Thank you for the exhortation.
I know I will not find that we are not to forgive if the transgressor doesn't turn from his sin that he committed against us.
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What is the best thing to do when you hate someone?
- Thread starter IamBee
- Start date
I know I will not find that we are not to forgive if the transgressor doesn't turn from his sin that he committed against us.
How can one ask God to forgive someone they don't themself forgive?Please read what the Bible says.
In both Jesus's crucifixion and Stephens stunning, they prayed Father forgive them.
Not I forgive them. ( Stephen, :- do not hold this sin against them. )
Will Father forgive a sinner whom a true Christ follower doesn't beseech Him for?May I suggest that you look at how God forgave sinners and Israel, Ninivah etc I the O T.
As well as how God forgives people today.
Because unless you believ5 everybody, regardless of what they belief is saved, salvation depends on repentance..
Like 17:3+4 verses on body deals with, says we must forgive if, if they repent.
And doesn't Jesus say we will get what we ask for?
Do you really think God will hear the prayers of someone who still hates another man?
I don't, as "God heareth not sinners". (John 9:31)
As you don't agree with my POV, can you mention any good thing that can come from holding a grudge?
Very easily. You forget that is what Jesus did, as did Stephen.How can one ask God to forgive someone they don't themself forgive?
Please quote any of my posts, or any biblical quote that says one hates the person who has hurt one.Do you really think God will hear the prayers of someone who still hates another man
I have posted several times on the topic of forgiveness as most Christians don't understand it.
Please read the book of Joanh. It is a good study on rejection of God, acceptance, repentance, restoration and God's forgiveness.
No where in the bible does God forgive without there being repentance.
Tell me, who in the bible expected people.e to do more than God commanded?
Forgiveness as shown in Luke 17: 3+4. Is conditional on the offender saying sorry.
Then we Must forgive, no matter how hard.
When there is no repentance, we copy Jesus and hand the situation, the people, our feelings over to God for him to deal with them and us.
Not finish, we do the hard task of praying regularly and I tellingly for the offender.
It is this last thing that causes people to prefer the unbiblical ideal of manufacturing feelings of forgiveness and of burdening people who are hurting g with the guilt of not being given able to forgive.
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read your Bible we are to forgiveThank you for the exhortation.
I know I will not find that we are not to forgive if the transgressor doesn't turn from his sin that he committed against us.
Are you really saying that Jesus and Stephen asked God to forgive people they themselves would not forgive?Very easily. You forget that is what Jesus did, as did Stephen.
I cannot agree.
You lost me there.Please quote any of my posts, or any biblical quote that says one hates the person who has hurt one.
But don't you think the refusal to forgive indicates hate?
If both Jesus and Stephen asked God to forgive, but you don't think Jesus or Stephen forgave, how could either be our examples of forgiveness?
Why did Jesus ask God to forgive His killers then?I have posted several times on the topic of forgiveness as most Christians don't understand it.
Please read the book of Joanh. It is a good study on rejection of God, acceptance, repentance, restoration and God's forgiveness.
No where in the bible does God forgive without there being repentance.
Tell me, who in the bible expected people.e to do more than God commanded?
They didn't repent, but Jesus wanted them to be forgiven.
Does that sound like someone who has not themself forgiven?
No.
Yes.Then we Must forgive, no matter how hard.
That starts with our own forgiving of the person.When there is no repentance, we copy Jesus and hand the situation, the people, our feelings over to God for him to deal with them and us.
Amen to that.read your Bible we are to forgive
Whether or not they repent or say they are sorry, we must forgive...or we will not be forgiven. (Matt 6:15)
It is what the bible says.Are you really saying that Jesus and Stephen asked God to forgive people they themselves would not forgive?
I cannot agree.
No, it indicates that someone is so hurt that they, at that moment, can only pray to GodBut don't you think the refusal to forgive indicates hate?
We are told to pray for our persecutor's.Why did Jesus ask God to forgive His killers then?
Do take things out of context.Yes.
Yes, show those who read this that you do not understand what I have written.That starts with our own forgiving of the person.
Luke 17:3.Amen to that.
Whether or not they repent or say they are sorry, we must forgive...or we will not be forgiven. (Matt 6:15)
Please read it.
Then read Jonah.
How did God deal with Jonah's rebellion and how did God respond to Nineveh's actions?
It says Jesus and Stephen asked God to forgive those who had hurt them.It is what the bible says.
To think Jesus or Stephen didn't themselves forgive before asking God to forgive is ludicrous.
Anyone with a new heart will reach out to God before starting to hate someone so much they can't forgive them.No, it indicates that someone is so hurt that they, at that moment, can only pray to God
I am sure both knew that if they themselves wouldn't forgive that they themselves would not be forgiven.
It is written..."But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." (Matt 6:15)
Good idea, as if we don't forgive them we will not be forgiven.We are told to pray for our persecutor's.
No thanks.Do take things out of context.
You advocate we don't have to forgive.Yes, show those who read this that you do not understand what I have written.
Jesus doesn't agree with you.
Perfectly good OT instruction...for those not reborn of God's seed.Luke 17:3.
Please r
Thanks be to God, though, we are now in the NT, and walk after the Spirit instead of after the flesh, and have the mind of Christ.
There can be no unforgiveness in us.
Thanks for provoking me to reread Jonah.Then read Jonah.
How did God deal with Jonah's rebellion and how did God respond to Nineveh's actions?
Jonah repented of his reticence, Nineveh repented of their sins, and God repented of the evil He was going to do to Nineveh.
And all while providing the presage of the three day/nights Jesus would spend in the tomb.
Your POV is that without repentance there can be no forgiveness.
I disagree.
How can I carry the hate for ten thousand crazy drivers that have cut me off in traffic over the past many years?
I forgive them without even knowing their names.
Thanks be to God for the mind of Christ.
The fact that I just forgave them, (though I forgave them many years ago), makes your POV a moot point.
Why do you decend into emotional language?before starting to hate someone so much they can't forgive them.
You are the one talking about hate, I haven't used it.
You completely ignore the ot, a book without which the nt makes no sense.
You also ignore how God forgives.
And showing that without repentance there is no forgiveness.Thanks for provoking me to reread Jonah.
Jonah repented of his reticence, Nineveh repented of their sins, and God repented of the evil He was going to do to Nineveh.
And all while providing the presage of the three day/nights Jesus would spend in the tomb.
You consider Luke to be ot instructions!Perfectly good OT instruction...for those not reborn of God's seed.
Do read again who is speaking I Luke 17.
Do look at Jesus's teaching on forgiveness, again and again he links repentance with forgiveness.
Do you not equate a refusal to forgive with hate?Why do you decend into emotional language?
You are the one talking about hate, I haven't used it.
It certainly is not love.
Lost me there...You completely ignore the ot, a book without which the nt makes no sense.
With grace and love.You also ignore how God forgives.
Just as we can do...must do.
As a refusal to repent didn't happen, we don't really know.And showing that without repentance there is no forgiveness.
We can forgive without a repentance though.
If God is limited from doing so too, it is above my pay-grade.
Yes, or more correctly a "donut hole" writing.You consider Luke to be ot instructions!
On the cusp of both covenants.
Jesus, who until His resurrection, walked in the OT.Do read again who is speaking I Luke 17.
Forgive or you wont be forgiven.Do look at Jesus's teaching on forgiveness, again and again he links repentance with forgiveness.
Name one good thing that comes from carrying a grudge.
Ah we are making progress, moving from hate to a grudge.Name one good thing that comes from carrying a grudge.
Please read what I have frequently posted about how forgiveness works.
Through out the bible a sinner realises they have sinned and come to God for forgiveness. In the OT that meant an animal sacrifice, this was costly They had to be sincere God sees our motives.
So in the OT individual and national forgiveness was conditional on there repentance.
If my people who are called by my name, will humble themselves, turn from their wicked ways and pray.
Then I will hear from heaven, forgive their sins and heal their land.
As you rightly say Jesus was living under OT rules, as were the disciples.
Lule17:3 sums up forgiveness through the whole bible.
So wht do we do with those who won't repent or say sorry.
Like Stephen and Jesus we hand the situation, the people and our feelings over to God for him to deal with.
Then we do the hard thing of praying regularly and intelligently for those who hurt us.
If one tries to manufacture ' feelings ' of forgiveness then yes haltered, grudges etc can exist.
As Luke 17:3 says if they apologise, then we must forgive and then salvations forgiveness is at risk.
Grudges are born of hate.Ah we are making progress, moving from hate to a grudge.
No thanks.Please read what I have frequently posted about how forgiveness works.
I am not interested in reinventing the hate I let go of many years ago.
Some of those people have died, so have no avenue of repentance.
I forgive them anyway.
Some have moved far away, so have no way to tell me they are sorry.
But I forgave them anyway.
That, and Jesus' words that if I don't forgive I will not be forgiven, have made me a better man.
How can anyone pray for someone they won't forgive?Through out the bible a sinner realises they have sinned and come to God for forgiveness. In the OT that meant an animal sacrifice, this was costly They had to be sincere God sees our motives.
So in the OT individual and national forgiveness was conditional on there repentance.
If my people who are called by my name, will humble themselves, turn from their wicked ways and pray.
Then I will hear from heaven, forgive their sins and heal their land.
As you rightly say Jesus was living under OT rules, as were the disciples.
Lule17:3 sums up forgiveness through the whole bible.
So wht do we do with those who won't repent or say sorry.
Like Stephen and Jesus we hand the situation, the people and our feelings over to God for him to deal with.
Then we do the hard thing of praying regularly and intelligently for those who hurt us.
Then forgive, instead of holding on to the hate.If one tries to manufacture ' feelings ' of forgiveness then yes haltered, grudges etc can exist
We must forgive, in every case.As Luke 17:3 says if they apologise, then we must forgive and then salvations forgiveness is at risk.
No a grudge come out of a feeling of resentment, a grudge left to fester will end in hate.Grudges are born of hate.
The same way we are commanded to pray for persecutor's and people we don't personally know.How can anyone pray for someone they won't forgive?
We must forgive, in every case.
You won't read the bible and you won't read what I write.
Forgiveness starts with repentance, whether it is from God or from a Christian.
If there is no repentance there is no forgiveness. Luke 17:3
You assume that a Christian who has been hurt cannot pass their feelings over to God to deal with. You assume that a Christian praying for someone who has hurt them is a fake.
Why do you make these massive assumptions?
then dust your shoes off at him and move on...that is bible . its obvious they have their mind made up.You won't read the bible and you won't read what I write.