what does it mean to you .

[Cygnus]

They were elected on the basis of faith, not elected apart from their knowledge and will as some seem to understand election. Election means chosen if I'm understanding correctly. Many are called, but only a few answer the call and become chosen, becoming elected on the basis of their faith.

The problem with that is....God was still in charge. FAITH is a gift from God.
If you read about the twins in Romans 9....you can easily see it is Gods choice all the way.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The problem with that is....God was still in charge. FAITH is a gift from God.
If you read about the twins in Romans 9....you can easily see it is Gods choice all the way.

Actually the problem is thinking that just because God is the one who is responsible for sending the faith to believe into the world in the form of the Holy Spirit testifying to the truth of Jesus, that is the sum total of salvation. No. From there it is man's responsibility to believe what the Holy Spirit graciously testifies about (1 John 5:10 NASB). Most choose not to believe what the gift of faith is showing them to be true, preferring instead to resist the Spirit of faith that is showing them that Jesus and the gospel are for real and that they need to place their trust in him.

Perhaps what I said will be more clear if I say people are elected (chosen) on the basis of believing. Believing in that which God graciously shows them to be true about Jesus. Esau and Jacob in Romans 9:6-13 NASB illustrate for us how it is that God ordained ahead of time that the promise be received through the calling and election of faith, not through the effort of works. It isn't an illustration of how he picks out people ahead of time to be saved. And worse, to think that their story illustrates how you don't have any obligation to be obedient in this gracious way of faith and believing to be saved.

 

[wwjd_kilden]

He knew who would believe and who would not.
Based on that knowledge, He chose those who would in the future believe, to be his children.

 

[JLB]

He knew who would believe and who would not.
Based on that knowledge, He chose those who would in the future believe, to be his children.

 

[ezra]

this is the problem with divine election. we talked about this in s.s class i asked what it meant to them to be chosen , 1 reply i really liked he saw something good in us. us being chosen is not about bragging rights on who is the most holy . he chose us to live a holy and blameless life. . he also chose us to bear fruit whick backs up what paul is writing in eph 1

 

[Jethro Bodine]

He knew who would believe and who would not.
Based on that knowledge, He chose those who would in the future believe, to be his children.

Why does God need foreknowledge to choose those who believe? Why can't he just choose them at the time they believe? So I don't see how foreknowledge is the basis upon which God chooses those who believe.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

1 reply i really liked he saw something good in us.

Yeah, I like that too .
The only good thing God ever saw in me was faith in Christ. That's the only thing that qualifies me for salvation.

"12giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints in Light." (Colossians 1:12 NASB)

 

[Butch5]

He "chose us in Christ" before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless before Him.

what does this mean to you .

In that passage Paul is praising God for what He had done for the Jews.

 

[Malachi]

He "chose us in Christ" before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless before Him. What does this mean to you .

God saw the Church -- redeemed Jews and Gentiles in one Body -- as perfected in Christ (holy and blameless) even before He created anything. That was His eternal purpose in creation.

 

[Malachi]

i really don,t understand election

Election was for the purpose of perfection in Christ. Never for electing some to Heaven and others to Hell.

 

[ezra]

God saw the Church -- redeemed Jews and Gentiles in one Body -- as perfected in Christ (holy and blameless) even before He created anything. That was His eternal purpose in creation.

yes he did

 

[Malachi]

In that passage Paul is praising God for what He had done for the Jews.

Since Gentiles were already included in the Abrahamic Covenant (as the *seed* of Abraham), Paul is praising God what He has done for BOTH Jews and Gentiles.

 

[ezra]

Election was for the purpose of perfection in Christ. Never for electing some to Heaven and others to Hell.

and that is very scriptural Deuteronomy 7 :6-9
For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for yewere the fewest of all people:

8But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

9Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations; along with john 15:16 to bear fruit/ spiritual fruit .

 

[Butch5]

Since Gentiles were already included in the Abrahamic Covenant (as the *seed* of Abraham), Paul is praising God what He has done for BOTH Jews and Gentiles.

How do you come up with that idea?

 

[ezra]

How do you come up with that idea?

whats your theory ?

 

[Butch5]

whats your theory ?

The passage is part of a Hebrew praise that Paul is making to God. He's praising God for those things that He's done for Israel. Verse 3-12 are about the Jews.

 

[ezra]

He's praising God for those things that He's done for Israel. Verse 3-12 are about the Jews.

i have to disagree paul is a apostle to the gentiles / a chosen vessel the gentiles was to be brought in the fullness of times . we gentiles inherited all the promises / blessing. Eph 1:
9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. then we have
Colossians 1 :
25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

 

[Butch5]



i have to disagree paul is a apostle to the gentiles / a chosen vessel the gentiles was to be brought in the fullness of times . we gentiles inherited all the promises / blessing. Eph 1:
9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. then we have
Colossians 1 :
25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

That Paul is the apostle to the Gentiles doesn't mean he can't praise God for what He done for Israel. Firstly, notice that Paul distinguishes between the two groups. He uses first person pronouns of a group he calls, we,us, and our. Of the other group he uses second person pronouns, you and your. Of the first group, the we, our us, group Paul say, 'we who first trusted in Christ'. A better translation is, we who before hoped in the Christ. It was the Jews who had previously hoped in the Christ.

Notice in verse 11 Paul said, 'we have obtained an inheritance. That's past tense. Yet in verse 14 he tells the Gentiles that they have received a down payment on their inheritance. When Paul wrote this the Gentiles had not received an inheritance from God, the Jews had.

All the inhabitants of the hill country from Lebanon unto Misrephothmaim, and all the Sidonians, them will I drive out from before the children of Israel: only divide thou it by lot unto the Israelites for an inheritance, as I have commanded thee. (Jos. 13:6 KJV)

 

[By Grace]

He chose those, who chose Christ, being predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son.

I can understand that your theological position says what it does.

However, what you are doing is attempting to rewrite the Bible according to your theology. And to be perfectly honest, if there ever was a verse written exactly as you posted, then I would be forced to believe as you do.

In reality, we must make our theology to be solely dependent upon what Scripture says, and not what we wish it to say

Please look at the actual words, in the context, and in the word order as well as in context, which is not clear in the OP.
.

Ephesians 1: 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence​

.
Verse 3 begins with a doxology, which is a fancy name for a hymn of praise to God. "Praise God, from Whom all blessings flow..." So why is it there? Well the answer is that it is the opening for a letter to the Ephesians, and Paul wants to remind them of the wonderful salvation that God has given to them. After all He is the Author of the plan of our Salvation.

Specifically, this the spiritual reason for the doxology: who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: because of Jesus, and His Atonement, God has blessed us with blessings that are in heaven, (which we cannot see yet), and those are IN Christ. Were it not for Him, we would not have any of those things.

Verse 4 begins to make a list of the specifics for that doxology.
"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world..."
The word "according" means "to be in full agreement with...", or "following the rules of (something or someone)" Got that, so far?

Therefore the "rule book" where Jesus blessed us with heavenly blessings necessarily lies in the next words: "He hath chosen US in Him..." You may not be aware of it, but the phrase "I will be their God" is repeated about 210 times in the Old Testament (my software told me this) Sometimes, it is followed with the phrase, "...and they shall be my people."

What is significant about this is one thing:
God chooses.

Nothing else is a close second, excepting, perhaps the reciprocal of the fact that God chooses, is that His Chosen also become His people.

Please notice the time line here. Of course there is no time for any other created creature. Have you ever seen a dog or cat wearing a watch? (Yes, hyperbole) But sometimes that is good to help make the point.

But God the Father chose Us who are Christians (and will become Christians) IN CHRIST. Please do not ask me to explain that prepositional phrase; I can't. All I know is that is too wonderful for me to fully understand; nevertheless it is true.

This happened before mommy and daddy had a certain gleam in their eyes, and I am the result of that gleam. According to Scripture, it happened BEFORE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD:

It happened WAY before God created the Universe, and it happened outside of time itself.

Please understand, I am NOT trying to make you into a "Calvinist". Instead, I am attempting to to put Scripture ahead of theology, and be a "Scripturist" before anything else, K? Look at the verses I cited in several different versions. Bible Gateway is a good place to do that. enter "Ephesians 1:4 " in your search parameters, and then look at other versions . If I recall correctly, that is an option on the page giving you the verse.

Thy using the phrase "I will be their God", in the search function, and find out what happens

Please get back to me when you do that.

 

[ezra]

the jews was prideful felt they was the only chosen ones. in Galatians he dealt with those who taught law had to be mixed with grace.


{ When Paul wrote this the Gentiles had not received an inheritance from God } then neither have we. in romans paul taught how we have been grafted in . i still disagree when this was wrote the new dissipation was in Christ died on the Cross the earnest of our salvation. in fact in eph its fixing get deep .as one commentaor said we are in the n.t Hollie of hollies take our shoes off

I can understand that your theological position says what it does.

However, what you are doing is attempting to rewrite the Bible according to your theology. And to be perfectly honest, if there ever was a verse written exactly as you posted, then I would be forced to believe as you do.

In reality, we must make our theology to be solely dependent upon what Scripture says, and not what we wish it to say

Please look at the actual words, in the context, and in the word order as well as in context, which is not clear in the OP.
.

Ephesians 1: 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence​

.
Verse 3 begins with a doxology, which is a fancy name for a hymn of praise to God. "Praise God, from Whom all blessings flow..." So why is it there? Well the answer is that it is the opening for a letter to the Ephesians, and Paul wants to remind them of the wonderful salvation that God has given to them. After all He is the Author of the plan of our Salvation.

Specifically, this the spiritual reason for the doxology: who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: because of Jesus, and His Atonement, God has blessed us with blessings that are in heaven, (which we cannot see yet), and those are IN Christ. Were it not for Him, we would not have any of those things.

Verse 4 begins to make a list of the specifics for that doxology.
"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world..."
The word "according" means "to be in full agreement with...", or "following the rules of (something or someone)" Got that, so far?

Therefore the "rule book" where Jesus blessed us with heavenly blessings necessarily lies in the next words: "He hath chosen US in Him..." You may not be aware of it, but the phrase "I will be their God" is repeated about 210 times in the Old Testament (my software told me this) Sometimes, it is followed with the phrase, "...and they shall be my people."

What is significant about this is one thing:
God chooses.

Nothing else is a close second, excepting, perhaps the reciprocal of the fact that God chooses, is that His Chosen also become His people.

Please notice the time line here. Of course there is no time for any other created creature. Have you ever seen a dog or cat wearing a watch? (Yes, hyperbole) But sometimes that is good to help make the point.

But God the Father chose Us who are Christians (and will become Christians) IN CHRIST. Please do not ask me to explain that prepositional phrase; I can't. All I know is that is too wonderful for me to fully understand; nevertheless it is true.

This happened before mommy and daddy had a certain gleam in their eyes, and I am the result of that gleam. According to Scripture, it happened BEFORE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD:

It happened WAY before God created the Universe, and it happened outside of time itself.

Please understand, I am NOT trying to make you into a "Calvinist". Instead, I am attempting to to put Scripture ahead of theology, and be a "Scripturist" before anything else, K? Look at the verses I cited in several different versions. Bible Gateway is a good place to do that. enter "Ephesians 1:4 " in your search parameters, and then look at other versions . If I recall correctly, that is an option on the page giving you the verse.

Thy using the phrase "I will be their God", in the search function, and find out what happens

Please get back to me when you do that.

:amen