What Does Jesus Say About A Saved Person Becoming Unsaved ?

[donadams]

“Faith alone” Questions

where does ez 36: 25:27 Say “faith alone”?

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Where does it say we are sealed by faith alone?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Ministered by the apostolic church!

2 Corinthians 8:19
And not that only, but who was also chosen of the churches to travel with us with this grace, which is administered by us to the glory of the same Lord, and declaration of your ready mind:

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.

How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2

The early Catholic Church fathers say faith and baptism!

Eph 5:24 the church is subject to Christ and has always taught and practiced “baptismal regeneration” and never “faith alone” if anyone says we are justified by “faith alone” let them be anathema! (condemned)

Matt 28:19 disciples by faith and baptism
Not called to faith alone Phil 1:29

Three things faith, hope and charity!
Not faith alone! Greatest not faith, if salvation depended on faith alone faith would be the greatest! 1 cor 13:13

Phil 1:29 not only called to believe

Scripture does not support “faith alone”!

 

[donadams]

I am the gate. Whoever enters by me will be saved, and will come in and go out and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.

Yes, faith and obedience but isn't that what John is stating about those who really belong to Him? Apparently, God has given them a new heart to follow Him with the aid of His Spirit in them. If someone says they know Him but doesn't do what He says they are a liar.

No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

This is how we know the sincerity of one's claims.

This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.

And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

God cannot disown Himself.

Life is the life of God, and in us it is grace!
You can lose grace
Fallen from grace

Matt 24:13 he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mk 16:16 he who believes and is baptized shall be saved.

Luke 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

Colossians 2:5
For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

Jn 15:1-5 abide in Christ

John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

Galatians 5:5
For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

1 Thessalonians 3:5
For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain.

1 Timothy 2:15
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

Heb 1:14 shall be heirs of salvation

Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
(Must remain obedient)

(He who endured to the end) one who dies in a state of grace united to Jesus Christ by faith and baptism!
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 1 pet 3:21
Matt 24:13


Can’t lose your salvation while still in this world:

Acts 1: 18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Jn 15:1-5 abide

Matt 24:12 endure

Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

Colossians 2:5
For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end.

Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

Galatians 5:5
For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

Eternal life is the life of God in us by faith and baptism.



Verses that oppose “faith alone”!

Mk 16:16 faith and baptism

1 cor 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

1 cor 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.


2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Phil 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

 

[Consecrated Life]

Life is the life of God, and in us it is grace!
You can lose grace
Fallen from grace

Matt 24:13 he who endures to the end shall be saved.

So if you stop enduring for a little while , but then decide to start enduring again before the end, your are still saved , right ?

 

[donadams]

So if you stop enduring for a little while , but then decide to start enduring again before the end, your are still saved , right ?

No not saved until death
Your in a state of grace
Or the grace in which we stand
We must repent, confess and quickly return to our fathers house lest we die of wretchedness and hunger!

 

[Consecrated Life]

No not saved until death
Your in a state of grace
Or the grace in which we stand
We must repent, confess and quickly return to our fathers house lest we die of wretchedness and hunger!

So do I understand you that not being saved until death is a precaution in case you decide to stop enduring a second time?

 

[donadams]

So do I understand you that not being saved until death is a precaution in case you decide to stop enduring a second time?

It’s simply the way it is

We are in the process of salvation
Redemption (life death, & resurrection of Christ)
Justification (faith & baptism)
Sanctification (now increase in grace, build up treasures in heaven, prayer, alms, fast, sacrifice & suffering, virtues, sacraments etc. abiding in christ enduring to the end)
Salvation (die in the grace of Christ)
Purification (purgatory)
Glorification (heaven yahoo)

 

[Consecrated Life]

It’s simply the way it is

We are in the process of salvation
Redemption (life death, & resurrection of Christ)
Justification (faith & baptism)
Sanctification (now increase in grace, build up treasures in heaven, prayer, alms, fast, sacrifice & suffering, virtues, sacraments etc. abiding in christ enduring to the end)
Salvation (die in the grace of Christ)
Purification (purgatory)
Glorification (heaven yahoo)

So no limit on the number of times you decide to quit enduring ?
4, 8 or 67 times ?
Really ?

 

[donadams]

So no limit on the number of times you decide to quit enduring ?
4, 8 or 67 times ?
Really ?

7 times seventy times

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[Randy]

Life is the life of God, and in us it is grace!
You can lose grace
Fallen from grace

Matt 24:13 he who endures to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mk 16:16 he who believes and is baptized shall be saved.

Luke 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

Colossians 2:5
For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

Jn 15:1-5 abide in Christ

John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

Galatians 5:5
For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

1 Thessalonians 3:5
For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain.

1 Timothy 2:15
Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

Heb 1:14 shall be heirs of salvation

Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
(Must remain obedient)

(He who endured to the end) one who dies in a state of grace united to Jesus Christ by faith and baptism!
Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38 1 pet 3:21
Matt 24:13


Can’t lose your salvation while still in this world:

Acts 1: 18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Jn 15:1-5 abide

Matt 24:12 endure

Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

Colossians 2:5
For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end.

Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

Galatians 5:5
For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

Eternal life is the life of God in us by faith and baptism.



Verses that oppose “faith alone”!

Mk 16:16 faith and baptism

1 cor 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

1 cor 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.


2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Phil 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

God has created a new heart in those He calls His children and they have been appointed to eternal life. They will be influenced greatly by the Holy Spirit of God that "lives" in them. They will know God with absolute certainty. I find it highly unlikely since one would know about the 2nd death that they would ever leave or deny Him. It's an active relationship as the Spirit intercedes for us according to the will of the mind of God. Jesus stated that will. Its His Fathers will that He lose none that the Father has given Him but raise them up on the last day.

Jude knew this
Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

This is not a odd thing.
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws

 

[donadams]

God has created a new heart in those He calls His children and they have been appointed to eternal life. They will be influenced greatly by the Holy Spirit of God that "lives" in them. They will know God with absolute certainty. I find it highly unlikely since one would know about the 2nd death that they would ever leave or deny Him. It's an active relationship as the Spirit intercedes for us according to the will of the mind of God. Jesus stated that will. Its His Fathers will that He lose none that the Father has given Him but raise them up on the last day.

Jude knew this
Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

This is not a odd thing.
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws

If you are faithful to God, Christ, the spirit, and grace!

Explain rev 2:13 “faithful martyr”
He would not be praised as faithful if he could not be unfaithful

 

[Consecrated Life]

7 times seventy times

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Unless of course we get run over by a bus just after failing to endure for the 52nd time , and prior re-enduring for the 53rd time
In that case we are doomed to hell , correct ?

 

[donadams]

Unless of course we get run over by a bus just after failing to endure for the 52nd time , and prior re-enduring for the 53rd time
In that case we are doomed to hell , correct ?

There is always time to repent and confess.

God does not desire the death of the sinner etc.

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[Randy]

If you are faithful to God, Christ, the spirit, and grace!

Explain rev 2:13 “faithful martyr”
He would not be praised as faithful if he could not be unfaithful

Those in Christ, a new creation, will remain faithful. Our will is involved as well as God's.

If they cannot continue to sin then how do they become unsaved?
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

 

[Consecrated Life]

There is always time to repent and confess.

Time but not inclination.
That is why I posed the question to you according to your theology that you seem quite timid to answer

David did not repent of his sin with Bathsheba for over a year .
He had plenty of time .
Human nature according to God's Word is not conducive to immediate repentance .
From the very first humans to sin . Adam & Eve .
Who after sinning did not call out to God to repent & tell Him they had fallen.
Quite the opposite, their natural inclination as sinners was not to repent but to avoid God & hide from Him:

Gen 3:8
¶
....and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.


Human nature being what it is as declared by God , my question is a valid one & deserves an answer from you according to your theology of lost salvation

Unless of course we get run over by a bus just after failing to endure for the 52nd time , and prior re-enduring for the 53rd time
In that case we are doomed to hell , correct ?
YES ? Or No?

 

[GodsGrace]

So if you stop enduring for a little while , but then decide to start enduring again before the end, your are still saved , right ?

You can fool humans, but not God.

 

[GodsGrace]

Time but not inclination.
That is why I posed the question to you according to your theology that you seem quite timid to answer

David did not repent of his sin with Bathsheba for over a year .
He had plenty of time .
Human nature according to God's Word is not conducive to immediate repentance .
From the very first humans to sin . Adam & Eve .
Who after sinning did not call out to God to repent & tell Him they had fallen.
Quite the opposite, their natural inclination as sinners was not to repent but to avoid God & hide from Him:

Gen 3:8
¶
....and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.


Human nature being what it is as declared by God , my question is a valid one & deserves an answer from you according to your theology of lost salvation

Unless of course we get run over by a bus just after failing to endure for the 52nd time , and prior re-enduring for the 53rd time
In that case we are doomed to hell , correct ?
YES ? Or No?

52X ?

Isn't that a revolving door salvation?

 

[JLB]

Why does God's Word clearly say David was not only given the time it took for the child to come to full term and be born to repent, but also allow David not to repent of his own conscious ?
For a year no less.
Add to that , David did not repent until he was physically confronted about his sin .
If that's what it took. why was Nathan even sent by God , why did God go to such lengths to get David to repent.
Why did God not wash His hands of David ?

Because God loves people, and does not not desire that any should should perish but all come to repentance.

God did not want David to remain lost.

Again, here are the steps -

• if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother.

“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector. Matthew 18:15-17



JLB

 

[JLB]

So if you stop enduring for a little while , but then decide to start enduring again before the end, your are still saved , right ?

Do you understand the context of what Jesus means by endure to the end?


But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. Matthew 13:20-21

• For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles

To stumble means to turn away from Christ, by renouncing Him as LORD, in order to "save your life" during persecution, so you can live a little longer.


This is what those who practiced Judaism would do to other Jews who were Christians, to get them to renounce Jesus as a false teacher, and false messiah.




JLB

 

[Consecrated Life]

You can fool humans, but not God.

Fool God about what ?

 

[Consecrated Life]

52X ?

Isn't that a revolving door salvation?

Exactly!
Aren't you familiar with your own theology ?
Or is it your theology ?
People need to state clearly all the details of what they espousing here instead of it having to be tugged and pulled out of them one syllable at a time .
It has been stated on this thread that you can lose your salvation, and regain it by at least one other.
If there is more than one variation of this theology being posited here than I will have to determine which theology each poster is promoting.
Is there more than one variation of the " you can lose your salvation" being presented on this thread that you know of?