gingercat said:
Free said:
The problem I see here is that gingercat doesn't like to be told what to believe, which is the same as many people who reject the traditional notion of church. She has admitted such several times.
Free,
Jesus is telling many things what to do to me every day in His NT. I just don't obey people who are not showing much fruit.
The Bible tells us to look for the fruit. This is very simple. Why do you keep avoiding it?
You have thousands of doctrines and denominations. That proves thousands of deceptiveness. Truth is only one. The only way to find the true church is to look for the fruit. Do you get it? I already told you that my church is my family, VOM and my ministry. I know you don't want to accept anything less than your traditional mentality of "church" which I wholeheartedly disagree.
And yet by doing things "your own way" all you have done is created another break in His Church. You are once again doing the very thing you accuse others of doing. When are you actually going to address these contradictions in your beliefs that I've pointed out?
HisFriend said:
That is absolutely and unequivocally dead wrong. You have it completely backwards.
"Absolutely and unequivocally dead wrong," is it? Do you really want to be that adamant about it, that wrong belief leads to wrong practice? Do you need me to give you an example? Think about it as you read through the rest of this post.
HisFriend said:
God is not going to be giving you a theology test on judgment day my friend. If you think God is going to judge you or anyone by the thoughts you had then you are living in a fantasy world. Theology is not a bad thing but neither is eating halibut steak.
So do you
really think that if two people have the exact same outward fruit but one believes that Jesus is God and the other that Jesus was a mere man, that that means nothing? What if one believes that Jesus didn't physically rise from the dead, another that Jesus never really died and a third that believes Jesus died and rose aagain? To be consistent you now have to admit that that is all meaningless, as long as they all have good fruit.
But a quick glance at the NT proves you wrong. Look at the huge importance Paul, John and Peter place on believing the right thing. Look at the importance Christ himself put on believing the right thing.
HisFriend said:
It will be fruits on which Judgment day is based. His fruit in your life or your own fruit that leads to destruction. Read Matthew 25 and learn how to give the little ones a cup of water to drink. And then you mighty be lucky enough to be watching the "Lord, Lord" theologians be cast into the fire.
How about you post your Scriptural proof and then I'll post mine.
Believers are judged on the basis of their fruits,
unbelievers are judged on the very fact that they are not
believers. This most certainly implies that there are certain things to be believed in order to become a believer, things which if not believed makes one an unbeliever.
HisFriend said:
In fact, Paul makes it abundantly clear to the Corinthians and those who are willing to understand, that theology is a wisdom on a human level that is foolishness to God -child's play. On the other hand, the way of Christ in suffering and love is the Wisdom of God. And that is what Paul means by becoming mature in Christ.
Again, you post your Scriptural proof and then I'll post mine. I strongly recommend you read the whole passage in which Paul makes this supposed statement to get the real meaning of what he says.
I will restate this because it needs restating:
wrong belief leads to wrong practice. Perhaps I should also add that wrong belief can lead to the wrong Christ and the wrong God, in which case any good fruit was in vain.
Henry said:
You are very talented at reading into things, I am not the judge of anyones heart nor do I want to be.
I didn't read into anything. I'll even repost it so that I can point it out more clearly: "You see, a true fruit of the spirit is not so much about the act
but the heart that is behind the act. Which is a LOVE. The mormons and JW both have fruits
but they do the things they do for reward, to be gods or what ever."
You said it with your own mouth Henry - "the heart that is behind the act".
Henry said:
The modern office of the church pastor is totally unbiblical you are correct finally. Oh and the gift of pastor is not in the list, he calls men to be leaders by example not by rule and never is one ever called by such titles, actually Jesus said not to use titles.
I'll let you put two and two together:
1Co 12:29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?
And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, (Ephesians 4:11)
And please post the passage where Jesus said not to use titles. And you haven't answered the point that shepherds look after the sheep.
