Bible Study What Happens When We die

[GodsGrace]

Wondering,
As you probably know, man is a tripartite being -- body, soul, and spirit. After Adam sinned, all human beings became sinners by birth and by choice also (Rom 3:23; 5:12). Therefore there are two groups of humans -- the saved (justified) and the lost (unrighteous).

Until the resurrection of Christ, all souls and spirits went to Sheol (Hades). Therefore it is completely false to say that the spirit goes back to God. After the resurrection of Christ, only the souls and spirits of believers go to be with Christ. The rest remain in Hades until the Great White Throne judgement.

Hi Malachi
Okay. I see. I'd say, though, that the people who died before Jesus' resurrection went to Abraham's Bossom, not Hades or Sheol or Gehenna. The saved by faith, I mean.

It seemed like something else was being said, re the "breath of God" going back to heaven. It just means the spirit in our body...

Also, I believe that the G.W.T. Judgement is only for non-believers?

Wondering

 

[for_his_glory]

deleted

 

[GodsGrace]

It is unfortunate that the KJV translators used the word "hell" indiscriminately. However, that does not give anyone an excuse to fail to study the Greek words and also the context of each use of the word. You will notice that the Lake of Fire is simply called the Lake of Fire, but that is the real eternal Hell (as the context shows).

Because people have not been careful about the word "hell" there are some who preach that Christ actually went to the Lake of Fire. But that word in Acts 2:27 is Hades and corresponds to Sheol in the OT.

Correct. It also gets into the heresy of annihalism.

Wondering

 

[GodsGrace]

It is unfortunate that the KJV translators used the word "hell" indiscriminately. However, that does not give anyone an excuse to fail to study the Greek words and also the context of each use of the word. You will notice that the Lake of Fire is simply called the Lake of Fire, but that is the real eternal Hell (as the context shows).

Because people have not been careful about the word "hell" there are some who preach that Christ actually went to the Lake of Fire. But that word in Acts 2:27 is Hades and corresponds to Sheol in the OT.

I've always wondered what Jesus might be doing in the L of F. --- !

I agree that the word "hell" has been used incorrectly due to laziness of the translators. I must say that even the NASB, which is my favorite other than Young's Literal (which can be used only for study purposes - not readabel) does not use the correct words.

This can be compared to using the term Holy Trinity although the words are found nowhere in the N.T. It's the concept that is gleaned from study - the words are nowhere to be found.

W

 

[GodsGrace]

It might just depend on what Bible you use as I use two, KJV and the Jerusalem Bible. The KJV uses the word hell and the Jerusalem uses the word Hades.

Hi FHG
I'm not depending on any version of the bible. When I do studying on a subject I use Young's Literal Translation. The word "hell" is wrong for every verse except for 2 Peter 2:4.

Now, it's interesting that you use the Jerusalem bible. Most of my Catholic friends have one. It's interesting because I've been hearing some odd stuff due to what we're speaking about here. In other words, IS there a hell? Heresies abound. Jesus asked if He would find any faith on the earth when He returns. Luke 18:8

Wondering

 

[Malachi]

Can you emphasis and give scripture from the NT of what is revealed and what exactly goes back to God when this physical body dies?

I already quoted from Acts chapters 7 and 8. Stephen's soul and spirit went to Christ, while his body "slept" in the grave. Please review that portion of Scripture (which applies to all believers) since Paul tells us in Heb 12:22-24 (already quoted) that all the OT saints as well as the NT saints are in the New Jerusalem. This is not "the spirit going back to God", but the saints assembling with God and Christ in the New Jerusalem as individuals until the Resurrection/Rapture. "God is not the God of the dead but of the living" applies here.

But since all the unsaved are in Hades/Sheol (Ps 9:17; Lk 16:23), and the bulk of humanity is unsaved, it should be evident that any claim about "the spirit returning to God" is false. The unsaved are spiritually dead, but their souls are in torment in Hades.

 

[for_his_glory]

Wondering,
As you probably know, man is a tripartite being -- body, soul, and spirit. After Adam sinned, all human beings became sinners by birth and by choice also (Rom 3:23; 5:12). Therefore there are two groups of humans -- the saved (justified) and the lost (unrighteous).

Until the resurrection of Christ, all souls and spirits went to Sheol (Hades). Therefore it is completely false to say that the spirit goes back to God. After the resurrection of Christ, only the souls and spirits of believers go to be with Christ. The rest remain in Hades until the Great White Throne judgement.

God breathed life (spirit) into us, Genesis 2:7, that made us a living soul and what goes back to God when this physical body dies (returns to the dust of the ground) is that very spirit of life God gave us, Ecclesiastics 12:7. Only those of faith under the old covenant (OT) and those of faith under the new covenant through Christ Jesus (NT) will God take that spirit back and reserve it until Christ returns. At that time we are raised with a new glorified body, 1Corintians 15:51-58; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18, and then we are given back that spirit of life to have everlasting life with the Father.
Death and Hades are destroyed before the unrighteous are thrown into the lake of fire, Rev 20:13-15, as the sea, death and Hades gave up those who were asleep in the grave (righteous and unrighteous), 1Thess 4:13, to stand in judgment as we will either stand in Jesus judgment (Bema) or the great white throne judgment.

Read 1Corinthians 15:54-57 and Rev 20:11-15 as it is death and Hades thrown into the lake of fire that is the second death, not the unrighteous being the second death as they were delivered up for judgment first and then death and hades were thrown into the lake of fire. Death is now taken out before the torment of the unrighteous begins.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Thank you for your reply. When we see those things that are spiritual it gives us a better understanding of what/who the spirit is in us that goes back to God when we physically die. We will once again be joined back to that spirit, but this time in a new glorified body when Christ returns for His Bride.

Those things which are “spirit,” therefore, are “eternal.”

At death, a man’s spirit returns to God who safe-keeps it until He decides what to do with it, in the future. This period of time is described in the Bible as “sleep.” We read in I Corinthians, “Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed – in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet, for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed” (I Cor.15:51-52).

Death is here described as “sleep.” Also, Paul said, “For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Christ” (I Thess.4:14). And, “For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him” (I Thess.5:9-10).

In other words, even though the body perishes in the grave, the spirit or soul of man – his essence or vitality which is composed of spirit – sleeps on, till the resurrection. It is, of course, alive, for spirit does not die or perish. It is in a state of unconsciousness, for the most part – but that “sleep” can be interrupted by changing circumstances or events, as are portrayed when the king of Babylon joins the rest of the dead, or when the souls of the righteous in heaven are disturbed, witnessing the great tribulation on the earth.

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi FHG
I'm not depending on any version of the bible. When I do studying on a subject I use Young's Literal Translation. The word "hell" is wrong for every verse except for 2 Peter 2:4.

Now, it's interesting that you use the Jerusalem bible. Most of my Catholic friends have one. It's interesting because I've been hearing some odd stuff due to what we're speaking about here. In other words, IS there a hell? Heresies abound. Jesus asked if He would find any faith on the earth when He returns. Luke 18:8

Wondering

I don't know what Young's Literal Translation is. I won't argue or debate what bible is better than another as everyone has their favorite, but what the important part is that one is allowing the Holy Spirit teach them truth and learn how to discern what spirit is speaking as only two are in effect. One is the Spirit of truth and the other the spirit of error. 1John 4:1-4. I like the Jerusalem Bible because of the language being close to the Hebrew language and also like the Apocrypha found in it.

 

[for_his_glory]

I already quoted from Acts chapters 7 and 8. Stephen's soul and spirit went to Christ, while his body "slept" in the grave. Please review that portion of Scripture (which applies to all believers) since Paul tells us in Heb 12:22-24 (already quoted) that all the OT saints as well as the NT saints are in the New Jerusalem. This is not "the spirit going back to God", but the saints assembling with God and Christ in the New Jerusalem as individuals until the Resurrection/Rapture. "God is not the God of the dead but of the living" applies here.

But since all the unsaved are in Hades/Sheol (Ps 9:17; Lk 16:23), and the bulk of humanity is unsaved, it should be evident that any claim about "the spirit returning to God" is false. The unsaved are spiritually dead, but their souls are in torment in Hades.

Yes, the spirit goes back to God upon our physical death as this body sleeps in the grave as the spirit is that veru breath of God that makes us a living soul.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Here dust + breath/spirit from God = a living soul. When the flesh dies physically it returns back to the dust of the ground and our spirit is preserved with God for final judgment.

Genesis 3:19 in the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Ecc 12:7 then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

There is a difference between the heavenly Jerusalem and the New Jerusalem that will be ushered down to earth in Rev 21. If you think of Jerusalem being the capital city there are three of them. The heavenly Jerusalem where God sits on His throne would be the capital of heaven in the heavenly realm. This is where the spirits of the righteous who have died are kept and reserved by God until the end of days. The Jerusalem here on this present earth is the capital located in Israel, but is evil and God will destroy the city with the rest of the nations during the seventh trumpet sounding. When this present heaven and earth are once again purified from all evil then God will usher down the New Jerusalem and there will God give us back the spirit that has gone back to Him that we will have everlasting life with Jesus.

 

[for_his_glory]

Those things which are “spirit,” therefore, are “eternal.”

At death, a man’s spirit returns to God who safe-keeps it until He decides what to do with it, in the future. This period of time is described in the Bible as “sleep.” We read in I Corinthians, “Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed – in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet, for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed” (I Cor.15:51-52).

Death is here described as “sleep.” Also, Paul said, “For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Christ” (I Thess.4:14). And, “For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him” (I Thess.5:9-10).

In other words, even though the body perishes in the grave, the spirit or soul of man – his essence or vitality which is composed of spirit – sleeps on, till the resurrection. It is, of course, alive, for spirit does not die or perish. It is in a state of unconsciousness, for the most part – but that “sleep” can be interrupted by changing circumstances or events, as are portrayed when the king of Babylon joins the rest of the dead, or when the souls of the righteous in heaven are disturbed, witnessing the great tribulation on the earth.

Can you show me in scripture where our spirit will be in a state of unconsciousness

 

[Malachi]

Yes, the spirit goes back to God upon our physical death as this body sleeps in the grave as the spirit is that veru breath of God that makes us a living soul.

If you persist in maintaining error in the face of Bible truth, there is not much more to be said. When people resist the light of Scripture, they do not receive more light. I have shown you from Scripture that what you believe is not consistent with New Testament truth, but you have decided to maintain your error.

 

[Malachi]

At death, a man’s spirit returns to God who safe-keeps it until He decides what to do with it, in the future. This period of time is described in the Bible as “sleep.”

This is not what the New Testament reveals. Please review my posts.

 

[reba]

We each voice our opinions and we each believe or think we are 'right' .. we each think we have the best knowledge of the Scripture ... We should all be more polite to each other... ADMIN

 

[GodsGrace]

Those things which are “spirit,” therefore, are “eternal.”

At death, a man’s spirit returns to God who safe-keeps it until He decides what to do with it, in the future. This period of time is described in the Bible as “sleep.” We read in I Corinthians, “Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed – in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet, for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed” (I Cor.15:51-52).

Death is here described as “sleep.” Also, Paul said, “For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Christ” (I Thess.4:14). And, “For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him” (I Thess.5:9-10).

In other words, even though the body perishes in the grave, the spirit or soul of man – his essence or vitality which is composed of spirit – sleeps on, till the resurrection. It is, of course, alive, for spirit does not die or perish. It is in a state of unconsciousness, for the most part – but that “sleep” can be interrupted by changing circumstances or events, as are portrayed when the king of Babylon joins the rest of the dead, or when the souls of the righteous in heaven are disturbed, witnessing the great tribulation on the earth.

Hi WalterandDebbie

We're getting into nuances here and I usually keep out.
But in the above highlighted (mine) pp you seem to be speaking of soul sleep. Am I wrong?
You say the soul or spirit "sleeps" and is in a state of unconsciousness.

This is incorrect Christian theology. The soul and spirit are either dead or they're alive. They don't "sleep".
You find the idea of sleep only in the O.T. because not all of the writers believed in the afterlife.

Jesus said that if we believe in Him, we shall not die but will live.
John 11:25

Paul says that to be absent from the body (physically dead) is to be present with the Lord. Referring to the soul and spirit.
2 Corinthians 5:8

At the end of time, at the resurrection to which you are referring, our glorified body will be united with the soul and spirit.

There is a denominations (have not checked into this) that believes in soul sleep, but it's not traditionally accepted theology.

Wondering

 

[GodsGrace]

I don't know what Young's Literal Translation is. I won't argue or debate what bible is better than another as everyone has their favorite, but what the important part is that one is allowing the Holy Spirit teach them truth and learn how to discern what spirit is speaking as only two are in effect. One is the Spirit of truth and the other the spirit of error. 1John 4:1-4. I like the Jerusalem Bible because of the language being close to the Hebrew language and also like the Apocrypha found in it.

Hi FHG
I'm not arguing which bible is best. You misunderstood my post, I fear.
I don't like to argue.
Young's Literal Translation takes the Greek language, in which the N.T. was written, and translates it word for word. It's not a readable version, as you could well imagine, it's only useful for study when knowing the EXACT verse's meaning is very important - or even a particular word, in the case "hell."

Regarding the Jerusalem bible...Did you know that the RCC is recommending to purchase a new bible if the one you have is translated before 2008? Because there are certain words which were incorrectly translated in the pre-2008 versions because they got the translation from the Latin vulgate instead of the original Greek language. As you might know, much is lost when translating - so you could imagine translating twice removed! Personally, I don't think it's necessary to run out and buy a new bible, but if you check you'll find that I'm right.

I'm going to PM you regarding the word hell.

Wondering

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi FHG
I'm not arguing which bible is best. You misunderstood my post, I fear.
I don't like to argue.
Young's Literal Translation takes the Greek language, in which the N.T. was written, and translates it word for word. It's not a readable version, as you could well imagine, it's only useful for study when knowing the EXACT verse's meaning is very important - or even a particular word, in the case "hell."

Regarding the Jerusalem bible...Did you know that the RCC is recommending to purchase a new bible if the one you have is translated before 2008? Because there are certain words which were incorrectly translated in the pre-2008 versions because they got the translation from the Latin vulgate instead of the original Greek language. As you might know, much is lost when translating - so you could imagine translating twice removed! Personally, I don't think it's necessary to run out and buy a new bible, but if you check you'll find that I'm right.

I'm going to PM you regarding the word hell.

Wondering

I know you weren't arguing which is the best as I do not like arguing either as I reserve that for my husband, LOL.
It kinda throws up a reg flag to me when the Church tells you to throw away a Bible as they tell you it has mistakes in it. Even the King James has its mistakes in the translation of words from the original to the English especially when our English holds various definitions for one word. The Jerusalem Bible was first written in the interpretations of the French language and then in 1966 was translated into English language using the original Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic definitions of the wording. Me personally I do not like the newer translations like the NKJV, NIV, etc. ect. The important thing is always allow the Holy Spirit interpret that of what we are reading as then we will always be safeguarded from error.

 

[GodsGrace]

I know you weren't arguing which is the best as I do not like arguing either as I reserve that for my husband, LOL.
It kinda throws up a reg flag to me when the Church tells you to throw away a Bible as they tell you it has mistakes in it. Even the King James has its mistakes in the translation of words from the original to the English especially when our English holds various definitions for one word. The Jerusalem Bible was first written in the interpretations of the French language and then in 1966 was translated into English language using the original Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic definitions of the wording. Me personally I do not like the newer translations like the NKJV, NIV, etc. ect. The important thing is always allow the Holy Spirit interpret that of what we are reading as then we will always be safeguarded from error.

Hi FHG
Did you ever hear of a bible called The Message? I don't recommend it for you but you should look into it - it's a bible written in "street" language and for today's youth who have a difficult time with some versions. It's interesting.

I can recommend Young's Literal Translation, however - I think you would like having it in your library for study purposes.

2 Timothy 3:16
There's much to learn!

Wondering

 

[for_his_glory]

If you persist in maintaining error in the face of Bible truth, there is not much more to be said. When people resist the light of Scripture, they do not receive more light. I have shown you from Scripture that what you believe is not consistent with New Testament truth, but you have decided to maintain your error.

Then we have no more to discuss with each other concerning this topic as it's not a matter of who is in error, but what and how we believe. This is why we discuss scripture without having any animosity towards one another as each one of us will be held accountable to God alone for that which we teach others. You are my brother in the Lord and I hold only love towards you in my heart.
God bless you and your family,
Debbie

 

[for_his_glory]

Hi FHG
Did you ever hear of a bible called The Message? I don't recommend it for you but you should look into it - it's a bible written in "street" language and for today's youth who have a difficult time with some versions. It's interesting.

I can recommend Young's Literal Translation, however - I think you would like having it in your library for study purposes.

2 Timothy 3:16
There's much to learn!

Wondering

Never heard of The Message, but thank you for bringing that to my attention. The first Bible I was given when I was 12 years old was the KJV and now that I am 61 that is all I have ever used as my main text of scripture. I use the Strong's Exhausted Concordance for the Hebrew and Greek definitions of certain words that helps me understand what I am reading. Everyone has their favorites, but even if we did not have the written word the Holy Spirit would still teach us all we need to learn as to what was spoken to Abraham by God is still spoken to us today. We will never exhaust Gods word, but for what we think we know we need to be sure that it is given to us by His Spirit.