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What is required for a BAC to be acceptable to God?

WIP said:
What is the sin? Is it the murder or did he reject God?
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Well the sin was turning away from God but JLB requested I change it to murder so he could quote his #1 bible verse again.
The hypothetical man didn't reject God but stopped seeking Christ in his every day lifeI believe the term is backslidden.
 
JLB said:
I couldn’t agree more. Just because we fall, and struggle with sin because we’re weak, God isn’t going to forsake us. He will continue to show mercy towards those who struggle giving them grace to repent and overcome and grow.


However, the scenario she gave comes to the end of the life of a person who believes, but still murders and dies before he can repent.


I hope we all can see the difference.


This person died in their sins, as a murderer.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



The Lord makes available His mercy to us everyday, and gives everyone the opportunity to come before Him and be forgiven and cleansed of all unrighteousness, if we choose to.


If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9





JLB
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Context is important.
1 John 3:10-16 King James Version (KJV)
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

In summary, here's how to recognize the saved child of God vs. the unrepentant child of the devil. And if you need an example, look to Cain and don't be like him who hated his brother because no eternal life was in him (ie: he wasn't saved). Don't be surprised if the world hates you for displaying God's righteousness like Cain hated his brother because Abel chose to obey God and Cain chose to disobey God.

And regarding 1 John 1:9 - yes of course he's faithful to cleanse us of our sins if we confess and ask.
Show me the verse in the Bible that says that if you confess your sins in the morning, but forget to confess your sins committed from 8:30 am until lunchtime when you die in a car accident on the way to the burger place, then God is going to say, "whoops, sorry! you were sooooo close, but I'm afraid you just messed up those last few hours"
 
Senior said:
You're actually much closer to the Truth than most today.
John 10:29 ... but you can snatch yourself out of Father's hand.
We have the free will to do so!
This is what much of the epistles are all about.

BACs must CHOOSE to sin, or not to sin!
To be, or not to be (a habitual sinner leading to death).

This is why the Word came to live and die on the earth:
to set some of us FREE ... so we do NOT have to sin!
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Is misquoting Jesus considered a habitual sin?
I'm pretty sure when Jesus says "no one is able" to snatch them out that includes silly little sheep like us.
 
lisa-in-FL said:
We're told to be sober. By that logic, what's wrong with a little daily cocaine? What about a little adultery or theft? Can someone idol worship in moderation?
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If what you're saying it accurate, then Jesus sinned by drinking wine. Most wines have about double the alcohol content compared to beer. Can you show me where Scripture says to be sober?
 
WIP said:
If what you're saying it accurate, then Jesus sinned by drinking wine. Most wines have about double the alcohol content compared to beer. Can you show me where Scripture says to be sober?
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---> "Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober." (1 Thes 5:6)


---> "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:" (1 Peter 5:8)


(There's a few more instances in each of those epistles where both Sts. Paul and Peter repeat this admonition.)
 
Walpole said:
---> "Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober." (1 Thes 5:6)


---> "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:" (1 Peter 5:8)


(There's a few more instances in each of those epistles where both Sts. Paul and Peter repeat this admonition.)
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Now, let's look at the definition of sober from Merriam-Webster.

8402

Sober does not mean completely devoid of any alcohol in our system. It means not drunk. If it did mean completely absent of alcohol, then everyone partaking in Holy Communion where wine is used including Jesus Himself has sinned. We know that Jesus did not sin nor would He have promoted sinful behavior and yet He converted not only a few bottles but large barrels of water to wine and Scripture also says it was the best wine. Paul too, would not promote sinful behavior and yet he instructed Timothy to drink wine.

By definition, over-eating is also someone who is not sober but if having a morsel of food results in one not being sober, then what?

To say that having a beer is sinful is applying personal rules above and beyond what Scripture says. Much like the Pharisees.
 
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WIP said:
Now, let's look at the definition of sober from Merriam-Webster.

View attachment 8402

Sober does not mean completely devoid of any alcohol in our system. It means not drunk. If it did mean completely absent of alcohol, then everyone partaking in Holy Communion where wine is used including Jesus Himself has sinned. We know that Jesus did not sin nor would He have promoted sinful behavior and yet He converted not only a few bottles but large barrels of water to wine and Scripture also says it was the best wine. Paul too, would not promote sinful behavior and yet he instructed Timothy to drink wine.

To say that having a beer is sinful is applying personal rules above and beyond what Scripture says. Much like a Pharisee.
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Do you know what the moving the goal post fallacy is? (https://lernabit.com/note/0Ahitacu9lUKhwi) You could not have provided a better example of it...

Initial request made --->
WIP said:
Can you show me where Scripture says to be sober?
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Request answered --->
Walpole said:
---> "Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober." (1 Thes 5:6)
---> "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:" (1 Peter 5:8)

(There's a few more instances in each of those epistles where both Sts. Paul and Peter repeat this admonition.)
Click to expand...

And now you have moved the goal post by rejecting the example you requested.
 
Walpole said:
Do you know what the moving the goal post fallacy is? (https://lernabit.com/note/0Ahitacu9lUKhwi) You could not have provided a better example of it...

Initial request made --->

Request answered --->

And now you have moved the goal post by rejecting the example you requested.
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Where did I reject your post? Although I didn't specifically thank you for providing the reference, I do appreciate it. Now, we need to get back to what I was discussing with the other member who brought up the word sober and also said it was sinful to drink a beer every day, to which I disagree.

Besides, I don't really care if I created some kind of debate fallacy to which I have no knowledge of. I'm just discussing what was brought up. If it's important to identify the fallacies I use then be my guest but it means nothing to me.
 
WIP said:
Where did I reject your post? Although I didn't specifically thank you for providing the reference, I do appreciate it. Now, we need to get back to what I was discussing with the other member who brought up the word sober and also said it was sinful to drink a beer every day, to which I disagree.

Besides, I don't really care if I created some kind of debate fallacy to which I have no knowledge of. I'm just discussing what was brought up. If it's important to identify the fallacies I use then be my guest but it means nothing to me.
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You asked, specifically, "Can you show me where the Scripture says to be sober?"

I provide two of several such examples.

You are moving the goal post by now rejecting the Scripture I provided...

"Sober does not mean completely devoid of any alcohol in our system. It means not drunk." - You

Moving the goal post ---> You asked for Scripture that says "be sober." You did not ask for a Scripture that says not have any alcohol in one's system.
 
Walpole said:
You asked, specifically, "Can you show me where the Scripture says to be sober?"

I provide two of several such examples.

You are moving the goal post by now rejecting the Scripture I provided...

"Sober does not mean completely devoid of any alcohol in our system. It means not drunk." - You

Moving the goal post ---> You asked for Scripture that says "be sober." You did not ask for a Scripture that says not have any alcohol in one's system.
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When you enter into a conversation that has already begun, it can be difficult. Fortunately, there is a record that you can access if you wish. I didn't ask you that question of you, I asked it of someone else that used the term sober to support her position. I was trying to understand how she justifies its use.
 
WIP said:
When you enter into a conversation that has already begun, it can be difficult. Fortunately, there is a record that you can access if you wish. I didn't ask you that question of you, I asked it of someone else that used the term sober to support her position. I was trying to understand how she justifies its use.
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Ok, fair enough.
 
WIP said:
Please expound.
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A few circumstances that quickly come to mind might be...

  • If you are struggling with addiction to alcohol
  • If you are neglecting duties to your family, employer, etc. to instead have a drink
  • If it puts you in a near occasion of sin. (e.g. The bar tender is attractive and she is flirtatious, but I have a wife at home.)
  • I use it to deal with problems I do not want to face
  • I make sure to take the time to have my one drink for the day, but I don't take the time to spend some time in prayer and or doing spiritual reading
 
Walpole said:
A few circumstances that quickly come to mind might be...

  • If you are struggling with addiction to alcohol
  • If you are neglecting duties to your family, employer, etc. to instead have a drink
  • If it puts you in a near occasion of sin. (e.g. The bar tender is attractive and she is flirtatious, but I have a wife at home.)
  • I use it to deal with problems I do not want to face
  • I make sure to take the time to have my one drink for the day, but I don't take the time to spend some time in prayer and or doing spiritual reading
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Pretty much what I was already sharing in an earlier post when I said unless one is an alcoholic and can't control himself or herself.

It sounds like we are in agreement that except for specific circumstances having a beer daily is not a sin. There are some that disagree but no explanation has been provided yet.
 
WIP said:
Pretty much what I was already sharing in an earlier post when I said unless one is an alcoholic and can't control himself or herself.

It sounds like we are in agreement that except for specific circumstances having a beer daily is not a sin. There are some that disagree but no explanation has been provided yet.
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Glad we can finally agree on something.

I may have a beer to commemorate!
 
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