What happens to the soul of an aborted fetus?

[Alfred Persson]

As Adam didn't die on that day, your point is moot.

Yup, and thank God everyday for allowing us to live without sin, since Jesus' resurrection.

What scripture do you cite for that idea ?

Natures are not sin.
A sin must be committed, for one to be a sinner.

God says Adam died the day he ate, therefore God's definition of death is different from yours:
17 "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die." (Gen. 2:17 NKJ)
Living without sin is impossible for us now:
9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
10 As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one; (Rom. 3:9-10 NKJ)
In the New Heavens and New Earth God dwells with man, and man in Him:
And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. (Rev. 21:3 NKJ)

We will worship God IN His temple, the Lamb and God are the Temple:
But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. (Rev. 21:22 NKJ)

Then Jesus' prayer has come true:
20 "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
21 "that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
23 "I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me. (Jn. 17:20-23 NKJ)

Our fallen nature in Adam reeks of death and corruption. It is "unholy". It cannot exist in God, He must separate it from Himself. He is Holy. But thanks be to God our Creator, in Jesus He has created the way to reconcilation, to "AtOneMent" with God. All who believe will be saved. Not one of the hairs on their head will perish. All who reject Christ, will be rejected. For God is not partial, whatever a man sows that also he will reap.

 

[Alfred Persson]

As Adam didn't die on that day, your point is moot.

Yup, and thank God everyday for allowing us to live without sin, since Jesus' resurrection.

What scripture do you cite for that idea ?

Natures are not sin.
A sin must be committed, for one to be a sinner.

God says Adam died the day he ate, therefore God's definition of death is different from yours:
17 "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die." (Gen. 2:17 NKJ)
Living without sin is impossible for us now:
9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
10 As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one; (Rom. 3:9-10 NKJ)
In the New Heavens and New Earth God dwells with man, and man in Him:
And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. (Rev. 21:3 NKJ)

We will worship God IN His temple, the Lamb and God are the Temple:
But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. (Rev. 21:22 NKJ)

Then Jesus' prayer has come true:
20 "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
21 "that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
23 "I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me. (Jn. 17:20-23 NKJ)

Our fallen nature in Adam reeks of death and corruption. It is "unholy". It cannot exist in God, He must separate it from Himself. He is Holy. But thanks be to God our Creator, in Jesus He has created the way to reconcilation, to "AtOneMent" with God. All who believe will be saved. Not one of the hairs on their head will perish. All who reject Christ, will be rejected. For God is not partial, whatever a man sows that also he will reap.

 

[Alfred Persson]

As Adam didn't die on that day, your point is moot.

Yup, and thank God everyday for allowing us to live without sin, since Jesus' resurrection.

What scripture do you cite for that idea ?

Natures are not sin.
A sin must be committed, for one to be a sinner.

God says Adam died the day he ate, therefore God's definition of death is different from yours:
17 "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die." (Gen. 2:17 NKJ)

Living without sin is impossible for us now:
9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
10 As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one; (Rom. 3:9-10 NKJ)

In the New Heavens and New Earth God dwells with man, and man in Him:
And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. (Rev. 21:3 NKJ)

We will worship God IN His temple, the Lamb and God are the Temple:
But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. (Rev. 21:22 NKJ)

Then Jesus' prayer has come true:
20 "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
21 "that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
23 "I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me. (Jn. 17:20-23 NKJ)

Our fallen nature in Adam reeks of death and corruption. It is "unholy". It cannot exist in God, He must separate it from Himself. He is Holy. But thanks be to God our Creator, in Jesus He has created the way to reconcilation, to "AtOneMent" with God. All who believe will be saved. Not one of the hairs on their head will perish. All who reject Christ, will be rejected. For God is not partial, whatever a man sows that also he will reap.

PS: Forum created multiples of this post. I tried to delete them, but the option wasn't available.

 

[Hopeful 2]

God says Adam died the day he ate, therefore God's definition of death is different from yours:
17 "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die." (Gen. 2:17 NKJ)

God didn't say Adam would die that day.
He said on that day, that he would eventually die.
Before Adam's sin, there was no death at all.

Living without sin is impossible for us now:
9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
10 As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one; (Rom. 3:9-10 NKJ)
In the New Heavens and New Earth God dwells with man, and man in Him:

It is possible, since water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins allowed our "immersion" into the death of Jesus; making it possible for the destruction of the old man, and to be raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:4,6)

We will worship God IN His temple, the Lamb and God are the Temple:
But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. (Rev. 21:22 NKJ)
Then Jesus' prayer has come true:
20 "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
21 "that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22 "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one:
23 "I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me. (Jn. 17:20-23 NKJ)
Our fallen nature in Adam reeks of death and corruption. It is "unholy". It cannot exist in God, He must separate it from Himself. He is Holy. But thanks be to God our Creator, in Jesus He has created the way to reconcilation, to "AtOneMent" with God. All who believe will be saved. Not one of the hairs on their head will perish. All who reject Christ, will be rejected. For God is not partial, whatever a man sows that also he will reap.

 

[Hopeful 2]

PS: Forum created multiples of this post. I tried to delete them, but the option wasn't available.

Yeah, something funny is happening here.

Now I see the edit option is back, on the bottom.

 

[Little Owl]

Its an organization.

The love of God is absent in your theory. God MUST save because you judge it right.

But the Love of God has factored in the dismal hopeless plight of all humanity, and His solution is Jesus.

Its sad you don't see that. Perhaps you would if you educated yourself on the Christian Faith, read what its teachers taught for centuries, since the Reformation.

In most forums you would be addressed for your attack on my faith.

You are right. It is an organization. And you boldly admit membership when you identify yourself as, [SIZE=14px]Alfred Persson[/SIZE]

Primitive Orthodox Free Will Reformed Baptist.​

I think you're covered

Meanwhile,you transfer the vacancy in your theory onto me.

You think to make God in your imagination. And when you condemn the unborn to that you're not only wrong , your theory is blasphemy and heretical.
And you are way too proud to learn how wrong you are.

The Gospel good news is, God is better than your imagination makes him out to be.

The unborn murdered in abortion or lost to miscarriage do not go where you insist they must go.
When you arrive there you shall be alone to ponder your false teachings . Unless God's will lays his Holy Spirit into your heart and opens your consciousness to understand his word .


Unless it until then, you will live your life thinking babies do go to your imaginary place because they are what you imagine them to be. You will oppose righteous instruction and likely add another doctrine to the list of self identification.

Meanwhile this born again Holy Spirit filled Christian will recognize and obey God and his wisdom.

Book of 2nd John 1: Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, 11 for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.

I will never read your evil again.

 

[Alfred Persson]

In most forums you would be addressed for your attack on my faith.

You are right. It is an organization. And you boldly admit membership when you identify yourself as, [SIZE=14px]Alfred Persson[/SIZE]

Primitive Orthodox Free Will Reformed Baptist.​

I think you're covered

Meanwhile,you transfer the vacancy in your theory onto me.

You think to make God in your imagination. And when you condemn the unborn to that you're not only wrong , your theory is blasphemy and heretical.
And you are way too proud to learn how wrong you are.

The Gospel good news is, God is better than your imagination makes him out to be.

The unborn murdered in abortion or lost to miscarriage do not go where you insist they must go.
When you arrive there you shall be alone to ponder your false teachings . Unless God's will lays his Holy Spirit into your heart and opens your consciousness to understand his word .


Unless it until then, you will live your life thinking babies do go to your imaginary place because they are what you imagine them to be. You will oppose righteous instruction and likely add another doctrine to the list of self identification.

Meanwhile this born again Holy Spirit filled Christian will recognize and obey God and his wisdom.

Book of 2nd John 1: Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, 11 for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.

I will never read your evil again.

Wow! Ok. But I never said God won't save His children, aborted or not. In Jesus only, can and does it happen.

 

[Alfred Persson]

In most forums you would be addressed for your attack on my faith.

You are right. It is an organization. And you boldly admit membership when you identify yourself as, [SIZE=14px]Alfred Persson[/SIZE]

Primitive Orthodox Free Will Reformed Baptist.​

I think you're covered

Meanwhile,you transfer the vacancy in your theory onto me.

You think to make God in your imagination. And when you condemn the unborn to that you're not only wrong , your theory is blasphemy and heretical.
And you are way too proud to learn how wrong you are.

The Gospel good news is, God is better than your imagination makes him out to be.

The unborn murdered in abortion or lost to miscarriage do not go where you insist they must go.
When you arrive there you shall be alone to ponder your false teachings . Unless God's will lays his Holy Spirit into your heart and opens your consciousness to understand his word .


Unless it until then, you will live your life thinking babies do go to your imaginary place because they are what you imagine them to be. You will oppose righteous instruction and likely add another doctrine to the list of self identification.

Meanwhile this born again Holy Spirit filled Christian will recognize and obey God and his wisdom.

Book of 2nd John 1: Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, 11 for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.

I will never read your evil again.

By the way, I never attacked your faith. And nothing I said was evil.

I only said salvation is exclusively in Christ Jesus. As your theory leaves Him out, as did Focus on the Family, its wrong according to the scripture. Only in the Name of Jesus is salvation. He alone is the way to God:

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. (Jn. 14:6 NKJ)

"I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. (Jn. 10:9 NKJ)

11 "This is the`stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.'
12 "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:11-12 NKJ)

 

[Consecrated Life]

Every human being "at conception" are "dead in Adam" seperated from God. Only in Christ can they be made alive:

Therefore, if a person did not have the opportunity to believe in Christ in his life (from Adam and Eve onward), they get it in the next when they die.

Who is there mentioned in scripture that you can cite as being given the opportunity to believe after they died ?

 

[Alfred Persson]

Who is there mentioned in scripture that you can cite as being given the opportunity to believe after they died ?

Jonah. Not believe, a chance to repent.

Jonah could not liken the belly of the fish to Sheol if God doesn't redeem souls from sheol:

NKJ Jonah 2:1 Then Jonah prayed to the LORD his God from the fish's belly.
2 And he said: "I cried out to the LORD because of my affliction, And He answered me. "Out of the belly of Sheol I cried, And You heard my voice.
3 For You cast me into the deep, Into the heart of the seas, And the floods surrounded me; All Your billows and Your waves passed over me.
4 Then I said,`I have been cast out of Your sight; Yet I will look again toward Your holy temple.'
5 The waters surrounded me, even to my soul; The deep closed around me; Weeds were wrapped around my head.
6 I went down to the moorings of the mountains; The earth with its bars closed behind me forever; Yet You have brought up my life from the pit, O LORD, my God.
7 "When my soul fainted within me, I remembered the LORD; And my prayer went up to You, Into Your holy temple.
8 "Those who regard worthless idols Forsake their own Mercy.
9 But I will sacrifice to You With the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay what I have vowed. Salvation is of the LORD."
(Jon. 2:1-9 NKJ)

Moreover, everyone assumes Jonah didn't die. His words imply otherwise, "pit" is the lowest part of sheol, where lost souls go. "Bars closed...forever".


When animating spirit returns to God upon physical death, the soul becomes weak like a shade, a shadow of the person it once was. That is why Christ's human soul was "quickened" by the Holy Spirit when Jesus went to preach to the spirits in prison, enveloped by the Holy Spirit:

18 Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring you to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
19 in which he also went and made a proclamation to the spirits in prison, (1 Pet. 3:18-19 RPTE)

Christ's human soul was unchanged until His resurrection in power, infused with eternal life. We also will be made like Him in the reusurrection, but our souls receive eternal life now when we are born again still physically alive, because Christ paid for our sins.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Jonah. Not believe, a chance to repent.

Jonah could not liken the belly of the fish to Sheol if God doesn't redeem souls from sheol:

NKJ Jonah 2:1 Then Jonah prayed to the LORD his God from the fish's belly.

Jonah would have never been chosen by God to preach the Word to Nineveh if he had not The Spirit of a believer .
Try again .

Jonah 1:1
Now the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the son of Amittai, saying,
Jonah 1:2
Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry against it; for their wickedness is come up before me.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Jonah would have never been chosen by God to preach the Word to Nineveh if he had not The Spirit of a believer .
Try again .

Jonah 1:1
Now the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the son of Amittai, saying,
Jonah 1:2
Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry against it; for their wickedness is come up before me.

You asked for an example, Jonah by his own words is it.

Of course your theories don't agree, but that's not my problem.

 

[Consecrated Life]

You asked for an example, Jonah by his own words is it.

Of course your theories don't agree, but that's not my problem.

Not my theory, Jonah 1:1-2 is God's Word.
And it Declares the Jonah was able to give Ninevah the Word of God from the git go.

Jonah 1:1
Now the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the son of Amittai, saying,
Jonah 1:2
Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry against it; for their wickedness is come up before me.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Not my theory, Jonah 1:1-2 is God's Word.
And it Declares the Jonah was able to give Ninevah the Word of God from the git go.

Jonah 1:1
Now the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the son of Amittai, saying,
Jonah 1:2
Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry against it; for their wickedness is come up before me.

Jonah says he was in the pit of sheol, behind bars. That's good enough for me; your theories consistently fail in my opinion. I have yet to see one sound conclusion from them.

Moreover, Christ likens His death and resurrection to Jonah:

40 "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41 "The men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and indeed a greater than Jonah is here.
42 "The queen of the South will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and indeed a greater than Solomon is here. (Matt. 12:40-42 NKJ)

The entire is a testimony of repentance, and God's willingness for forgive the repentant. He began by forgiving Jonah, then the Ninevites.

This is how people will find Judgment Day "tolerable" than the unbelieving and wicked generation who rejected Christ, because they repented in Hades:


20 Then He began to rebuke the cities in which most of His mighty works had been done, because they did not repent:
21 "Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
22 "But I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment than for you.
23 "And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades; for if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
24 "But I say to you that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment than for you." (Matt. 11:20-24 NKJ)

 

[Consecrated Life]

Jonah says he was in the pit of sheol, behind bars. That's good enough for me; your theories consistently fail in my opinion. I have yet to see one sound conclusion from them.

The entire is a testimony of repentance, and God's willingness for forgive the repentant. He began by forgiving Jonah, then the Ninevites.

I'm sure that is what being in the belly of a whale feels like, but the Word of Jesus Christ Himself assures us that Jonah was not only smack dab in the belly of the whale , and not the pit of sheol, but he was in the belly of that whale for the full duration of 3 days , 3 nights .
Jesus's description of exactly were Jonah was .

Mat 12:40
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

 

[Alfred Persson]

I'm sure that is what being in the belly of a whale feels like, but the Word of Jesus Christ Himself assures us that Jonah was not only smack dab in the belly of the whale , and not the pit of sheol, but he was in the belly of that whale for the full duration of 3 days , 3 nights .
Jesus's description of exactly were Jonah was .

Mat 12:40
For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

The context isn't about Jonah's experience but about Jesus', that would be like Jonah. Christ died physically, His human soul went into Hades. His soul was not left in Sheol, He was raised up so His body didn't see corruption, contrary to what Jehovah's Witnesses believe....that it was dissolved into gases which is a form of corruption.

 

[Consecrated Life]

The context isn't about Jonah's experience but about Jesus', that would be like Jonah. Christ died physically, His human soul went into Hades. His soul was not left in Sheol, He was raised up so His body didn't see corruption, contrary to what Jehovah's Witnesses believe....that it was dissolved into gases which is a form of corruption.

And just as Jesus tells clearly He was in Hades , He clearly names the place Jonah was Mat 12:40... in the whale's belly.
Additionally There is no contextual comparison in your twisted equating of Jonas in his sinful misery and Jesus arriving as a victorious King of Kings in Hades to vanquish any hope the demons there may have been holding out for .

 

[Hopeful 2]

Jonah. Not believe, a chance to repent.

Jonah could not liken the belly of the fish to Sheol if God doesn't redeem souls from sheol:

NKJ Jonah 2:1 Then Jonah prayed to the LORD his God from the fish's belly.
2 And he said: "I cried out to the LORD because of my affliction, And He answered me. "Out of the belly of Sheol I cried, And You heard my voice.
3 For You cast me into the deep, Into the heart of the seas, And the floods surrounded me; All Your billows and Your waves passed over me.
4 Then I said,`I have been cast out of Your sight; Yet I will look again toward Your holy temple.'
5 The waters surrounded me, even to my soul; The deep closed around me; Weeds were wrapped around my head.
6 I went down to the moorings of the mountains; The earth with its bars closed behind me forever; Yet You have brought up my life from the pit, O LORD, my God.
7 "When my soul fainted within me, I remembered the LORD; And my prayer went up to You, Into Your holy temple.
8 "Those who regard worthless idols Forsake their own Mercy.
9 But I will sacrifice to You With the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay what I have vowed. Salvation is of the LORD."
(Jon. 2:1-9 NKJ)

Moreover, everyone assumes Jonah didn't die. His words imply otherwise, "pit" is the lowest part of sheol, where lost souls go. "Bars closed...forever".


When animating spirit returns to God upon physical death, the soul becomes weak like a shade, a shadow of the person it once was. That is why Christ's human soul was "quickened" by the Holy Spirit when Jesus went to preach to the spirits in prison, enveloped by the Holy Spirit:

18 Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring you to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
19 in which he also went and made a proclamation to the spirits in prison, (1 Pet. 3:18-19 RPTE)

Christ's human soul was unchanged until His resurrection in power, infused with eternal life. We also will be made like Him in the reusurrection, but our souls receive eternal life now when we are born again still physically alive, because Christ paid for our sins.

Jonah believed, or he wouldn't have run.

 

[KV-44-v1]

This is how people will find Judgment Day "tolerable" than the unbelieving and wicked generation who rejected Christ, because they repented in Hades:


20 Then He began to rebuke the cities in which most of His mighty works had been done, because they did not repent:
21 "Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
22 "But I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment than for you.
23 "And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades; for if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
24 "But I say to you that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment than for you." (Matt. 11:20-24 NKJ)

All this is referring to that people will have greater and lesser punishments. No 2nd chance there, sorry.

 

[KV-44-v1]

Jonah says he was in the pit of sheol, behind bar

how is being in a whales belly being in a prison?? doesnt make sense