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"What Happened to the Sinner at the Point of Salvation?

We became a new creation in Christ. We go from being slaves to sin to being slaves to righteousness. We have the righteousness of Christ imputed in us. As we walk in Christ we walk in his obedience which is accomplished perfectly through us. We are continually guided and brought to repentence by the Holy Spirit. God gives us HIS desires and our old desires were crucified with our old man in baptism. And having His desires mean that we don't DESIRE to do unrighteousness.

Our flesh, however, still sins, but is easily brought back in line by the Holy Spirit. There is no condemnation to them in Christ Jesus.
 
Re: "What Happened to the Sinner at the Point of Salvat

AVBunyan said:
At the good suggestion of xicali - let's see what folks say regarding this question of:

"What Happened to the Sinner at the Point of Salvation?

OK folks - according to the scriptures - what happens at the point of salvation?

God bless


This is for anybody...

"... at the Point of Salvation..." What exactly does it mean? A new departure in time and space where you exercised your free will to choose His Gift of Salvation?

Is the following true?

"...we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him [Jesus] he heareth..." John 9:31

Do [sinners] accept salvation in different intervals in life around the clock by choice?

U R Blessed

Xicali
 
Orthodox Christian, allow me to remind you and others of your "pig's rectum" comment, and how by this comment you absolutely and utterly defeated any little credibility you may have possesed by exposing how contemptible your present speaking is.

Your crass and unholy worship of an anti-Christ man-made religion (crass in such activities as the kissing of pictures, and unholy in your uplifting of the ways of men as a replacement of God) serves as the evidence that may been seen regarding the source of your inability to put aside the ways of your fallen flesh.

Your callous butchery of scriptures, into which, in the most common way of the apostate institution, you attempt to impose the speaking of men above God's pure word is nothing less than the miserable issue of your holding to and serving of a religious institution that has no ground in Christ.

And what is not of Christ is only of His adversary.


Fact is, the "best" that you can do is present Webster's dictionary,.... and even then, only according to the lie of God's enemy.


Again I say, when you start talking about the scriptures without subjecting them to your love of the things of men, then maybe all here may find a worthy crumb or two in your words.

Until that time, all should see that your desire is not for God.


That said, let's expose you some more.....

Orthodox Christian said:
I'm not sure, Thess, but I think CJ has basically said that you guys have it wrong.

Is a man "wrong" for continuing to wear the tighty-whitey style underwear that his mother first introduce him to as a child, or should he have moved on to boxers?

The adding of leaven is a common thing with men concerning their regarding of God's word,... even Christ (remember Him) told us this.

Moses "added" the 2nd hitting of the rock to God's instruction of just speaking to it.

Remember Moses,.... the guy who lead the Jews out of Egypt?

And lets see, who else,...... oh yes, Jacob, after being told that God would be with him, Jacob still tried to control the situation by sending the women and children before him.

And David, the one who was after God's heart, remember him too,.... David thought he could add a little adultery (kind of in the manner the religionist conduct themselves in a spiritual way) to his relationship with God.

And John the Baptist,..... first he declared the arrival of Jesus, then he declared the person of Jesus,...... and yet,...... when he was placed in jail he decided to question if this man was really Jesus.

But let's see....

Of Moses God said he will be the one that judges the Jews.

Of Jacob, God said He loved him and then brought forth His earthly children out of him.

Of David,... well, we should know that Jesus' earthly kingship can be traced back to David.

Of John the Baptist, he who first declared God and then question God, declared there was none born of the womb that was greater.


But you, oh proud and mighty religious warrior, defender of the apostate nation, it would seem that you are unable to free yourself of the "many small cords" that bind you, and thus also serve to confuse you, regarding many things, but in this case, regarding the matter of right and wrong.

Orthodox Christian said:
He gives no rationale for this position, other than some discussion of what may be a recipe for bread.

And should we expect anything better from you?

Scripture is clear, your darkness has no relationship with light.

Fact is OC, you're a whiner who really can do no more than throw make-believe stones at my speaking.

Orthodox Christian said:
Fortunately for him, he seems to have access to the Holy Spirit in ways you and I only dream of- for he, himself, is able to single-handedly test that which is pure and that which is 'leavened.'

OC, Paul declare very clearly that he had found the secret,.... and even more, he then told us all this secret.

But I know the hardened ears of a regionite can present a great hinderanc to the hearing and thus receiving of the truth.

And as a religionist you, in a hidden way, hate Paul and the completing ministry God placed in him.

Orthodox Christian said:
I pointed out to him before that his eschatology points to a sort of purgatory, but he didn't like it any more then than now. In his response to me, he referred to me as a slave to the Evil One.

And quite rightly so. For you did not point me in the direction of truth but in the direction of Satan.

Little one, try to understand this,..... my "eschatology" rejects the added leaven of the false doctrine of purgatory.

Tell me, do you believe that a the time of a saint already in purgatory stay can be shortened by the efforts of another person?

And this example is but just a meagre ounce of the pounds of leaven that have been heaped upon the truth concerning the further discipling of a stubborn slave.

Orthodox Christian said:
Apostolic Christians, let none deceive you- especially those that cloak themselves in the mantle of the prophet.

And none is worse that the corporate prophet of the apostate religion, the one who calls its man-made ways the way of the church of God; and its workers of iniquity.

There is a good reason we have been given the Lord's speaking on the one called Jezebel.

Revelation  2 : 20, "But I have something against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, she who calls herself a prophetess and teaches and leads My slaves astray to commit fornication and to eat idol sacrifices."

Note - The woman here (Jezebel) is the same as the one prophesied by the Lord in Matt. 13:33. There the woman added leaven (signifying evil, heretical, and pagan things) into the fine flour (signifying Christ as the meal offering for the satisfaction of God and man). This woman is the great harlot of Rev. 17, who mixes abominations with the divine things. Jezebel, the pagan wife of Ahab, is a type of this apostate church.


And what was one of the trademark ways of this Jezebel......

1 Kings 18:4, "And when Jezebel cut off the prophets of Jehovah,..."

..... One of the trademarks of Jezebel is found in her efforts to "cut off" the prophets of Jehovah.

Lets read again the religionite's words....

OC says,.... "Apostolic Christians, let none deceive you- especially those that cloak themselves in the mantle of the prophet."

This is the speaking of Jezebel.

OC attempts to set up the strawman, for I have never made any claim to being a prophet.

Yet OC,...... God's word, that which you know nothing of, says......

1 Corinthians  14 : 1, "Pursue love, and desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.

1 Corinthians  14 : 3 ---- 1 Corinthians  14 : 6, "But he who prophesies speaks building up and encouragement and consolation to men. He who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but he who prophesies builds up the church.

I desire that you all speak in tongues, but especially that you would prophesy; and greater is he who prophesies than he who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, that the church may receive building up.

But now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues, what will I profit you, unless I speak to you either in revelation or in knowledge or in prophecy or in teaching?"


See saints, Jezebel lives, she is alive and well in the corrupt hearts of the religionists.


Paul, he who's speaking the religionists would dearly love to hide away, declares...... desire earnestly,..... especially that you may prophesy.

But OC the religionist attempts to craftily stiffle this aspect of our walk with God.


In fact, it is in the stiffling of the prophesying of the saints that the apostate institution has wreaked terrible damage regarding the biody of Christ.

Read and understand what Paul says..... ... he who prophesies builds up the church....... I desire that you all speak....... but especially that you would prophesy;



Saints, God has declared, that which comes out of a man defiles him.

Matthew 15:11, "It is not that which enters into the mouth that defiles the man; but that which proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man.

In OC's words we can see the truth of God's declaration.


Speak OC, for the more you speak the more clear your corruption becomes.


In love,
cj
 
Merry Menagerie said:
Our flesh, however, still sins, but is easily brought back in line by the Holy Spirit. There is no condemnation to them in Christ Jesus.

Our flesh is never "brought" back in line,..... our flesh is an aspect of what must go.

In love,
cj
 
Well you're right in a sense but I still think that we are brought inline by the Holy Spirit though...I know that I am chastised and brought inline many times...I need to be! Or I would never repent and I would continue in my sin.

But you are right about the flesh being the thing that needs to go.
 
The flesh must obey when we walk in the Spirit, but the Spirit and flesh are contrary to each other. When we walk in the flesh, we fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
 
So the flesh is brought inline by us walking in the spirit?
 
Merry Menagerie said:
So the flesh is brought inline by us walking in the spirit?

I thought that I posted this scripture with previous post but didn't. Here it is.

8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.


The inward man, that is born again is that spirit portion that is in conflict with the flesh according to Paul in
Romans 7. When we grow in the spirit, we find out the different areas of the flesh that are not in accordance with God's word. As the Spirit gives us that knowledge we correct our walk, and continue down the road to spiritual maturity. Walking in the flesh reaps the fruits of the flesh, while walking in the Spirit reaps the fruits of the Spirit. The flesh is circumcised as we walk in the Spirit.
 
"You however, are not controlled by the sinful nature but by the Spirit if the Spirit of God lives in you." That says it all. :)
 
What happens to a sinner at the point of salvation?

He is justified by his faith.

But short of derailing the thread, and turning it to a different direction; define "the point of salvation".

In other words, just when did you get saved?
 
What happens to a sinner at the point of salvation?

He is justified by his faith.

But short of derailing the thread, and turning it to a different direction; define "the point of salvation".

In other words, just when did you get saved?
 
What happens to a sinner at the point of salvation?

He is justified by his faith.

But short of derailing the thread, and turning it to a different direction; define "the point of salvation".

In other words, just when did you get saved?
 
Solo said:
The inward man, that is born again is that spirit portion that is in conflict with the flesh according to Paul in Romans 7. When we grow in the spirit, we find out the different areas of the flesh that are not in accordance with God's word. As the Spirit gives us that knowledge we correct our walk, and continue down the road to spiritual maturity. Walking in the flesh reaps the fruits of the flesh, while walking in the Spirit reaps the fruits of the Spirit. The flesh is circumcised as we walk in the Spirit.

You're almost there Solo, but you need to go a little further.

You said, "As the Spirit gives us that knowledge we correct our walk,..."

This is not a proper way to present it, the proper way would be....

"As the Spirit shines His light on us our walk is spontaneously adjusted as we respond,..."


See, I think the lack of clarity lies in this that you said before, "When we grow in the spirit, we find out the different areas of the flesh that are not in accordance with God's word."

The thing we must see and understand is that when we become born-again what takes place immediately is that a new spirit is given to us and that this new spirit contains Christ as its very essence/element.

Our new spirit is like a seed that contains all that God is in life and nature (expression), and as we turn to our new spirit through a response of our will we become open in our heart to the essence/element that this seed contains.

And why do we turn to our new spirit? Because of the workings of God in our lives, both inward and outward.

2 Corinthians  7 : 9-10, "Now I rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to God, that in nothing you might suffer loss from us. For sorrow according to God works repentance unto salvation, which is without regret; but the sorrow of the world works out death."

The above is referring to being reconciled to God (2 Cor. 5:20), resulting in more life, which is versus death. And this life is just Christ as life.

1 John  1 : 9, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

As we become open, spontaneously the essence/element of this seed begins to flow out of it into our hearts (our conscience and soul/mind,emotion,will), washing away the old corruption that still inhabits these "organs" of our being and thus cleansing our hearts. And as our hearts are cleansed we spontaneously conduct ourselves in a proper way before God.

This is what Paul meant when he spoke of our serving in the newness of the spirit.

Romans  7 : 6, "But now we have been discharged from the law, having died to that in which we were held, so that we serve..... in newness of spirit and not in oldness of letter."

Compare with the following,

Romans 6:4, "We have been buried therefore with Him through baptism into His death, in order that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so also we might walk..... in newness of life.

"... serve in newness of spirit", "walk in newness of life."


2 Timothy  4 : 22, "The Lord be with your spirit. Grace be with you."

Colossians 3:4, "When Christ our life is manifested, then you also will be manifested with Him in glory."

John  1 : 4, "In Him was life, and the life was the light of men."

John  11 : 25, "Jesus said to her, I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes into Me, even if he should die, shall live;"

1 John  5 : 12, "He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life."


When man fell he did not lose knowledge, man lost life.

The truth is, man fell from his spirit (being the leading organ to which all other aspects of our person are submitted).

What God is doing is restoring man to his original way of functioning; that being our spirit having the lead in all things.

But God is doing more than that also (our better promise); unlike Adam's spirit, God is installing Himself in our spirit. And this is why our spirit is not just restored, but is actuall renewed (its new).

God has never before dwelt in a man's spirit in this way; He could not until the Son came, lived, died, was resurrected, ascended, enthroned, and then descended as the Spirit who comes to live in our spirit.

John 7:39, "But this He said concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed into Him were about to receive; for the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus had not yet been glorified."

This Spirit that was not yet is the Spirit of Christ (Rom. 8:9), the life-giving Spirit (1 Cor. 15:45, "So also it is written, "The first man, Adam, became a living soul''; the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit.).


So, seeing the above, lets take another look at what you said...

"As the Spirit gives us that knowledge we correct our walk, and continue down the road to spiritual maturity."

First, the Spirit gives us light to see, and when we see we (should) repent, which means to turn to God, who dwells in our new spirit, thus we repent and turn to our spirit.

As we turn to our spirit we become open to God in our spirit, Christ as life, and this divine life, God, flows out as living water, cleansing us from all sin, and empowering us to have a living and being that is just Christ.

Philippians 4:13, "I am able to do all things in Him who empowers me."

We don't "correct" anything, as this would be our effort/works. What actually takes place is that as the living water flows into our heart and cleanses us it also saturates our hearts with Christ as life, and it is this life that empower us to live out Christ as life.


And this is how we come to fully understand what Paul said as follows,

Galatians 2:20, "I am crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me;........ and the life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me."


Faith is just the living and operating Spirit of Life, who is just the living and operating Spirit of Christ.

Faith is just Christ expressed,.... which is to say, is God expressed.


Paul declared above that the life he lived in the flesh was just God.

You saw Paul you saw God.


And the wonderful thing is that one day we will all be the same and be able to declare the same.


In love,
cj
 
CJ said:
Faith is just the living and operating Spirit of Life, who is just the living and operating Spirit of Christ.

Faith is just Christ expressed,.... which is to say, is God expressed.


Paul declared above that the life he lived in the flesh was just God.

You saw Paul you saw God.
Huh? Show me where that is in the scriptures.
 
BenJasher said:
He is justified by his faith.
Hmmm :-? According to the modern versions it is man's faith. Every new version on the market says "faith in".

But...but..according to the scriptures it is Jesus' faith - "faith of" - there is a big difference:

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ,
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

I'll take Christ's faith over man's anyday - man's faith cannot justifiy.

God bless
 
Not all men are given the faith to believe. If you have that faith, it is a gift. One way or another, it comes back to glorifying Him who is the object of our faith.

It is the goodness of God that leads men to repentance. It isn't man's repentance that leads to the goodness of God.
 
BenJasher said:
Not all men are given the faith to believe. If you have that faith, it is a gift. One way or another, it comes back to glorifying Him who is the object of our faith.
I understand but we are talking about "justifiying faith" - how is the sinner justified before God - by his faith of Christ's?
 
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