters!

And a good afternoon to you me dear brother

 

[for_his_glory]

Brilliant deduction. It's actually a confirmation of the reality of God's construct of people. Gospel sown, Satan follows to resist in them. God lifts whom He Wills.


It's internal theft. Therefore the perp is internal. We don't see the perp with flesh eyes. Obviously.

We might not see Satan for spirit has no flesh or blood, but we can know his attributes as they are everything opposite of the attributes of Christ as Satan can only steal something that is not rooted in us.

Mark 4:17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.

 

[ezra]

Have you heard anything about Dr. MacArthur? Anyway, this teaching here, that I presented, is very good, and thanks again for your wonderful comments.

i listen to him along the way on the radio and computer . he does a good job some areas i do not agree with him on