What is the rule of faith for Christians?

[Hopeful]

Do the apostles have the ministry of reconciliation or only Christ?

We all have that "ministry".

 

[Hopeful]

The church is a royal kingdom which demands obedience to hierarchical authority or there will be no order only chaos and spiritual anarchy

I don't serve a God without the power to keep things in check.
He has given the church pastors and teachers for the work of building His flock in grace, truth, and knowledge.
That is why it is still sinless.
That is why the gates of hell have not prevailed against it.

 

[Quantrill]

Never heard of spiritual or spirit baptism
What are you referring to?

That is not true. You have heard of it from me and others. See post #(113).

Only one true church founded by Christ all other are founded by men and are sects tradition of men

I said Peter is the head of the church on earth, Christ the head and king but no king administers his own kingdom and Christ ascended to heaven see more below

No James was in charge of the council but the pope approves it, that’s why a pope is never in charge of a council it’s not valid until he approves it by the authority Christ gave him matt 16:18 Christ builds hos church on peter

True. One true Church is founded by Christ. Of which the Roman church is just a part.

Yes, I know what you said. And you are wrong. Christ is the Head of the Church period. The Head is in Heaven and the Body is on earth. (Col. 1:18) (Eph. 1:22-23) (Eph. 5:23)

No. James gave the final ruling. Not Peter. (Acts 15:13-30) Peter is never the head of any church.

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[Quantrill]

Then you must submit and obey Christ and his ministers in his absence

Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

No problem having 'spiritual fathers' and those who look after our souls. It is just not to be equated with the Roman church. Or Peter. Or the Papacy.

The 'spiritual fathers' become those leaders in the Church possessed with the gifts of leadership, teaching, and pastor. See (1 Cor. 12-14) (Heb. 13:17)

And every born-again believer is a priest. (1 Peter 2:9)

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[GodsGrace]

No problem having 'spiritual fathers' and those who look after our souls. It is just not to be equated with the Roman church. Or Peter. Or the Papacy.

The 'spiritual fathers' become those leaders in the Church possessed with the gifts of leadership, teaching, and pastor. See (1 Cor. 12-14)

And every believer is a priest.

Quantrill

Quantrill
We are all a priest because we are responsible for our sins and a priest is not needed as in the OT. Jeremiah.

Why do you think James said to call an elder when someone is sick and their sins would be forgiven? James 5:14-15

 

[Quantrill]

Quantrill
We are all a priest because we are responsible for our sins and a priest is not needed as in the OT. Jeremiah.

Why do you think James said to call an elder when someone is sick and their sins would be forgiven? James 5:14-15

We are all priests because we do that which priests do. Not just with sins. (1 Peter 2:4-5) (1 Peter 2:9)

Just because there are leaders in the Church doesn't take away the priesthood of believers.

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[Bible]

Not familiar with the term "soul sleep", but it is as Martha told Jesus concerning Lazarus..."Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day." (John 11:24)

Scripturally speaking, it would seem that James was pre-eminent among the apostles.
Having the final word in Acts 15 and Acts 21.
Paul also refers to him prominently in Gal 1 and 2.

By assigning Peter some arguable title, you omit the actual "rock" the real church was founded on.
That being that Jesus was the Son of God.
As it is written..."He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." (Matt 16:15-18)

Applies only to Peter as “prince of the apostles”!

Peter and his successors are the Leader of the apostles and the head of the church until Christ returns!

Matt 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter,

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Lk 22:32 Christ prayed for Peter!

Peter is head of the church!

Isa 22:21-22 21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Matt 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 23:1 power and authority of the kingdom known in the keys and binding and loosing, Matt 21:43 kingdom shall be taken from you given to another who will bear fruit. (Peter the apostles in holy church Lk 22:29)

Matt 17:27 Jesus identified peter with himself.

Matt 16:17 Peter alone received revelation from the Father

Lk 22:32 Peter to strengthen his brethren (the apostles)

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep

Peter exercises his authority over the apostles and the church!

Acts 1:15
Acts 3:4
Acts 5:5 5:10
Acts 15:7

ONLY TO PETER CHRIST SAID: THOU ART PETER AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILT MY CHURCH, AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT!Matt 16:18

Peter is the prime minister, father, and head of the church on earth until Christ returns

 

[Bible]

We all have that "ministry".

Scripture please?

 

[Bible]

We all have that "ministry".

Spiritual anarchy

 

[Bible]

I don't serve a God without the power to keep things in check.
He has given the church pastors and teachers for the work of building His flock in grace, truth, and knowledge.
That is why it is still sinless.
That is why the gates of hell have not prevailed against it.

It is God who orders the church

 

[Bible]

No problem having 'spiritual fathers' and those who look after our souls. It is just not to be equated with the Roman church. Or Peter. Or the Papacy.

The 'spiritual fathers' become those leaders in the Church possessed with the gifts of leadership, teaching, and pastor. See (1 Cor. 12-14) (Heb. 13:17)

And every born-again believer is a priest. (1 Peter 2:9)

Quantrill

Yes but Christ is high priest according to the order of Melchizedek not the royal priesthood so there must be low priests in the ministerial order of Melchizedek that offer the perpetual propitious sacrifice of christ

 

[Quantrill]

Yes but Christ is high priest according to the order of Melchizedek not the royal priesthood so there must be low priests in the ministerial order of Melchizedek that offer the perpetual propitious sacrifice of christ

Of course. Christ is High Priest after the order of Melchizedek. And He is the Head of the Church. And we are priests after that same order, and are His Body, because Christ is of that order.

Christ was offered once, to never be offered again. (Heb. 10:10)

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[Bible]

Of course. Christ is High Priest after the order of Melchizedek. And He is the Head of the Church. And we are priests after that same order, and are His Body, because Christ is of that order.

Christ was offered once, to never be offered again. (Heb. 10:10)

Quantrill

No no no

1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light

We are of the royal priesthood

Christ and his priests are of the Melchizedek priesthood and there must be ministerial low priests in order for there to be a high priest over them

The perpetual sacrifice

Malachi 1:11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.

The propitiatory sacrifice of Christ is a pure offering or clean inflation aka an unbloody sacrifice

 

[GodsGrace]

We are all priests because we do that which priests do. Not just with sins. (1 Peter 2:4-5) (1 Peter 2:9)

Just because there are leaders in the Church doesn't take away the priesthood of believers.

Quantrill

Are we here just to argue?

I asked you why you think Jesus said to call the elders.....
Could you read James 5 and post what it means to you?

I'll comment on Peter tomorrow when at my computer.

 

[Hopeful]

Applies only to Peter as “prince of the apostles”!

Peter and his successors are the Leader of the apostles and the head of the church until Christ returns!

Matt 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter,

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Lk 22:32 Christ prayed for Peter!

Peter is head of the church!

Isa 22:21-22 21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Matt 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 23:1 power and authority of the kingdom known in the keys and binding and loosing, Matt 21:43 kingdom shall be taken from you given to another who will bear fruit. (Peter the apostles in holy church Lk 22:29)

Matt 17:27 Jesus identified peter with himself.

Matt 16:17 Peter alone received revelation from the Father

Lk 22:32 Peter to strengthen his brethren (the apostles)

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep

Peter exercises his authority over the apostles and the church!

Acts 1:15
Acts 3:4
Acts 5:5 5:10
Acts 15:7

ONLY TO PETER CHRIST SAID: THOU ART PETER AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILT MY CHURCH, AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT!Matt 16:18

Peter is the prime minister, father, and head of the church on earth until Christ returns

You worship a "hierarchy", while I worship God.

 

[Hopeful]

Scripture please?

(in answer to "Do the apostles have the ministry of reconciliation or only Christ?... answer..."We all have that ministry.")

Sure..."But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:" (1 Peter 3:15)
And..."Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;
Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;
Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness." (Rom 12:6-8)
And..."Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord." (Col 3:16)

 

[Hopeful]

Spiritual anarchy

What is the matter?
Has your doctrine kept you from telling others about the "ministry of reconciliation" while you idolize apostles?

 

[Hopeful]

It is God who orders the church

Yes indeed, and that is why there is no sin in His church.

 

[Hopeful]

No no no

1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light

We are of the royal priesthood

Christ and his priests are of the Melchizedek priesthood and there must be ministerial low priests in order for there to be a high priest over them

The perpetual sacrifice

Malachi 1:11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.

The propitiatory sacrifice of Christ is a pure offering or clean inflation aka an unbloody sacrifice

"low" priests".???
You are up to three levels of priesthood now.
Wanna try for four?
Sounds like "OT" regalia is the next topic up for discussion.

 

[Quantrill]

No no no

1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light

We are of the royal priesthood

Christ and his priests are of the Melchizedek priesthood and there must be ministerial low priests in order for there to be a high priest over them

The perpetual sacrifice

Malachi 1:11 For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.

The propitiatory sacrifice of Christ is a pure offering or clean inflation aka an unbloody sacrifice

I just said we are priests and of course Jesus is the High Priest and Head of the Church.

The offering of Christ was a one time offering.

(Heb. 10:10) "By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."

(Heb. 10:12) "But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;"

(Heb. 10:14) "For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."

Concerning (Mal. 1:11) there is nothing there to indicate a continual offering of Christ. The offering of incense did not speak to a sin offering. And this verse is addressing the time of the Millennium when Gentiles over all the earth will acknowledge God and Christ. See (Is. 60:6-7) that speaks to the same.

Just like all the Old Testament offerings and sacrifices did nothing to remove sin, so the offerings and sacrifices during the Millennium do nothing to remove sin. The Old Testament sacrifices look forward to Christ. The Millennial sacrifices look back to Christ's one true Sacrifice that removed sin once and for all.

Just like the Churches Lord's Supper today. It looks back. It doesn't recrucify Jesus.

Quantrill