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What Is Baptism?

Allen Wynne said:
What you say is true.
The problem being far too many people on this forum judge negatively, it makes one wonder if they stand alone sometimes.
Click to expand...

To go along with the post above yours, I honestly think that when a person judges negatively - there is a serious lack of understanding in regards to sin. All to often we look at Christ dying for our sin, and even dying for the sins of others - but when it comes to sins that others commit against us.........that's a different story.

That eventually spills out to view others sins against other people, then eventually ends up with looking at others sins against God. In reality, its all sin against God, but we compartmentalize it.

This actually all ties back into baptism. :)

"Water" baptism is said to be intertwined with what takes place on the inside. Not that baptism in Christ cannot take place without water - it can - but the act of being immersed in water has a significance being the humans we are.

Just like marriage. Does a piece of paper, or a 'day' you had a ceremony, mean true marriage? Legally yes, but a couple goes through those things because they have decided to be united to each other already. If pictures of that day were to burn along with the piece of paper your license is written on - would that negate what took place or what is still taking place?

Peter said it this way;
1Pe 3:21
Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Its about a clean conscience. We are made up of heart, mind, and soul (inside our body). God does a work in our hearts with faith. It goes into our minds in belief, and then our soul - our conscience - expresses this with baptism in water. Peter said it is an "appeal" - literally an answer - but in depth, its an 'earnest seeking'.

What it really was meant for was a kind of pathway of faith to grow. It was never meant for just a ritual. It was a response to the call of God in our life, and a response that says, "I hear you, I want more". That's what water baptism is about.

Somewhere along the line it turned into a ritual, just like everything else, and people see it as a 'work' they do(even if they don't admit they think of it that way).
 
Nathan said:
To go along with the post above yours, I honestly think that when a person judges negatively - there is a serious lack of understanding in regards to sin. All to often we look at Christ dying for our sin, and even dying for the sins of others - but when it comes to sins that others commit against us.........that's a different story.

That eventually spills out to view others sins against other people, then eventually ends up with looking at others sins against God. In reality, its all sin against God, but we compartmentalize it.

This actually all ties back into baptism. :)

"Water" baptism is said to be intertwined with what takes place on the inside. Not that baptism in Christ cannot take place without water - it can - but the act of being immersed in water has a significance being the humans we are.

Just like marriage. Does a piece of paper, or a 'day' you had a ceremony, mean true marriage? Legally yes, but a couple goes through those things because they have decided to be united to each other already. If pictures of that day were to burn along with the piece of paper your license is written on - would that negate what took place or what is still taking place?

Peter said it this way;
1Pe 3:21
Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Its about a clean conscience. We are made up of heart, mind, and soul (inside our body). God does a work in our hearts with faith. It goes into our minds in belief, and then our soul - our conscience - expresses this with baptism in water. Peter said it is an "appeal" - literally an answer - but in depth, its an 'earnest seeking'.

What it really was meant for was a kind of pathway of faith to grow. It was never meant for just a ritual. It was a response to the call of God in our life, and a response that says, "I hear you, I want more". That's what water baptism is about.

Somewhere along the line it turned into a ritual, just like everything else, and people see it as a 'work' they do(even if they don't admit they think of it that way).
Click to expand...
Maybe baptism is like marriage.
Does that piece of paper make a difference?
I believe it does.

It changes things. I know two couples that lived together happily. After getting married, they could no longer get along.

Jesus didn't mean it to be a ritual.
He said to preach the gospel AND to baptize.

Water. He is the water that if you drink, you never thirst again.
Is baptism water for our spirit?
 
wondering said:
Maybe baptism is like marriage.
Does that piece of paper make a difference?
I believe it does.

It changes things. I know two couples that lived together happily. After getting married, they could no longer get along.

Jesus didn't mean it to be a ritual.
He said to preach the gospel AND to baptize.

Water. He is the water that if you drink, you never thirst again.
Is baptism water for our spirit?
Click to expand...

I think the paper makes a difference only in your mind, not that its a bad thing that is. Used to, when people got a piece of paper in a marriage, it was for divorce - not the initial marriage. :)

I think you can interchange spirit and soul, and it often is done that way in the Bible, so yes, the baptism water is for our spirit. Not that it does something 'mystical', but just that it gives significance to what is taking place in your heart and mind.

What is more important is the true baptism(being transformed into a pickle) going on inside you.

We need a pickle emoji. :)
 
wondering said:
Wrg

You've explained perfectly the baptism in the spirit.
We are baptised into the spirit of christ so that His spirit is infused and joined to ours.
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Wondering that is the way it should be.

So often we can blot out others because we focus on asking God to sort us out.

Now I'm not saying it's wrong to ask God to sort us out, deal with our issues. He loves to do that.
But the problem arises when he does deal with an issue we have we just go on to the next one and the next one.

We retract into this position but don't realise that actually maybe God wants us to come alongside others who struggle with the same things that God has dealt with or healed us from.

My case point here is as follows.

I had a severe gambling problem, when I say severe I mean severe. I am 48. From the age of 5 to 42 gambling was in my life.

So much guilt I carried around. For 25 years I woke up at 2 am in the morning with this guilt and thinking I was going to hell. In fact I asked God to take my life.

I have not gambled for 6 years, not even been tempted.

What changed?

I did Freedom in Christ. When I realised who I am in Christ things started to change.

As I prayed about my gambling God revealed why I was gambling. The reasons are alongside the poor returns guy I mentioned in my previous post.

Anyway God miraculously healed me of my gambling.

So what did I do? I grumbled about another area in my life I didn't like and asked God to help me.

He said NOT YET I WANT YOU TO HELP OTHERS.

So I said ok, a week later an employee came and asked me for a loan, a big one. I said yes but then I felt God say "ask her why she need to loan" I did that and it turns out her husband had a severe gambling problem. I called him up and he agree to meet up. Just walked with him, explained how God helped me to understand why I gambled.

Shared the gospel with him. He has not become a Christian yet but for the last 4 years he ain't gambled. Maybe he has come to realise what causes him to gamble, I think he has but as I've said to him, why cope with it when God can heal it.

Now I'm helping someone with sexual abuse issues (Not the first one).

God promises to work good in all things, in order to conform us to the image of Christ.
That purpose is for us be like Christ to others.
 
wondering said:
Maybe baptism is like marriage.
Does that piece of paper make a difference?
I believe it does.

It changes things. I know two couples that lived together happily. After getting married, they could no longer get along.

Jesus didn't mean it to be a ritual.
He said to preach the gospel AND to baptize.

Water. He is the water that if you drink, you never thirst again.
Is baptism water for our spirit?
Click to expand...

The paper does make a difference. However you say after getting married they no longer get along.

To me the reason being is that in the mind thought the paper is just paper. If we don't get along let's tear the paper up and get divorced.

When one is united with Christ it's a marriage. God makes the covenant with us, we accept this covenant.
As I said baptism does not save us but baptism is us entering this covenant. A spiritual marker.

Romans 10:9-10
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

That's the new covenant, it's based on the covenant maker, and that ain't us. It's God
 
wondering said:
LOL
Deleted

Wrigley
You bring up interesting points.
I need time to answer. I'm cooking this evening. For Easter.
Any speciality by you?
Click to expand...
In the morning an English Breakfast.

In the evening Crispy Aromatic duck of Cispy Mongolian lamb.

Any chance of a symnell cake?
 
Wrg1405 said:
The paper does make a difference. However you say after getting married they no longer get along.

To me the reason being is that in the mind thought the paper is just paper. If we don't get along let's tear the paper up and get divorced.

When one is united with Christ it's a marriage. God makes the covenant with us, we accept this covenant.
As I said baptism does not save us but baptism is us entering this covenant. A spiritual marker.

Romans 10:9-10
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

That's the new covenant, it's based on the covenant maker, and that ain't us. It's God
Click to expand...
More good points. The new covenant.
The old, or mosaic covenant.
Water. The crossing of the red Sea.
From slavery to freedom.
When we get baptized we die to ourselves and come to life in Christ.
From slavery to freedom...
 
wondering said:
More good points. The new covenant.
The old, or mosaic covenant.
Water. The crossing of the red Sea.
From slavery to freedom.
When we get baptized we die to ourselves and come to life in Christ.
From slavery to freedom...
Click to expand...

Galatians 5:1

Freedom in Christ
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
 
Nathan said:
Ok, fair enough.

The clear picture of two different meanings is seen in John

Jhn 1:33
I myself did not know him, but he who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this is he who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.

The two different uses is found in Acts

Act 1:5
for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”


Act 19:1-7
And it happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the inland
And he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They said, “Into John’s baptism.”
And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.” On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking in tongues and prophesying.
There were about twelve men in all.

Paul clearly asked, "Into what then were you baptized?". Now, if they were speaking about water, wouldn't it make sense that the people answering would have said "water"? :) Seeing how they understood what Paul was asking, about what teaching they were 'immersed' in, they told him the teaching of John's - which was that of repentance.

But we know that repentance is just the first step in becoming a Christ follower, so Paul then "baptized" them - again by teaching - into the the name of the Lord Jesus, which is that of faith in the Savior. This is the most clear example of the two different meanings when you leave the verses in their context. Pulled out and you can make all kinds of different meanings.
Click to expand...

Thank you, Nathan, for providing this biblical support.

However, what about your statement: 'so Paul then "baptized" them - again by teaching - into the the name of the Lord Jesus, which is that of faith in the Savior'. Where do I find the teaching that baptism is 'by teaching' in Scripture.

I do know that baptism was part of discipleship according to Matt 28:19-20 (NLT): '19 Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. 20 Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you. And be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”'

This does not teach that baptism is by teaching, but is an important dimension of discipleship.

Oz
 
OzSpen said:
Thank you, Nathan, for providing this biblical support.

However, what about your statement: 'so Paul then "baptized" them - again by teaching - into the the name of the Lord Jesus, which is that of faith in the Savior'. Where do I find the teaching that baptism is 'by teaching' in Scripture.

I do know that baptism was part of discipleship according to Matt 28:19-20 (NLT): '19 Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. 20 Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you. And be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”'

This does not teach that baptism is by teaching, but is an important dimension of discipleship.

Oz
Click to expand...
I agree Oz.
When Jesus spoke, He said important things.
He said to preach the good news and to baptize.
He said to wait in Jerusalem because the Holy Spirit would give the disciples the strength they needed.
We say that the baptism of fire is the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

Symbolically it's us dying to ourselves.
Why would Jesus command this if it were not so important?
 
Sorry it's Simnel cake

100_0777-simnel-cake.jpg
 
OzSpen said:
Thank you, Nathan, for providing this biblical support.

However, what about your statement: 'so Paul then "baptized" them - again by teaching - into the the name of the Lord Jesus, which is that of faith in the Savior'. Where do I find the teaching that baptism is 'by teaching' in Scripture.

I do know that baptism was part of discipleship according to Matt 28:19-20 (NLT): '19 Therefore, go and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. 20 Teach these new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you. And be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”'

This does not teach that baptism is by teaching, but is an important dimension of discipleship.

Oz
Click to expand...

Are you speaking of physical baptism in water or spiritual baptism in the sense of discipleship?

If it's the baptism of discipleship, we have to look no further than the word "baptize".

The word used in Matthew, by Jesus, means to place something into something else, and have whatever it is placed into, to become apart of that which is placed into it.

That's a mouthful. :)

That's why it's easier to use the analogy of the cucumber/pickle. If you were to take Jesus literally, in the case of saying it's water, then He was telling His disciples to drown the person in water, because the word used means to leave the object in the substance till it becomes apart of it.

However, when you apply it to the meaning of the word, He was telling His disciples to immerse those who they were teaching in the name(essence of) the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. In context this becomes clear because they were to do that, and to teach them everything Christ taught.
 
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