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What is soul and what is spirit?

We are and were created souls.For the purpose of this age we wre given a flesh body the spirit is the intellect of the soul,its what makes you,you.

When we die,we simply step out of the flesh.What Im trying to say is that technically we are a soul.
 
Why are you dividing "soul" and "spirit"?

Genesis clearly shows that we are material (made of the dust) and immaterial (God breathed into humanity)
 
aLoneVoice said:
Why are you dividing "soul" and "spirit"?

Genesis clearly shows that we are material (made of the dust) and immaterial (God breathed into humanity)
Thank you. That is part of what I was saying too
 
aLoneVoice said:
Why are you dividing "soul" and "spirit"?

Genesis clearly shows that we are material (made of the dust) and immaterial (God breathed into humanity)

**************However, is that ALL that scripture supplies to us regarding the soul and the spirit of humanity? Clearly, from the quotes out of the Lords word listed above, the answer is no. Also, there are other even more convincing words from the Spirit who teaches us all things...

"For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." Hebrews 4:12 :crazyeyes:

See, in Hebrews the Holy Spirit speaks of two separate entites within humankind being divided by His powerful spiritual word. The spirit~ or pneuma and the soul~ or psuche. Just as the bone and it's marrow are separate entities thou they function only in union. As well as one's thoughts are derived from one's intentions, yet each are separate entities working in unison.

So is there a deliberate and significant difference between the soul and the spirit here?

Guthrie says;
“The New Testament use of pneuma for the human spirit focuses on the spiritual aspect of man, i.e. his life in relation to God, whereas psyche refers to man’s life irrespective of his spiritual experience, i.e. his life in relation to himself, his emotions and thought. There is a strong antithesis between the two in the theology of Paul.†(Guthrie)

Some more of my cents to this pot ... :smt110 bonnie
 
If you are really interested in this topic you will want to read this from "The Summa Theologica" of St. Thomas Aquinas it is a classic no matter what denomination or church you belong to.

Here is the opening the rest can be read for free at the Calvin College website at this link http://www.ccel.org/ccel/aquinas/summa.FP_Q75.html

OF MAN WHO IS COMPOSED OF A SPIRITUAL AND A CORPOREAL SUBSTANCE: AND IN THE FIRST PLACE, CONCERNING WHAT BELONGS TO THE ESSENCE OF THE SOUL (SEVEN ARTICLES)
Having treated of the spiritual and of the corporeal creature, we now proceed to treat of man, who is composed of a spiritual and corporeal substance. We shall treat first of the nature of man, and secondly of his origin. Now the theologian considers the nature of man in relation to the soul; but not in relation to the body, except in so far as the body has relation to the soul. Hence the first object of our consideration will be the soul. And since Dionysius (Ang. Hier. xi) says that three things are to be found in spiritual substances---essence, power, and operation---we shall treat first of what belongs to the essence of the soul; secondly, of what belongs to its power; thirdly, of what belongs to its operation.
Concerning the first, two points have to be considered; the first is the nature of the soul considered in itself; the second is the union of the soul with the body. Under the first head there are seven points of inquiry.
(1) Whether the soul is a body?
(2) Whether the human soul is a subsistence?
(3) Whether the souls of brute animals are subsistent?
(4) Whether the soul is man, or is man composed of soul and body?
(5) Whether the soul is composed of matter and form?
(6) Whether the soul is incorruptible?
(7) Whether the soul is of the same species as an angel?

None of us will examine these questions deeper or more thoroughly than they are examined here.
 
Here is the source of my theology of the "soul" and "spirit":

... then Yahweh God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. Genesis 2:7

1. Yahweh formed man out of dust from the ground. He made a physical body. The body had no life in it.

2. God breathed the breath of life [spirit] into the lifeless body.

3. The man (body + spirit) became a living soul (or "being").

1a. Your body is not "you". When you die, your body remains on earth. It is not "you". It is your body.

2a. Your spirit is not "you". It is the life which comes from God. At death, the spirit goes back to the God who gave it. That life force returns to God.

3a. Your soul is "you". You don't actually "have" a soul. You are a "soul". When God breathed the breath of life into the lifeless body He created, the body didn't receive a soul. It became a soul. Your soul is you ---- your body vivified with the spirit of life from God. It is you as you are right now.

When you die, the spirit of life goes back to God. The body remains on earth. What happens to "you" the soul? You don't exist. There's no "soul" or "disembodied spirit" which is "you" and which departs to Heaven. However, you will exist again some day when God raises you from death.

The Old Testament uses the word "soul" ["nephesh"] as equivalent to "being". The New Testament seems to use "psychos" as equivalent to "self".

Have you ever heard of a "dead soul"? No? Then read Numbers 6:6

All the days that he separates himself to Yahweh he shall not go near a dead soul [nephesh]...

Of course, the translators do not translate "nephesh" as "soul" in this context. Some translate it as "person". That's a good translation. It makes sense to speak of a dead person.
The AV, RSV, ESV, ASV, Darby, KJ21, and the NIV translate it as "body". It seems a little odd to translate as "body" a word which is elsewhere translated as "soul".

In one of Jesus' parables, a rich man seems to be talking to his "soul":

And I will say to my soul, Soul, you have ample goods laid up for many years; relax, eat, drink, be merry.’ Luke 12:19. ESV

Now if the rich man's soul is his immaterial, metaphysical self that leaves his body and goes somewhere at death, then which part of the rich man is talking to his "soul"?
I suggest that his soul is his self all right. But it is his living self, his body vivified by the spirit of life in him. In plain words, the man is simply talking to himself.
 
sheshisown said:
aLoneVoice said:
Why are you dividing "soul" and "spirit"?

Genesis clearly shows that we are material (made of the dust) and immaterial (God breathed into humanity)

**************However, is that ALL that scripture supplies to us regarding the soul and the spirit of humanity? Clearly, from the quotes out of the Lords word listed above, the answer is no. Also, there are other even more convincing words from the Spirit who teaches us all things...

"For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." Hebrews 4:12 :crazyeyes:

See, in Hebrews the Holy Spirit speaks of two separate entites within humankind being divided by His powerful spiritual word. The spirit~ or pneuma and the soul~ or psuche. Just as the bone and it's marrow are separate entities thou they function only in union. As well as one's thoughts are derived from one's intentions, yet each are separate entities working in unison.

So is there a deliberate and significant difference between the soul and the spirit here?

Guthrie says;
“The New Testament use of pneuma for the human spirit focuses on the spiritual aspect of man, i.e. his life in relation to God, whereas psyche refers to man’s life irrespective of his spiritual experience, i.e. his life in relation to himself, his emotions and thought. There is a strong antithesis between the two in the theology of Paul.†(Guthrie)

Some more of my cents to this pot ... :smt110 bonnie

This verse, and even Guthrie (who is he?) commentary, does not suggest that there are two "parts" that are separate unto each other. The thrust of the passage is to show the "power" of the Word. I believe it is in Acts where it talks about one being "pierced to the quick". Again, showing the power of conviction of the Word.

I believe we are led into misunderstanding when we attempt to "divide" the Scriptures (take dispensationalism for example). God created us holistically with a material and immaterial. However, we must keep it in unison, whole.
 
aLoneVoice said:
Why are you dividing "soul" and "spirit"?

Genesis clearly shows that we are material (made of the dust) and immaterial (God breathed into humanity)

Scripture divides it. They are distinct parts of our makeup.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


 
ps113_3.jpg

This piece by Watchman Nee is interesting in that he makes a profound point..

According to God’s desire, plan, and redemption, He has ordained that His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, be all spiritual matters and things. When a man touches Him, he touches the reality of all spiritual matters and things. After a man gains Him, he gains all spiritual matters and things that God has prepared for him. But man has replaced Him with many so-called spiritual things. Although these many things, in man’s eyes, belong to Him, they are nevertheless not Him. Rather, they are a replacement of Him. Therefore, they do not render man real help in his spiritual life.

We are facing a serious problem! What are we pursuing? What do we know, and what have we gained in the spiritual realm? Is it Christ, or is it something else? If it is Christ, we are touching the reality that God has ordained for us. If it is something else, no matter how good and valuable, we are merely touching vain and unprofitable things!

Today Christ is in the Spirit. In order to touch Him, we must be in spirit. We can use our mind to touch the things which are apart from Him. But in order to touch Him, we have to use the spirit. In order to touch the things that are apart from Him, we only need human zeal and cleverness. But in order to touch Him, we need God’s revelation. We have to look to Him for His mercy and grace!

Witness Lee
 
Alabaster said:
aLoneVoice said:
Why are you dividing "soul" and "spirit"?

Genesis clearly shows that we are material (made of the dust) and immaterial (God breathed into humanity)

Scripture divides it. They are distinct parts of our makeup.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.



That verse is meant to show the "sharpness" of the sword, if you will. Does the "word of God" literally separate the joints and the marrow?
 
Hi guys~

Alabaster's point is true--- The scripture makes distinctions that show separate parts of our make-up. 8-)

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The word of God here divides the separate the parts of our make-up, the soul and the spirit of humankind is divided by the conviction of the holy word of God.

Alonevoice wrote;
That verse is meant to show the "sharpness" of the sword, if you will. Does the "word of God" literally separate the joints and the marrow?

:roll: Yet~ this verse does much more than show the sharpness of God's word. If we take the words of this verse literally and not figuratively, then God's word cannot actually be "physically sharp".

Yet you and I understand this is a metaphorical way of saying; the word is able to cut between the parts of humanity that are joined in such union that it is difficult for us to understand their functions within us.

The bone and it's marrow are separate parts of the human frame and yet they function only in union. These can actually be physically divded, though neither are of use to a human body when they are. Also, our thoughts are derived from our intentions, yet each are separate parts of our hearts working in unison. However, if these are separated can they continue to function? Without an intention is there a thought? Just as all purpose is lost without a thought to make use of the intentions in humanity.

So God's word is also stating that the soul and the spirit are separate parts of our human make-up. And God's word can divide (not literally, but figuratively) each of the functions of our souls and our spirits within us. :smt045

Now keep in mind I am learning along with you on this one~ so I am hoping I make sense to you. :smt048

From this viewpoint (unless I am missing something - which is entirely possible) I see that not only are we made up of three separate parts, spirit, soul, and body; but we also will remain spirit and soul at our completed redemption, when we leave the body--- this tent as Paul refers to it--- behind. because the two (spirit and soul) are the stuff from which we exist. Without either we would no longer exist. Aha! :smt103

What do you guys think? In Him ... bonnie
 
aLoneVoice said:
Alabaster said:
aLoneVoice said:
Why are you dividing "soul" and "spirit"?

Genesis clearly shows that we are material (made of the dust) and immaterial (God breathed into humanity)

Scripture divides it. They are distinct parts of our makeup.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.




That verse is meant to show the "sharpness" of the sword, if you will. Does the "word of God" literally separate the joints and the marrow?


As soul and spirit are separate parts of us, the verse points out very well that fact.
display_green.jpg
 
There is no duality between the soul and spirit in man
 
Alabaster said:
That verse is meant to show the "sharpness" of the sword, if you will. Does the "word of God" literally separate the joints and the marrow?


As soul and spirit are separate parts of us, the verse points out very well that fact.
display_green.jpg
[/quote]

It is poor theology to use ONE verse to base one's theology on. Scripture speaks to the holistic nature of man, God creating man as material and immaterial.
 
aLoneVoice said:
It is poor theology to use ONE verse to base one's theology on. Scripture speaks to the holistic nature of man, God creating man as material and immaterial.

My views are based on the whole of Scripture. what you have just said is gobbledegook.
 
Imagine any fact that you may be confronted with, such as “I am thirstyâ€Â. If you had no feeling with regard to that fact, what would motivate you to take action toward it? Why we feel the way we do about any fact whatever, at any given time, appears to depend on some synthesis involving the nature of ourselves that is, to a great degree, beyond our understanding, while it is the necessary beginning of whatever action we take*. I believe it is our feelings that are the fingerprints of our souls. Perhaps the spirit is the nature of our action. In this way the soul could be posited akin to a configuration, which possesses no substance apart from a body, though our spirit may remain in the continued actions of the world that owe some contingency to our existence, or at such a point that our configuration, system, or soul be joined again to some new body, similarly as a triangle can be made from new lines.

In this way, I would think that the person who suppresses or destroys a feeling of guilt associated with sealing, for instance, has effectively changed his/her soul. Consequently, it would seem at the same time that the spirit of this person, whose nature incorporates acts of thievery, is damaged.

Where, as a child I thought of the soul as something to be either lost or retained, I now think of it as something that may be developed, or improved, as well as wrecked.

* In no way do I intend to suggest that we substitute feelings for reason. I only mean to point out the role of feeling in initiating action, and thus the role of our soul in initiating our active existence.
 
For many, there is confusion of the Scriptural meanings of soul and spirit, with the churches having been guilty of distorting the Bible for centuries, teaching that the soul is immortal. It is necessary to understand what the Bible really teaches about the soul and spirit rather than what the churches say it teaches. Too, because of inconsistent rendering of certain Hebrew and Greek words concerning soul and spirit in many Bibles, there is confusion as to their meanings.

For example, the word "spirit" comes from the Hebrew word ru´ach and the Greek pneu´ma, which comes from pne´o, meaning “breathe or blow". These have basic meaning of “breath†but have extended meanings beyond that basic sense. They can also mean wind, as at John 3:8 and Genesis 8:1; the vital force in living creatures, as at Genesis 6:17; one’s spirit as at Genesis 41:8 concerning Pharaoh and 45:27 concerning Jacob; spirit persons , including God and his angelic creatures as at 2 Chronicles 18:20; and God’s active force, or holy spirit as at Genesis 1:2. All these meanings have something in common: They all refer to that which is invisible to human sight and which gives evidence of force in motion. Such invisible force is capable of producing visible effects.

On the other hand, the soul is us a person, with all our life, and is sometimes translated as "life" by some Bibles, such as at Matthew 16:25, in which the King James Bible renders it as: "For whosoever will save his life (Greek psy·khe´ ) shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life (Greek psy·khe´ ) for my sake shall find it." Yet at verse 26, it renders the Greek word psy·khe´ as "soul", saying: "For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul ? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul ?" Thus, there is an inconsistency here regarding the rendering of the Greek word psy·khe´. The Greek word for "life" is zoe, as at Matthew 7:14 and 18:8.

At Ezekiel 18:4, it says that "all souls (Hebrew ne´phesh) are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die."(King James Bible) Thus, the soul ' dies ' and is not immortal. We can be a "dead soul", as shown at Leviticus 21:11, which says: "And he should not come to any dead soul."(Literally, “souls of one dead.†Hebrew, naph·shoth´, plural, followed by meth, “deadâ€Â)

When The Jewish Publication Society of America issued a new translation of the Torah, or first five books of the Bible, the editor-in-chief, H. M. Orlinsky of Hebrew Union College, stated that the word “soul†had been virtually eliminated from this translation because, “the Hebrew word in question here is ‘Nefesh.’†He added: “ The Bible does not say we have a soul. ‘Nefesh’ is the person himself, his need for food, the very blood in his veins, his being.â€Â-The New York Times, October 12, 1962.

The difficulty lies in the fact that the meanings popularly attached to the English word “soul†stem primarily, not from the Hebrew or Christian Greek Scriptures, commonly called the Old and New Testament, but from ancient Greek philosophy, actually pagan religious thought. Greek philosopher Plato, for example, quotes Socrates as saying: “The soul, . . . if it departs pure, dragging with it nothing of the body, . . . goes away into that which is like itself, into the invisible, divine, immortal, and wise, and when it arrives there it is happy, freed from error and folly and fear . . . and all the other human ills, and . . . lives in truth through all after time with the gods.â€Â-Phaedo, 80, D, E; 81, A.

The New Catholic Encyclopedia says: “Nepes [ne´phesh] is a term of far greater extension than our ‘soul,’ signifying life (Ex 21.23; Dt 19.21) and its various vital manifestations: breathing (Gn 35.18; Jb 41.13[21]), blood [Gn 9.4; Dt 12.23; Ps 140(141).8], desire (2 Sm 3.21; Prv 23.2). The soul in the O[ld] T[estament] means not a part of man, but the whole man-man as a living being. Similarly, in the N[ew] T[estament] it signifies human life: the life of an individual, conscious subject (Mt 2.20; 6.25; Lk 12.22-23; 14.26; Jn 10.11, 15, 17; 13.37).â€Â-1967, Vol. XIII, p. 467. Thus, the "soul" is anyone as a person, with all their desires, not having immortality, for Jeremiah 2:34 speaks of the "blood marks of the souls of the poor innocents". Hence, the soul has blood flowing through it.

Closely connected, the "spirit" of a person can be his life force, the very principal of life. The account of the creation of man states that God formed man from the dust of the ground and proceeded to “blow [form of na·phach´] into his nostrils the breath [form of nesha·mah´] of life, and the man came to be a living soul [ne´phesh].†(Ge 2:7) Ne´phesh may be translated literally as “a breather,†that is, “a breathing creature,†either human or animal. Nesha·mah´ is, in fact, used to mean “breathing thing [or creature]†and as such is used as a virtual synonym of ne´phesh, “soul", such as at Deuteronomy 20:16 and Joshua 11:11.

The record at Genesis 2:7 uses nesha·mah´ in describing God’s causing Adam’s body to have life so that the man "came to be a living soul.†Other texts, however, show that more was involved than simple breathing of air, that is, more than the mere introduction of air into the lungs and its expulsion therefrom. Thus, at Genesis 7:22, in describing the destruction of human and animal life outside the ark at the time of the Flood, we read: “Everything in which the breath [form of nesha·mah´] of the force [or, “spirit†(ru´ach)] of life was active in its nostrils, namely, all that were on the dry ground, died.†Nesha·mah´, “breath,†is thus directly associated or linked with ru´ach, which here describes the spirit, or life-force, that is active in all living creatures-human and animal souls, just as electricity is the life-force of objects such as fans, refrigerators, etc.

Because breathing is so inseparably connected with life, nesha·mah´ and ru´ach are used in clear parallel in various texts. Job voiced his determination to avoid unrighteousness “while my breath [form of nesha·mah´] is yet whole within me, and the spirit [weru´ach] of God is in my nostrils.†(Job 27:3) Elihu said: “If that one’s spirit [form of ru´ach] and breath [form of nesha·mah´] he [God] gathers to himself, all flesh will expire [that is, “breathe outâ€Â] together, and earthling man himself will return to the very dust.†(Job 34:14, 15)

Similarly, Psalm 104:29 says of earth’s creatures, human and animal: “If you [God] take away their spirit (Hebrew formf ru´ach), they expire, and back to their dust they go.†At Isaiah 42:5, our Creator, Jehovah God is spoken of as “the One laying out the earth and its produce, the One giving breath [form of nesha·mah´] to the people on it, and spirit [weru´ach] to those walking in it.†The breath (nesha·mah´) sustains their existence; the spirit (ru´ach) energizes and is the life-force that enables man to be an animated creature, to move, walk, be actively alive, just as electricity is an invisible life-force for any electrical appliance.
 
nadab said:
For many, there is confusion of the Scriptural meanings of soul and spirit, with the churches having been guilty of distorting the Bible for centuries, teaching that the soul is immortal......
Your spirit IS immortal
 
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