What is a man?

[GodsGrace]

Butch5

Hi Sue,

In order to keep things in check can we address one issue at a time? I can and will gladly address all of the passages you've posted. To answer your first question. Every living being has the breath of God, both before and after the fall. The believer has it and the unbeliever has it. It's what gives life.

OK since you called it the breath of life.

The Holy Breath. I believe this is another aspect of God's breath. The Scriptures speak of the spirit/breath of wisdom, knowledge, etc. I believe these are all aspects of God's breath/spirit. Believers alone are given the Holy Breath. However, the Holy Breath really doesn't bear on the question of what a man is. A man is the same thing whether he has or doesn't have the Holy Breath.

I've never heard of the Holy Breath. Is there scripture for this?

I disagree that spirit means life. It means breath. It gives life, but doesn't mean life. The Greek and Hebrew words translated soul are often translated life

In Genesis 2:7 it states that God breathed the breath of LIFE into the man...not the breath of the spirit.

Could we try to stick to English unless it's really necessasry to get into other languages? I trust that bibles were translated in such a way as to make God be known to us.
YLT has Genesis 2:7 as life....the breath of LIFE.

We should stay with what scripture states and not change the wording as this will cause confusion.

Yes, the breath/spirit of every person returns to God. It's not just the believer. Again, we're not talking about the Holy Breath.

Regarding Job, I agree that God holds all things together. But that's not what Job is talking about. He's talking about God's breath keeping man alive. He said, if God were to retrieve His Neshamah and His ruach all flesh would die.

That is true also....
God holds everything together...EVERYTHING...even us.

Neshamah means the soul, but we're discussing the spirit now.
This is totally confusing and why we must stick to English and concentrate on one aspect at a time.

Of course if God takes our soul we die...

We're discussing what man is.

So far we have a BODY.

Can we agree that the Holy Spirit dwells within believers?
1 Corinthians 3:16
16Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

P.S. I'm not Sue.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi Sue,

It's also called dualism. The word has different meanings depending on the how it's used. Basically it mean two.

Yes, and this is what I mean about confusion.

Dualism can mean a separation of two things in philosophy,,,,body and mind.

But we're discussing theology....

What Is Dualism?

Dualism argues that there are two equal and opposing realities - good and evil. These forces are in an eternal battle with one another. There are a number of

www.blueletterbible.org

 

[GodsGrace]

The spirit isn't life. It gives life. The Breath of Life is in all flesh.

17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die. (Gen. 6:17 KJV)

Here God tells us that the breath of life is in all flesh.

Genesis 6:17 states the following:
17“Behold, I, even I am bringing the flood of water upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life, from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall perish.
NASB

17“Look! I am about to cover the earth with a flood that will destroy every living thing that breathes. Everything on earth will die.
NLB

The breath of life is in all flesh...
I'm understanding that you mean that all living things have the breath of life in them...this cannot be denied.

 

[GodsGrace]

I posted the link in post 37 Here is a link to it. Post 37

thanks!

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, and this is what I mean about confusion.

Dualism can mean a separation of two things in philosophy,,,,body and mind.

But we're discussing theology....

What Is Dualism?

Dualism argues that there are two equal and opposing realities - good and evil. These forces are in an eternal battle with one another. There are a number of

www.blueletterbible.org

Whoa! It's very lengthy.
I'll TRY to watch it on my TV.
It would be good to really understand what you believe because, to tell you the truth, it's rather confusing - most of all the terminology you use.

 

[Christ the King]

This is not really true. Check with your friendly local priest.
We're justified by God at the moment we are born again. The CC does use the term born again; no problem.
We RECEIVE our salvation at death

To be fair that is basically what I said.
The RCC doesn't believe in OSAS if that's what your trying to say. We all get judged
I confirmed this with a pastor and several other CC sources.
U may disagree but there no mistaking the RCC's position here, we don't do the OSAS.

Im going to step back now and just observe the conversation between u and Butch5.
The subject of the thread is slightly different as u pointed out and my knowledge isn't deep enough to advocate for any view

 

[GodsGrace]

To be fair that is basically what I said.
The RCC doesn't believe in OSAS if that's what your trying to say. We all get judged
I confirmed this with a pastor and several other CC sources.
U may disagree but there no mistaking the RCC's position here, we don't do the OSAS.

Im going to step back now and just observe the conversation between u and Butch5.
The subject of the thread is slightly different as u pointed out and my knowledge isn't deep enough to advocate for any view

Misunderstanding CtheK...
I never said the RCC believes in OSAS!!!
That's what confession is for!

I'm sorry you misunderstood.
I know Catholic doctrine very well.
I know the RCC does not do OSAS.

 

[GodsGrace]

To be fair that is basically what I said.
The RCC doesn't believe in OSAS if that's what your trying to say. We all get judged
I confirmed this with a pastor and several other CC sources.
U may disagree but there no mistaking the RCC's position here, we don't do the OSAS.

Im going to step back now and just observe the conversation between u and Butch5.
The subject of the thread is slightly different as u pointed out and my knowledge isn't deep enough to advocate for any view

P.S. I was saying that we can know NOW that we are saved....
I THOUGHT you said we have to wait till we're dead or words to that effect.

IF we are IN CHRIST we can know we are saved....
(at the foot of the cross).....

 

[Christ the King]

P.S. I was saying that we can know NOW that we are saved....
I THOUGHT you said we have to wait till we're dead or words to that effect.

IF we are IN CHRIST we can know we are saved....
(at the foot of the cross).....

I've been meditating in recent days about Sheol and Hades even b4 this thread was here.

U know the internet, ask it if Hades is hell and you'll find supporting articles, ask it if Sheol is the grave and again ul find supporting evidence and ask it if it's purgatory and u find the same thing.

An undeniable fact i find is that Sheol and Hades mean the same thing in Hebrew and Greek. There rest is up for discussion. I find the case for it being hell is weak. As for it being the grave that isn't a given and there are arguments saying its not, the Greeks have a different word for grave, same with Hebrew.

The most wide held belief that also has the best arguments in my opinion is that Hades is another place other than heaven or hell where the dead go.

The RCC calls that purgatory, the Orthodox calls it Hades. The rest of the theology is different but the 1st tenant is the same, ANOTHER PLACE OTHER THAN HEAVEN OR HELL

Im feel like such a fool. Im never questioning the RCC every again

 

[JLB]

I've been meditating in recent days about Sheol and Hades even b4 this thread was here.

U know the internet, ask it if Hades is hell and you'll find supporting articles, ask it if Sheol is the grave and again ul find supporting evidence and ask it if it's purgatory and u find the same thing.

An undeniable fact i find is that Sheol and Hades mean the same thing in Hebrew and Greek. There rest is up for discussion. I find the case for it being hell is weak. As for it being the grave that isn't a given and there are arguments saying its not, the Greeks have a different word for grave, same with Hebrew.

The most wide held belief that also has the best arguments in my opinion is that Hades is another place other than heaven or hell where the dead go.

The RCC calls that purgatory, the Orthodox calls it Hades. The rest of the theology is different but the 1st tenant is the same, ANOTHER PLACE OTHER THAN HEAVEN OR HELL

Im feel like such a fool. Im never questioning the RCC every again

And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire. Matthew 18:9


I haven’t found anything in the Bible about purgatory.

Just paradise, heaven, and hell.


Where does purgatory come from?

How is it different than hell?



JLB

 

[Butch5]

No sir.

We are not sons of God, unless we are born again.

Being born from our mother’s womb does not make us a son of God. We must be born again by the Spirit.

Adam was created as a son of God, then he fell.


Adam did not reproduce sons of God made in the image and likeness of God.

Adam reproduced sons of men, made in the image and likeness of Adam, who had fallen and now possessed sin in his physical body (a sin nature) which God does not have.



JLB

I don't see what this has to do with what I said. Was Adam a human being? Are we human beings?

 

[JLB]

I don't see what this has to do with what I said. Was Adam a human being? Are we human beings?

Adam is a human being, created directly by God.

He was created in the image and likeness of God.

The rest of mankind was procreated from Adam and Eve, in the image and likeness of man.


Is Jesus a human being?



JLB

 

[Butch5]

Adam is a human being, created directly by God.

He was created in the image and likeness of God.

The rest of mankind was procreated from Adam and Eve, in the image and likeness of man.


Is Jesus a human being?



JLB

Agrred, but you didnt answer my questions. Was Adam a human being? Are we human beings?

 

[JLB]

Was Adam a human being? Are we human beings?

People who are born of a woman are classified as human beings.

A woman, when she is in labor, has sorrow because her hour has come; but as soon as she has given birth to the child, she no longer remembers the anguish, for joy that a human being has been born into the world. John 16:21


In my opinion, Adam is a son of God created directly by God in His image and likeness.


Jesus is the Son of God, begotten of the Father, in which the scriptures say Adam was a type of Him to come.


Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
Romans 5:14


In my opinion Adam is human being, but a son of God, which I would say is a different class of human being.


My answer:

Adam is a human being.


However when you say are “we” human beings?

Who do you mean by “we”?


Is “we” everyone who came after Adam?

Explain who you mean by “we”.




JLB

 

[JLB]

Agrred, but you didnt answer my questions. Was Adam a human being? Are we human beings?

Is Jesus a human being?



JLB

 

[Butch5]

People who are born of a woman are classified as human beings.

A woman, when she is in labor, has sorrow because her hour has come; but as soon as she has given birth to the child, she no longer remembers the anguish, for joy that a human being has been born into the world. John 16:21


In my opinion, Adam is a son of God created directly by God in His image and likeness.


Jesus is the Son of God, begotten of the Father, in which the scriptures say Adam was a type of Him to come.


Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
Romans 5:14


In my opinion Adam is human being, but a son of God, which I would say is a different class of human being.


My answer:

Adam is a human being.


However when you say are “we” human beings?

Who do you mean by “we”?


Is “we” everyone who came after Adam?

Explain who you mean by “we”.




JLB

Are you and I a human being? We're the same thing Adam was. God said everything would reproduce after its own kind. Whatever Adam was his offspring are.

 

[Butch5]

Is Jesus a human being?



JLB

Yes

 

[GodsGrace]

I've been meditating in recent days about Sheol and Hades even b4 this thread was here.

U know the internet, ask it if Hades is hell and you'll find supporting articles, ask it if Sheol is the grave and again ul find supporting evidence and ask it if it's purgatory and u find the same thing.

An undeniable fact i find is that Sheol and Hades mean the same thing in Hebrew and Greek. There rest is up for discussion. I find the case for it being hell is weak. As for it being the grave that isn't a given and there are arguments saying its not, the Greeks have a different word for grave, same with Hebrew.

The most wide held belief that also has the best arguments in my opinion is that Hades is another place other than heaven or hell where the dead go.

The RCC calls that purgatory, the Orthodox calls it Hades. The rest of the theology is different but the 1st tenant is the same, ANOTHER PLACE OTHER THAN HEAVEN OR HELL

Im feel like such a fool. Im never questioning the RCC every again

This is a complicated subject matter ..... this is why I wished you good luck when you said you wanted to study it.

Hades is mentioned in Luke 16:19-31
Even early bibles and the Young's Literal Translation uses the word Hades.

So,,, we can be sure about
HEAVEN
We can be sure about
HELL

The problem you will face with Hades, if you keep studying, is that it no longer is present as "a place".

Please read it again and see what you get out of it. Luke 16:19-31
Please also read Matthew 27:48-51.
Jesus went to Hades to FREE THE SAVED PERSONS that were waiting in Abraham's Bossom.
They are in heaven now.
Hades no longer exists.....

Sheoul is the place of the dead where there is no life.
I'd forget about sheoul....

Come back and give us a report!!

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Whether we awake right after death and see God,
or whether we awaken at the resurrection,,,to us it would seem like the same thing....it would feel like no time spent inbetween.

I believe we go directly to be with God....
I wonder if this could be a separate thread?

I know the conversation has moved on, and sorry for not getting back sooner. But in this case, most of what I can say is the simple "I don't know." After we die if we don't go to heaven or an afterlife like place, there's no reason to say that we won't wait while knowing the time that passes.

I know I wondered about this a while ago, and more recently I can still say that I don't know. However I do think that we go to a heavenly place right away or at least fairly soon.

 

[GodsGrace]

I know the conversation has moved on, and sorry for not getting back sooner. But in this case, most of what I can say is the simple "I don't know." After we die if we don't go to heaven or an afterlife like place, there's no reason to say that we won't wait while knowing the time that passes.

I know I wondered about this a while ago, and more recently I can still say that I don't know. However I do think that we go to a heavenly place right away or at least fairly soon.

I agree with you.
When we die, we go directly to be where we should be.
THEN, at the resurrection, we will get back our body but it will be glorified (like Jesus').

Waiting makes no sense to me.