What is Reformed Theology?

[Rodger]

Maybe you could share from your own perspective, what you have discovered by reading the scriptures, as to what Reformed Theology is?

I see the teachings of Christ in the New Testament expressed through His apostles as being what we as Christians are called to study and apply to our individual life’s.

Is Reformed Theology a “Reformation” of the New Testament scriptures?

Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. John 8:31

The Reformers themselves of the Protestant Reformation traced their doctrine to Scripture, as indicated by their credo of “sola scriptura,” so Reformed theology is not a “new” belief system but one that seeks to continue apostolic doctrine.

The Reformed doctrine of salvation is commonly represented by the acrostic TULIP which is also known as the five points of Calvinism.

T - total depravity. Man is completely helpless in his sinful state, is under the wrath of God.
U - unconditional election. God, from eternity past, has chosen to save a great multitude of sinners.
L - limited atonement. Also called a “particular redemption.”
I - irresistible grace. In his fallen state, man resists God’s love, but the grace of God works to save.
P - perseverance of the saints. God protects His saints from falling away; thus, salvation is eternal.

Personally, I have a problem with the "L" or limited atonement.

The Bible teaches. .......
1) The call of the gospel is universal and believers in it will be saved.
2) Because all have sin, no one will believe the gospel and respond in faith unless God first makes those who are dead in their trespasses and sins alive.

The Bible teaches that “whosoever believes” will have eternal life and then explains why some believe and some don’t.

1 John 2:2........ John says that Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the “whole world.”
Likewise, in John 4:42 Jesus is called the “Savior of the world”.
John 1:29 is said to “take way the sin of the world.”

Yet another argument against limited atonement is that it is a hindrance to the preaching of the gospel and to evangelism. If an Preacher cannot say, “Christ died for you,” then his effectiveness in presenting the gospel will be limited. Or they will say that, if only the elect will be saved, why should the gospel be preached at all?
Source:https://www.gotquestions.org/limited-atonement.html

 

[electedbyHim]

Here’s what I understand.


Jesus admonished us to remain in Him.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Jesus plainly stated that if anyone does not remain in Him they would be gather up and thrown into the fire and burned.




Here is how we are instructed to remain in Him.

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

How do you relate that to Reformed Theology?

 

[Arial]

Personally, I have a problem with the "L" or limited atonement.

I understand why people will agree with TUIP and have a problem with the L-limited atonement which as you say is sometimes (and more accurately) particular atonement. But that wouldn't spell "tulip." But if one believes in total depravity and unconditional election, then particular atonement must be true. And if one discards the "L" then they also must do away with irresistible grace. And perseverance of the saints then rests on shaky ground. Remember this acronym is expressing the doctrines of grace. It is dealing solely with sorteriology and is the grace of "by grace you have been saved." So removing any of them jeopardizes grace.

Also, even if one says atonement is not limited, a limited atonement of a far more detrimental nature to grace, and the work of Christ on the cross, still exists. His sacrifice becomes limited to only those who choose him. Grace becomes not irresistible---that is effectual---to being subject to the will of men. At which point it again ceases to be grace.

The Bible teaches. .......
1) The call of the gospel is universal and believers in it will be saved.
2) Because all have sin, no one will believe the gospel and respond in faith unless God first makes those who are dead in their trespasses and sins alive.

1. It is universal in that it is not restricted to place or types of people. Those who believe, and in the TULIP they are the elect, will be saved.
2. Who else but God has the power to raise the dead to life? These again, are the elect.

The Bible teaches that “whosoever believes” will have eternal life and then explains why some believe and some don’t.

1 John 2:2........ John says that Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the “whole world.”
Likewise, in John 4:42 Jesus is called the “Savior of the world”.
John 1:29 is said to “take way the sin of the world.”

1. The whole world but not all persons without exception, otherwise he would be the propitiation for everyone and everyone's sins would be expiated even without faith.
2. There is not other saviour for anyone anywhere but Jesus.
3. In the consummation, the coming of the perfect, sin will be taken away from all creation.

Yet another argument against limited atonement is that it is a hindrance to the preaching of the gospel and to evangelism. If an Preacher cannot say, “Christ died for you,” then his effectiveness in presenting the gospel will be limited. Or they will say that, if only the elect will be saved, why should the gospel be preached at all?

This is a fallacious argument. A preacher should not be saying "Christ died for you." and it is not the singular way in which the gospel can be presented. Christ died to to conquer sin and death for those who believe. It is Christ who must be preached. Who he is and what he did, and how he did it. The believing part is up to God. Election does not even need to enter into that gospel preaching. Those are things that are learned as we grow and study. The effectiveness of our presenting the gospel is not up to us. Our job is to present it and present it correctly. "His sheep hear his voice and follow him". Those who are not his sheep may hear but do not understand and so do not believe. Jesus said the same to the Pharisees in John 10, when not even the miracles he was doing persuaded them. "You do not believe," he said, "because you are not my sheep."

And again in John 6 when he said there were some who did not believe and why he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father."

 

[jasonc]

Glad I don't have such a protest to what was a proper way to correct romanist error .

Btw Lutheranism is considered reformed theology as martin Luther started the attempt .I'm not Lutheran but Luther is quoted often in Calvinism .

A mighty fortress is Our God is in my church hymnal and that is from Luther . Several others did he write . This doesn't mean he was perfect in his theology .

 

[JLB]

The Reformers themselves of the Protestant Reformation traced their doctrine to Scripture

Maybe they did.

However like every denomination, their theology seems to focus or identify with scriptural ideological concepts that are a mixture of the tradition (teachings) of man and the word of God {scripture}.

This always produces a schism or sect; which is a division of "Christianity".

TULIP is that Foundational Core within the "Reformed Theology".

T - total depravity. Man is completely helpless in his sinful state, is under the wrath of God.
U - unconditional election. God, from eternity past, has chosen to save a great multitude of sinners.
L - limited atonement. Also called a “particular redemption.”
I - irresistible grace. In his fallen state, man resists God’s love, but the grace of God works to save.
P - perseverance of the saints. God protects His saints from falling away; thus, salvation is eternal.


These definitions may have some "elements" of truth, but are a concoction of the blend of the teachings of man and the word of God.

As I have shown in previous threads on this subject, a careful examination of the five core concepts shows them to tainted with man made teachings.

In the term total depravity we see the idea that man is totally depraved, while at the same time man is not
utterly depraved.

Totally and utterly are synonymous with each other.

Here is the first contradiction that seems to make the idea of totally depraved a controversy that must be explained with more and more opinion of men that more often than not leads only to disagreement and division.

If a person is honest they will admittedly agree that the term itself, totally depraved is not found in scripture.

Did Jesus use the term "Totally Depraved"? No.

Did Paul use the term "Totally Depraved"? No
Peter? No
James? No
John? No

Anyone in the scripture use the term Totally Depraved? No

How does a person who is Totally Depraved go from being Totally Depraved to becoming Justified, Sanctified and Holy?

Here are some scriptures that speak to the answer to that question:

How can a young man cleanse his way? By taking heed according to Your word. Psalms 119:9

Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides 1 Peter 1:22-23

Was not Abraham our father justified by works (obedience) when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. James 2:21-24



JLB

 

[JLB]

How do you relate that to Reformed Theology?

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 1:9

I posted scripture; specifically the teaching of Jesus Christ; The doctrine of Christ

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Does Reformed Theology agree that we must abide, remain in Christ in order to remain in relationship with Christ; like branch is connected to and is in relationship with the vine.

Does Reformed Theology agree that the way to go about remaining in Christ is through obedience to His commandments?

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

Maybe you could share from your own perspective, what you have discovered by reading the scriptures, as to what Reformed Theology is?

I see the teachings of Christ in the New Testament expressed through His apostles as being what we as Christians are called to study and apply to our individual life’s.

Is Reformed Theology a “Reformation” of the New Testament scriptures?

Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. John 8:31

JLB, Reformed theology is not only the teachings of Jesus, but it depends on the teachings and history of the whole Bible and emphasizes the covenant given to Abraham that became the new form of that same covenant instituted by Jesus with his death and resurrection. Reformed theology emphasizes other aspects of the Bible that other Christian beliefs do not, for example, God's plans for all his creation and church that happened before he did any creating.

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

Maybe they did.

However like every denomination, their theology seems to focus or identify with scriptural ideological concepts that are a mixture of the tradition (teachings) of man and the word of God {scripture}.

This always produces a schism or sect; which is a division of "Christianity".

TULIP is that Foundational Core within the "Reformed Theology".

T - total depravity. Man is completely helpless in his sinful state, is under the wrath of God.
U - unconditional election. God, from eternity past, has chosen to save a great multitude of sinners.
L - limited atonement. Also called a “particular redemption.”
I - irresistible grace. In his fallen state, man resists God’s love, but the grace of God works to save.
P - perseverance of the saints. God protects His saints from falling away; thus, salvation is eternal.


These definitions may have some "elements" of truth, but are a concoction of the blend of the teachings of man and the word of God.

As I have shown in previous threads on this subject, a careful examination of the five core concepts shows them to tainted with man made teachings.

In the term total depravity we see the idea that man is totally depraved, while at the same time man is not
utterly depraved.

Totally and utterly are synonymous with each other.

Here is the first contradiction that seems to make the idea of totally depraved a controversy that must be explained with more and more opinion of men that more often than not leads only to disagreement and division.

If a person is honest they will admittedly agree that the term itself, totally depraved is not found in scripture.

Did Jesus use the term "Totally Depraved"? No.

Did Paul use the term "Totally Depraved"? No
Peter? No
James? No
John? No

Anyone in the scripture use the term Totally Depraved? No

How does a person who is Totally Depraved go from being Totally Depraved to becoming Justified, Sanctified and Holy?

Here are some scriptures that speak to the answer to that question:

How can a young man cleanse his way? By taking heed according to Your word. Psalms 119:9

Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides 1 Peter 1:22-23

Was not Abraham our father justified by works (obedience) when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. James 2:21-24



JLB

What specific man-made teachings are mixed with TULIP, JLB? Have you read all of the Canons of Dort? Share with me their unbiblical parts and the biblical passages that you feel they violate.

If you read the first part of the Canons, you will see that the word "total" really means "pervasive," that is evil pervades every part of human life, not that humans are completely and totally evil. Basically, it means that sin (self-centeredness) is at the center of human life.

James and Paul agree that works are the result of salvation (your passage and Ephesians 2:10).

 

[electedbyHim]

Maybe they did.

However like every denomination, their theology seems to focus or identify with scriptural ideological concepts that are a mixture of the tradition (teachings) of man and the word of God {scripture}.

This always produces a schism or sect; which is a division of "Christianity".

TULIP is that Foundational Core within the "Reformed Theology".

T - total depravity. Man is completely helpless in his sinful state, is under the wrath of God.
U - unconditional election. God, from eternity past, has chosen to save a great multitude of sinners.
L - limited atonement. Also called a “particular redemption.”
I - irresistible grace. In his fallen state, man resists God’s love, but the grace of God works to save.
P - perseverance of the saints. God protects His saints from falling away; thus, salvation is eternal.


These definitions may have some "elements" of truth, but are a concoction of the blend of the teachings of man and the word of God.

As I have shown in previous threads on this subject, a careful examination of the five core concepts shows them to tainted with man made teachings.

In the term total depravity we see the idea that man is totally depraved, while at the same time man is not
utterly depraved.

Totally and utterly are synonymous with each other.

Here is the first contradiction that seems to make the idea of totally depraved a controversy that must be explained with more and more opinion of men that more often than not leads only to disagreement and division.

If a person is honest they will admittedly agree that the term itself, totally depraved is not found in scripture.

Did Jesus use the term "Totally Depraved"? No.

Did Paul use the term "Totally Depraved"? No
Peter? No
James? No
John? No

Anyone in the scripture use the term Totally Depraved? No

How does a person who is Totally Depraved go from being Totally Depraved to becoming Justified, Sanctified and Holy?

Here are some scriptures that speak to the answer to that question:

How can a young man cleanse his way? By taking heed according to Your word. Psalms 119:9

Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides 1 Peter 1:22-23

Was not Abraham our father justified by works (obedience) when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. James 2:21-24



JLB

As I have shown in previous threads on this subject, a careful examination of the five core concepts shows them to tainted with man made teachings.

You have shown no such thing.

 

[electedbyHim]

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 1:9

I posted scripture; specifically the teaching of Jesus Christ; The doctrine of Christ

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Does Reformed Theology agree that we must abide, remain in Christ in order to remain in relationship with Christ; like branch is connected to and is in relationship with the vine.

Does Reformed Theology agree that the way to go about remaining in Christ is through obedience to His commandments?

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

You do not understand.

 

[JLB]

What specific man-made teachings are mixed with TULIP, @JLB? Have you read all of the Canons of Dort? Share with me their unbiblical parts and the biblical passages that you feel they violate.

One only needs to read the definitions of TULIP to see that each and every term are not found in scripture.

Total Depravity. Where does the bible mention total depravity.

or Unconditional election or limited atonement, or irresistible grace or perseverance of the saints.

These are just manmade terms to prop up a manmade doctrine.

 

[electedbyHim]

One only needs to read the definitions of TULIP to see that each and every term are not found in scripture.

Total Depravity. Where does the bible mention total depravity.

or Unconditional election or limited atonement, or irresistible grace or perseverance of the saints.

These are just manmade terms to prop up a manmade doctrine.

And yet you cannot refute any of them, as hard as you have tried to.

 

[JLB]

You do not understand.

That's it?

That's all you can say about the scriptures I posted?

How about addressing this question that comes from the words of Jesus Christ?

Do you agree that we must abide, remain in Christ, in order to remain in relationship with Christ; like branch is connected to and is in relationship with the vine.


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

 

[JLB]

And yet you cannot refute any of them, as hard as you have tried to.

Where does a passage of scripture use any of the five phrases from TULIP?

Please post one scripture that uses one of these phrases and let's discuss the context around it so we can see if the TULIP phrase aligns with the scripture and context surrounding it.

I'll wait.

 

[Fastfredy0]

nd yet you cannot refute any of them, as hard as you have tried to.

What's your timeline for inducting JLB into the Reformed fold?

 

[jasonc]

And yet you cannot refute any of them, as hard as you have tried to.

One day I just decided to love Jesus all by my lonesome .How ? Because I was never truly depraved ,I can decide how my heart will be perfected as I can do that all by my lonesome.

My works alone will save me because my faith is so that !

So says some .

Quite the opposite as I can easily ponder my history of local homes ,survey ,family lineage

https://jasoncran.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F769963757630898176

For example lots of Gifford pioneer in that photo .

Yet the word of God in church and worship songs I have to focus hard ,prayer too

So which is it ? We naturally need to train our hearts or is it God drawing us?

I have been saved nearly thirty years .looking back I can't see that im a Holy person that doesn't need the grace offered .in fact I find that I'm very vile .the more I learn from the bible .I'm very sin fil and enjoy sin ! I need to repent

 

[JLB]

God drawing us?

Jesus Christ draws all men to Himself.

And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” John 12:32

Does that mean all men will respond and be saved? No.

 

[electedbyHim]

What's your timeline for inducting JLB into the Reformed fold?

Its a man made doctrine, so it will never happen.

The word reformed is not found in the Bible.

 

[Rodger]

Maybe they did.

However like every denomination, their theology seems to focus or identify with scriptural ideological concepts that are a mixture of the tradition (teachings) of man and the word of God {scripture}.

This always produces a schism or sect; which is a division of "Christianity".

TULIP is that Foundational Core within the "Reformed Theology".

T - total depravity. Man is completely helpless in his sinful state, is under the wrath of God.
U - unconditional election. God, from eternity past, has chosen to save a great multitude of sinners.
L - limited atonement. Also called a “particular redemption.”
I - irresistible grace. In his fallen state, man resists God’s love, but the grace of God works to save.
P - perseverance of the saints. God protects His saints from falling away; thus, salvation is eternal.


These definitions may have some "elements" of truth, but are a concoction of the blend of the teachings of man and the word of God.

As I have shown in previous threads on this subject, a careful examination of the five core concepts shows them to tainted with man made teachings.

In the term total depravity we see the idea that man is totally depraved, while at the same time man is not
utterly depraved.

Totally and utterly are synonymous with each other.

Here is the first contradiction that seems to make the idea of totally depraved a controversy that must be explained with more and more opinion of men that more often than not leads only to disagreement and division.

If a person is honest they will admittedly agree that the term itself, totally depraved is not found in scripture.

Did Jesus use the term "Totally Depraved"? No.

Did Paul use the term "Totally Depraved"? No
Peter? No
James? No
John? No

Anyone in the scripture use the term Totally Depraved? No

How does a person who is Totally Depraved go from being Totally Depraved to becoming Justified, Sanctified and Holy?

Here are some scriptures that speak to the answer to that question:

How can a young man cleanse his way? By taking heed according to Your word. Psalms 119:9

Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides 1 Peter 1:22-23

Was not Abraham our father justified by works (obedience) when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. James 2:21-24



JLB

Abraham was justifired by Faith.
Romans 4:3.....
"For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”

One only needs to read the definitions of TULIP to see that each and every term are not found in scripture.

Total Depravity. Where does the bible mention total depravity.

or Unconditional election or limited atonement, or irresistible grace or perseverance of the saints.

These are just manmade terms to prop up a manmade doctrine.

Specific words do not have to be seen in the Scriptures for there to be a doctrine on a said topic.

I agree that the specific word Depraved is not in the Scripture, Yet what is important is not the name assigned to the doctrine but how accurately the doctrine summarizes what the Bible teaches about the spiritual condition of fallen man.

I assume that as a Christian you believe in the TRINITY, yet that specific word is not in the Bible either.

No matter which name you use to refer to “total depravity,” the fact remains that when properly understood it is an accurate description of what the Bible does teach on this important subject.

Isaiah 64:6 = “…all our righteous acts are like filthy rags” before a holy God".

Jeremiah 17:9
"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?"

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

Where does a passage of scripture use any of the five phrases from TULIP?

Please post one scripture that uses one of these phrases and let's discuss the context around it so we can see if the TULIP phrase aligns with the scripture and context surrounding it.

I'll wait.

JLB, you're using a false argument. The question is not whether Scripture uses those phrases but whether those phrases present biblical truth. In your opinion, why don't they?