What is the rule of faith for Christians?

[JLB]

The kingdom is the new covenant church our mother, holy mother church gal 4:26, his kingdom shall have no end Lk 1:32-33 he as king is mediator of the covenant)

No scripture in the Bible says the kingdom of God is the holy mother church.


Please stop promoting false Catholic Doctrine in this community.





JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

After we are in Christ by faith and baptism we are a new creation in grace but not saved, Matt 24:13 rom 13:11

Grace enables us to have both faith and works

Christian suffering!

Patience Implies suffering!

In order to bear fruit we must deny ourself, suffer, and die!

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Jn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Matthew 24:42
Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Verses of Christian suffering:

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Romans 5:4
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

1 Peter 2:20
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:



Rev 2: 19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

Rev 2:23 .....I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

More below

I've done my reading for the day.
And carpet bombing with verses doesn't help you much.
How about just answering my questions?
And please don't say you already have.
Thanks

 

[GodsGrace]

(The kingdom is the new covenant church our mother, holy mother church gal 4:26, his kingdom shall have no end Lk 1:32-33 he as king is mediator of the covenant)

(Only one true church founded by Christ on Peter matt 16:18-19 gates shall not prevail against Christ and his holy church, jn 10:16 one church)

(Matt 16:18 Matt 18:18 jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20) (kingdom or Christ conquered the pagan Roman Empire dan 2:44)

(Mary full of grace Lk 1:28 throne of grace Heb 4:16 and there are no dead saints Jn 11:25)

(The purpose of the rosary is Christian meditation on the life death and resurrection of Christ, vain repetition within one prayer is condemned not repeating prayers or praying scripture Christ prayed three times let this cup pass)

(There is no church bank, that is a nation, and a nation is permitted a post office a bank etc. )

(Religious leaders always had special garb, look at the Jewish high priest, why does it need to be in scripture, the spy have authority from Christ to decide these matters)

How is the church our mother?
Sarah is our "mother" because she represents freedom and liberty from the Law.

(Galatians 4)

 

[Bible]

That doesn't agree with Rom 6:6..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
or Gal 5:24..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
or 2 Cor 5:17..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
The catholics, according to just those three verses, have not destroyed the body of sin prior to rebirth, been crucified, or are "in Christ".
The "old things" have not passed away, but been taken along for the ride.

Every broken repentance from sin is a lie to God.
Liars cannot forge a relationship with God or with His Son Jesus Christ.

Want to quit sinning?

So the redemption of Christ restored us to a state equal with the garden before the fall
No you misunderstand grace

 

[Bible]

Christian suffering!

Patience Implies suffering!

In order to bear fruit we must deny ourself, suffer, and die!

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Jn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Matthew 24:42
Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Verses of Christian suffering:

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Romans 5:4
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

1 Peter 2:20
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

 

[Bible]

No scripture in the Bible says the kingdom of God is the holy mother church.


Please stop promoting false Catholic Doctrine in this community.





JLB

Only one!
One kingdom
On church
One new covenant
One vineyard
One household of faith
One new Jerusalem
All are the same and our mother
hence holy mother church

 

[Bible]

How is the church our mother?
Sarah is our "mother" because she represents freedom and liberty from the Law.

(Galatians 4)

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Sarah represents the new covenant but the church is the new covenant the new and heavenly Jerusalem
The new heaven and new earth

 

[Bible]

Catholicism is not a false religion.
It's the church that makes it possible for you to be a Christian today...since Christianity would have ceased to be had it not been for the universal, catholic, church - which is the original church that existed after Jesus.

Everyone is invited on this forum that does not break the forum rules...even atheists.

Because someone, or some church, does not agree with what we may deem to be "the truth" does not make them uninvited.

There are calvinists on this forum that are as far away from the doctrines of Jesus that could possibly exist.
They believe that God chooses who will be saved, as if He were some sadistic being in the sky that wishes to create humans so that some could spend eternity in hell.
I see that they are invited and are still here to post their beliefs and ideas - which most of Christianity does not find in existence anywhere in scripture.

There are churches that teach that God is like Santa Clause. Just name it and claim it. Even if reality does not seem to be what someone prayed for, they are taught not to trust reality but to trust that God will answer their prayers. And if He doesn't - well, they certainly must have sin in their life or are doing something wrong or are not even saved.

The Pope and Cardinals may not be found in scripture...but they certainly existed after Jesus returned home.
Every major part of the world in Jesus' area had a "pope". There were 5 of them and eventually they decided to give the title of Pope only to the leader in Rome since all the other regions turned to Rome for advice when there was a problem.

Every church has a hierarchy whether or not we protestants wish to admit it.

Every pastor in a denominational church answers to someone higher than himself.

I do wish everyone on this forum would study some history.
History of the Christian religion continued AFTER Jesus departed...it is not all contained in the N.T. but continues on.

If a person believes in the Christian Creed (of which there are several - pick any one) that makes the person be a Christian.

I don't agree with everything Bible posts and have told him why....but I believe he is a saved Christian and doing his best to explain
a church that too many Protestants do not take the time to understand.

Thank you
Even though you do have many misunderstandings
But thanks

 

[GodsGrace]

Thank you
Even though you do have many misunderstandings
But thanks

Hey Bible
Let me assure you that I have no misunderstandings about the Catholic Church.
None whatsoever.

I could even explain why the Catholic church considers itself to be the mother of believers.
There are several reasons, actually. One is that the church is the bride of Christ and so is mother to the "offspring".

Galatians 4:26 does not state that the church is our mother,,,,it cannot state that because the church that Jesus initiated did not exist as a church when Galatians was written. Christians were still worshipping with the Jews till about 70AD when they were banished from the synogogue,,,,Galatians was written in approx. 50AD so the term Mother Church did not exist yet.

However, I do maintain that the CC is the original church. Of course it was a totally different church at that time,,,unfortunately it changed over time.

 

[GodsGrace]

Only one!
One kingdom
On church
One new covenant
One vineyard
One household of faith
One new Jerusalem
All are the same and our mother
hence holy mother church

A covenant is not made between God and a church.
It's between God and man and our part is confirmed with God by one man at times
And is only told to one man at times.
Adam and Abraham confirmed a Covenant.
Jeremiah was told about a Covenant.

 

[Hopeful]

So the redemption of Christ restored us to a state equal with the garden before the fall
No you misunderstand grace

How can a man be equal to a garden?
Hah.
I know that must have been a typo, and you meant..."So the redemption of Christ restored us to a state equal to when we were in the garden, before the fall."
The answer is YES.
As the reborn are as clean as can be, we can walk with God without defiled consciences now...thanks be to God.

 

[Hopeful]

Galatians 4:26 does not state that the church is our mother,,,,it cannot state that because the church that Jesus initiated did not exist as a church when Galatians was written.

I beg to differ.
The original church was instituted on the day of Pentecost when like minded believers received the gift of the Holy Ghost.
In Eph 3:21 it is called "the church by Christ Jesus".

However, I do maintain that the CC is the original church. Of course it was a totally different church at that time,,,unfortunately it changed over time.

How can it be the original church when the gates of hell have so very much prevailed against it?

 

[Quantrill]


Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”

John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)

John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)

John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism / water)

John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.

Born again means Baptismal regeneration!

Spirit baptismal regeneration.

Again, you confuse water baptism with Spirit baptism.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Only one church jn 10;16

Peter is head of the church on earth by Christ acts 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

Yes, only one Church. And the Roman Church is not it. It is only part of it.

Peter is not the Head of the Church. Christ is. (Eph. 1:22) (Col. 1:18)

In (Acts 15:7) Peter was just a witness to the work of the Holy Spirit. It was James whose decision was final. (Acts 15:13-30)

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

They may be corrupt as you say but Christ still commanded their authority to be obeyed and this authority passed to Peter and the apostles

The authority certainly passed to the apostle's of whom Peter is one. And after Pentecost, it passed to all believers in the exercise of their individual priesthood.

Quantrill

Does Christ’s kingship entail the entire world, all men, Christ having all power and authority?

As I said, of course Christ is King. But the Churches relationship to Him is as a wife to a husband. Israel's relationship to Christ is as King and Messiah.

Quantrill

 

[Bible]

Hey Bible
Let me assure you that I have no misunderstandings about the Catholic Church.
None whatsoever.

I could even explain why the Catholic church considers itself to be the mother of believers.
There are several reasons, actually. One is that the church is the bride of Christ and so is mother to the "offspring".

Galatians 4:26 does not state that the church is our mother,,,,it cannot state that because the church that Jesus initiated did not exist as a church when Galatians was written. Christians were still worshipping with the Jews till about 70AD when they were banished from the synogogue,,,,Galatians was written in approx. 50AD so the term Mother Church did not exist yet.

However, I do maintain that the CC is the original church. Of course it was a totally different church at that time,,,unfortunately it changed over time.

There is only one church (the new Jerusalem our mother) founded by Christ on Peter matt 16:18 and the apostles Matt 18:18 having the same mission power and authority as Christ John 20:21-23 one church Jn 16:10

If a person believes in the Christian Creed (of which there are several - pick any one) that makes the person be a Christian.
A man who believes is a catechumen not a Christian
A Christian require faith and the sacraments Mk 16:16 acts 2:38-39 acts 8:36-38 1 pet 3:20-21

 

[Bible]

A covenant is not made between God and a church.
It's between God and man and our part is confirmed with God by one man at times
And is only told to one man at times.
Adam and Abraham confirmed a Covenant.
Jeremiah was told about a Covenant.

The king, the shepherd, the mediator are the same, the kingdom, the church, the covenant are the same

Major covenants!

God initiated each covenant and the mediator always remains on earth mediating the covenant except for Christ who made Peter His personal representative and vicar! (Matt 16:18)

Adam
(Marriage covenant)

Noah
(Family covenant)

Abraham
(Tribal covenant)

Moses:
(National covenant)

Jesus Christ:
(Universal covenant)

New and eternal covenant founded by Jesus Christ! Matt 16:18

Universal (Catholic)
World universal

Lk 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. ( catholic universal)

Lk 2:31 prepared before the face of all (catholic) people

Jn 1:29 lamb of God who takes way the sins of the world

Jn 3:16 for God so loved the world

1 Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Lk 2: 10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. (All people universal)

1 Tim 2:5 one mediator

Jn 10:16 One new covenant church

 

[Bible]

How can a man be equal to a garden?
Hah.
I know that must have been a typo, and you meant..."So the redemption of Christ restored us to a state equal to when we were in the garden, before the fall."
The answer is YES.
As the reborn are as clean as can be, we can walk with God without defiled consciences now...thanks be to God.

Yes that’s what I meant
Then why do we still have to die?

 

[Bible]

How can a man be equal to a garden?
Hah.
I know that must have been a typo, and you meant..."So the redemption of Christ restored us to a state equal to when we were in the garden, before the fall."
The answer is YES.
As the reborn are as clean as can be, we can walk with God without defiled consciences now...thanks be to God.

Why do we still have to suffer?


Christian suffering!

Patience Implies suffering!

In order to bear fruit we must deny ourself, suffer, and die!

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Jn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Matthew 24:42
Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Verses of Christian suffering:

Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 12:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Romans 5:4
And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

2 Tim 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

James 1:2-8
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

1 Peter 2:20
For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

 

[Bible]

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

(Redemption is not Salvation)
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.




1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)
The holy church is the ark of grace and salvation!