What is "church"?

[Free]

Free,

My family's doctrine is the Bible. My family's pastor is Bible. I don't have to accomodate others' belief or casted out out because we don't agree with them.

No, we will not get any help from other believers but Lord is sufficient and He is enabling us to help other worthy organizatin such as VOM on regular basis. My family, VOM and my ministry is my fellowship.

Because we don't relying on the churches teachings, my family is happy and poweful for the Lord, and my two teen agers don't have any typical problems like many teenagers get into such as drugs and sex and other secular problems. Praise the Lord!!!! :angel:

And that is one of the easiest ways for errors to get into one's beliefs. Perhaps it is a problem with authority, God-given authority even. That your teens don't get involved with worldy things (as far as you know) is irrelevant to the fact that you don't go to church.

 

[gingercat]

And that is one of the easiest ways for errors to get into one's beliefs. Perhaps it is a problem with authority, God-given authority even. That your teens don't get involved with worldy things (as far as you know) is irrelevant to the fact that you don't go to church.[/quote]


Free, How do we know if we are in line with the Lord?

By our fruit! If He is supporting your christianity He is with you; You are in lie with the Lord. It is so easy but many people make excuses. They don't even know what to look for to discern what is right or wrong.

Talk is cheap, free. Do you know if your church is in line with Him? Have you ever looked through your churche's fruit? Do you know how to look for?

 

[Free]

And what is "fruit" to you gingercat? How would you define it and what are some examples?

 

[gingercat]

And what is "fruit" to you gingercat? How would you define it and what are some examples?

I asked you first. From my obsevation, most of the churchgoers don't know what the fruit is. I am wondering if you know. :-?

 

[Solo]

And what is "fruit" to you gingercat? How would you define it and what are some examples?

I asked you first. From my obsevation, most of the churchgoers don't know what the fruit is. I am wondering if you know. :-?

Oh now come on. Don't play that ole childish game with Free. He asked you, who claims to be a powerful believer in Jesus Christ, a question concerning your continued statement about fruits, and you can't answer him. That is pretty stinky fruit! :-?

 

[gingercat]

And what is "fruit" to you gingercat? How would you define it and what are some examples?

I asked you first. From my obsevation, most of the churchgoers don't know what the fruit is. I am wondering if you know. :-?

Oh now come on. Don't play that ole childish game with Free. He asked you, who claims to be a powerful believer in Jesus Christ, a question concerning your continued statement about fruits, and you can't answer him. That is pretty stinky fruit! :-?

Solo,

I have been speaking about fruit of chrstianity just about every thread. Please don't treat me some kind of fruit cake.

I am wondering if you know. :wink:

 

[Solo]

And what is "fruit" to you gingercat? How would you define it and what are some examples?

I asked you first. From my obsevation, most of the churchgoers don't know what the fruit is. I am wondering if you know. :-?

Oh now come on. Don't play that ole childish game with Free. He asked you, who claims to be a powerful believer in Jesus Christ, a question concerning your continued statement about fruits, and you can't answer him. That is pretty stinky fruit! :-?

Solo,

I have been speaking about fruit of chrstianity just about every thread. Please don't treat me some kind of fruit cake.

I am wondering if you know. :wink:

I know you have been speaking about fruit of Christianity, but no one knows what you are talking about because you have not defined your perception of fruit, nor have you given any examples.

Free is asking you to define what fruit is to you, and to give some examples. I wouldn't call you a fruit cake.

 

[mutzrein]

Gingercat

You are certainly not nutty as a fruitcake. I would just say 'sweet.' :wink:

As regards fruit - are you not talking about the fruit of the Spirit? Which of course should be evident if we claim to have the Spirit. Or are you talking about 'works' which stem from faith?

 

[gingercat]

Gingercat

You are certainly not nutty as a fruitcake. I would just say 'sweet.' :wink:

As regards fruit - are you not talking about the fruit of the Spirit? Which of course should be evident if we claim to have the Spirit. Or are you talking about 'works' which stem from faith?

Thanks for your kindness as usual, Ed, :D

I am talking about works. It of course includes the fruit of spirit.

We should be kinder, gentler, better parents, better neighbours, have kids who don't get into trouble like secular kids, better spouses, better friends, better evangelists, godlier, holier, etc..

In a nut shell we should be godlier and more like Christ as days and years go by.

 

[Solo]

Gingercat

You are certainly not nutty as a fruitcake. I would just say 'sweet.' :wink:

As regards fruit - are you not talking about the fruit of the Spirit? Which of course should be evident if we claim to have the Spirit. Or are you talking about 'works' which stem from faith?

Thanks for your kindness as usual, Ed, :D

I am talking about works. It of course includes the fruit of spirit.

We should be kinder, gentler, better parents, better neighbours, have kids who don't get into trouble like secular kids, better spouses, better friends, better evangelists, godlier, holier, etc..

In a nut shell we should be godlier and more like Christ as days and years go by.

Just like all of the folks in my Church. They have these fruits and more. Thank you for the final definition. :wink:

 

[Relic]

.

Did someone say nutty fruitcake? :D
sometimes you feel like a nut and sometimes you don't.
oh the fruits of the cake. nuts or not! I love fruit cake! :-D

just kidding :P

==========


And the fruits of the spirit.... they are the best! Below are a few appropo scriptures from a home school bible study. :D

Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Love: John 3:16
1 John 4:19
We love him, because he first loved us.

1 John 4:7-8
7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.


Joy:
Philippians 4:4
Rejoice in the Lord always: and again I say, Rejoice.

Psalm 30:5
For his anger endureth but a moment; in his favour is life: weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning.

Luke 15:7
I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.


Peace:
Psalm 4:8
I will both lay me down in peace, and sleep: for thou, LORD, only makest me dwell in safety.

Isaiah 26:3
Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.

Philippians 4:7
And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.


Longsuffering:
1 Thessalonians 5:14
Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men.


Gentleness:
2 Timothy 2:24
And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

Titus 3:2
To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.


Goodness:
Hebrews 13:16
But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


Faith:
Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Deuteronomy 7:9
Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

Luke 16:10
He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.


Meekness:
Galatians 6:1
Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

1 Peter 3:15
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

1 Peter 3:4
But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.


Temperance:
James 1:19
Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:

Proverbs 23:1
When thou sittest to eat with a ruler, consider diligently what is before thee:



Wow! That's a lot of lovin! :bday:
Being a Christian is a daily discipline! 8-)

In the words of Jesus:
Luke 9:23
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.


Yep, we sure do need to take up our cross daily!

Imagine if each of us mastered the scriptures above.

Yep, we are all a life-long work in progress! :angel:

:D

.

 

[gingercat]

Amen :angel: , relic,

 

[Free]

We should be kinder, gentler, better parents, better neighbours, have kids who don't get into trouble like secular kids, better spouses, better friends, better evangelists, godlier, holier, etc..

In a nut shell we should be godlier and more like Christ as days and years go by.

So please tell me how an orthodox believing church differs from a Mormon or JW church according to your definition. I would be willing to bet that their fruit is better than yours and many orthodox Christian churches, but they certainly are not Christian.

 

[gingercat]

We should be kinder, gentler, better parents, better neighbours, have kids who don't get into trouble like secular kids, better spouses, better friends, better evangelists, godlier, holier, etc..

In a nut shell we should be godlier and more like Christ as days and years go by.

So please tell me how an orthodox believing church differs from a Mormon or JW church according to your definition. I would be willing to bet that their fruit is better than yours and many orthodox Christian churches, but they certainly are not Christian.

It is up to God to judge. If we are Christians, first thing we have do is to look for the fruit! If you are not showing the fruit, no matter how your theology is biblically sound, it does not count! Talk is cheap!

 

[Henry]

Free

And that is one of the easiest ways for errors to get into one's beliefs. Perhaps it is a problem with authority, God-given authority even. That your teens don't get involved with worldy things (as far as you know) is irrelevant to the fact that you don't go to church.

What problem with authority? The mantra of the average building church is that the bible is authority and here is a Christian that lives that out.

I think it is you who have a misunderstanding of what God given authority is all about.

So please tell me how an orthodox believing church differs from a Mormon or JW church according to your definition. I would be willing to bet that their fruit is better than yours and many orthodox Christian churches, but they certainly are not Christian.

Oh you are missing the point all together. Imagine buying a carmel apple and it looks so good to eat, and yet when you bite into it, it is rotten.

Sure we can see the fruits of those other but can we know if is rotten inside, can we know the heart behind the act.

You see, a true fruit of the spirit is not so much about the act but the heart that is behind the act. Which is a LOVE. The mormons and JW both have fruits but they do the things they do for reward, to be gods or what ever.

The true Christian just does them with out thinking, it is just the way things are.

What my you are missing here is that God knows the heart and if the fruits are from heart in love, He will know that. And if not He will know that too.

Jesus Himself said that by our love one for another they will know we are His disciples.

May the mormon does more good works, and really they do, but is it the fruit of Love or of reward? That is the real question, is it rotten inside or sweet to eat?

I would rather one good apple over a hundred rotten ones, no matter how shining they are on the out side.

Oh and about bad theology, the IC teaches that God has made pastors to take care of the flock NOT IN THE BIBLE, and the IC teaches that its people to give a tenth to them or be cursed by God. NOT IN THE BIBLE.

Those are some pretty rotten apples.

 

[Vic C.]

Sorry for chiming in late in this thread; been a bit busy and am still catching up on post reading.

I disagree with you becasue the Bible tells us to not to have anything to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness.

Would this be the very same ones in darkness that Jesus ministered to in His day?

Cat, I haven't had too much interaction with you, but do notice there are a lot of "I's" in your posts.

I am against OSAS, Calvinism, Mary and pope worshipping, military and etc... I will not compromise anything less. I am not a loner. I have been supporting worthy ministry and I am with may fmily and I also have my own ministry. I count them good deal as my quality Church.

We have to wait on His judgement who is deceived or not. :angel:

Now, lets compare that to this:

Luke 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luke 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luke 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

Am I the only one to see the similarities?

People, lets avoid all this 'I do this' and 'I do that' talk...

Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

It's not very becoming as a Christian to talk like this. :-? It looks and sounds all too High and Lofty and a lot like boasting.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Sincere faith comes first and trumps any form of works.

 

[thessalonian]

Vic, for the most part I applaud your post. Not sure why we have to drive a wedge between faith and works though. Works done in faith are God working in us. Such works are not inferior to faith. We most certainly should not boast of them because without his grace they are in fact filthy rags. Yet with his grace I am not sure we should insult his work in and through us. (see eph 3:20-21)

 

[gingercat]

Vic,

You sound like pop pschatrist. :-?

I am here for my convictions. You sound like offended by them. What's wrong with talking about the fruit? Talk is cheap and if you talk without fruit you are focusing away from real problem. Of course it seems that most of us don't want to focus problesms. :-?

Vic, you have to remember that all good things comes from God, we cannot do anything good not even one, remeber?

It sounds as if you don't like how this thread is going. Why are you focusing away from topic?

 

[Solo]

Vic,

You sound like pop pschatrist. :-?

I am here for my convictions. You sound like offended by them. What's wrong with talking about the fruit? Talk is cheap and if you talk without fruit you are focusing away from real problem. Of course it seems that most of us don't want to focus problesms. :-?

Vic, you have to remember that all good things comes from God, we cannot do anything good not even one, remeber?

It sounds as if you don't like how this thread is going. Why are you focusing away from topic?

Your talk on this forum has fruits. Let me describe to you what they are:

hatred (deep-seated dislike), variance (bitter discension), emulations (envious, contentious rivalry; jealousy), wrath (anger forthwith boiling up and soon subsiding again), strife (lack of agreement or harmony), seditions (discension, division), heresies (following their own tenets - sect), and Envyings (painful or resentful awareness of an advantage enjoyed by another joined with a desire to possess the same advantage).

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another. Galatians 5:19-26

 

[Free]

We should be kinder, gentler, better parents, better neighbours, have kids who don't get into trouble like secular kids, better spouses, better friends, better evangelists, godlier, holier, etc..

In a nut shell we should be godlier and more like Christ as days and years go by.

So please tell me how an orthodox believing church differs from a Mormon or JW church according to your definition. I would be willing to bet that their fruit is better than yours and many orthodox Christian churches, but they certainly are not Christian.

It is up to God to judge. If we are Christians, first thing we have do is to look for the fruit! If you are not showing the fruit, no matter how your theology is biblically sound, it does not count! Talk is cheap!

But you seem to ignore the fact that the opposite is true as well. If your theology isn't biblically sound, it doesn't matter how good your fruit may appear to be. You cannot separate the two.

What problem with authority? The mantra of the average building church is that the bible is authority and here is a Christian that lives that out.

So if "the average building church" teaches that the Bible is the authority and you are applauding gingercat for living that out, then why are you so against "building churches"?

The problem I see here is that gingercat doesn't like to be told what to believe, which is the same as many people who reject the traditional notion of church. She has admitted such several times.

Oh you are missing the point all together. Imagine buying a carmel apple and it looks so good to eat, and yet when you bite into it, it is rotten.

Sure we can see the fruits of those other but can we know if is rotten inside, can we know the heart behind the act.

Actually, gingercat is missing the point. The whole point in my asking her about Mormon or JW churches is that she judges by fruit alone. If that is the case, then I could judge some atheists to be true Christians.

You see, a true fruit of the spirit is not so much about the act but the heart that is behind the act. Which is a LOVE. The mormons and JW both have fruits but they do the things they do for reward, to be gods or what ever.

But that is the whole point Henry. By your last sentence you have just moved beyond merely judging fruit, you are now judging the motives of the heart. And this is something that gingercat wants to ignore.

Oh and about bad theology, the IC teaches that God has made pastors to take care of the flock NOT IN THE BIBLE

Imagine that, a shepherd taking care of a flock. How unbiblical... :-? Just what do you think God's purpose is in giving people the gift of being a pastor?